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[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Design Votes:
.305 Reseph Akar Series 1 Service Rifle (2): Thanik, Taricus
Samir Mark 1 Rifle (1): Lightforger
Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle (2): Mandemon, Zanzetkuken
Revision Votes:
Samir Blastshell (1): Lightforger
Research Credit / Team Votes:
Use Research Credit on .305 Reseph Akar S1SR (2): Thanik, Taricus
Use Research Credit on Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle: (2) Mandemon, Zanzetkuken

Repeating rifles are an utterly massive force multiplier.  Even if we get a 5 or so to 1 firing rate, you can take out a hell of a lot of enemies in that time.

Edit: also, revolver mechanisms were found back to the 1580s, while bolt actions were made in the 1820s.  Pirate's confirmed in the discord one of these rifles is easier than the other, and based on that, it is likelier to be the Revolver mechanism Carrera.

[Thanik]

Design Votes:
.305 Reseph Akar Series 1 Service Rifle (2): Thanik, Taricus
Samir Mark 1 Rifle (1): Lightforger
Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle (2): Mandemon, Zanzetkuken
Revision Votes:
Samir Blastshell (1): Lightforger
Research Credit / Team Votes:
Use Research Credit on .305 Reseph Akar S1SR (2): Thanik, Taricus
Use Research Credit on Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle: (2) Mandemon, Zanzetkuken

Repeating rifles are an utterly massive force multiplier.  Even if we get a 5 or so to 1 firing rate, you can take out a hell of a lot of enemies in that time.

Edit: also, revolver mechanisms were found back to the 1580s, while bolt actions were made in the 1820s.  Pirate's confirmed in the discord one of these rifles is easier than the other, and based on that, it is likelier to be the Revolver mechanism Carrera.

Status update, after a long debate Joe confirmed both designs are Very Hard (with the Reseph being barely VH edging towards impossible and the Cap being just VH. With that in mind, I think the high risk - high reward of the Reseph is more worth the research credit than the Carrera, which we can get easily when we get percussion caps (which are the hardest part of the design).

[Detoxicated]

Design Votes:
.305 Reseph Akar Series 1 Service Rifle (2): Thanik, Taricus
Samir Mark 1 Rifle (1): Lightforger
Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle (3): Mandemon, Zanzetkuken, Detoxicated
Revision Votes:
Samir Blastshell (1): Lightforger
Research Credit / Team Votes:
Use Research Credit on .305 Reseph Akar S1SR (2): Thanik, Taricus
Use Research Credit on Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle: (3) Mandemon, Zanzetkuken, Detoxicated

[Mandemon]

Right, so to make a case for Carrera, right now the warfare is focused around blocks of units moving around and shooting each others. Carrera has longer range than other existing weapons, so it can fire sooner and it has higher fire rate. We can also easily branch of sidearms simply by scaling down the rifle to a single-hand revolver. This gives us a repeating rifle and a sidearm without having to first spend a design on bolt-action, then something to make a clip and then revision to add that clip. That is at least 2 designs and 1 revisions, at least.

Carrera offers all that and it makes designing future rifles significantly easier without risking falling into Impossible category. We can also get a side-arm as a revision, instead of spending yet another design on it. Considering warfare currently, being able to kill the enemy and his 5 friends is far, far more effective than being able to put a pretty little headshot on someone at slightly longer range... assuming the shooters skills are up to the task anyway.

[Thanik]

Right, so to make a case for Carrera, right now the warfare is focused around blocks of units moving around and shooting each others. Carrera has longer range than other existing weapons, so it can fire sooner and it has higher fire rate. We can also easily branch of sidearms simply by scaling down the rifle to a single-hand revolver. This gives us a repeating rifle and a sidearm without having to first spend a design on bolt-action, then something to make a clip and then revision to add that clip. That is at least 2 designs and 1 revisions, at least.

Carrera offers all that and it makes designing future rifles significantly easier without risking falling into Impossible category. We can also get a side-arm as a revision, instead of spending yet another design on it. Considering warfare currently, being able to kill the enemy and his 5 friends is far, far more effective than being able to put a pretty little headshot on someone at slightly longer range... assuming the shooters skills are up to the task anyway.

We've been over this in the discord and I don't feel like re-debating everything here. It's literally just a matter of 'do we want the sniper first or the revolver rifle (which we'll replace with a semi-auto with a magazine anyways soon enough).

Also. "Without risking to fall into Impossible category." Yeah, no, you already know that's not happening and why you put that there - I have no idea. The myth that you'll need 2 designs and a revision for the Reseph is false, as it is based on the assumption that the goal behind the Reseph Akar is to quickly replace it with a semi-auto rifle in the same role, which is not the goal behind the rifle. Instead, the goal is to make a long-term bolt-action sniper rifle with excellent range, accuracy and stopping power which we can modify later on if needed.

[Mandemon]

I am not trying to debate matter here (We are not going to convince each others), I am making case for others.

[Taricus]

I think there's one true, defiuning arguement against the Carrera; It's ain't Nafuni. That, and a revolver rifle would need rimmed ammunition meaning we can't adapt it for a proper bolt action rifle.

[Light forger]

Design Votes:
.305 Reseph Akar Series 1 Service Rifle (3): Thanik, Taricus, Lightforger
Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle (3): Mandemon, Zanzetkuken, Detoxicated
Research Credit / Team Votes:
Use Research Credit on .305 Reseph Akar S1SR (3): Thanik, Taricus, Lightforger
Use Research Credit on Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle: (3) Mandemon, Zanzetkuken, Detoxicated

Samir Mark 1 Precision Rifle
The mark 1 precision rifle is a new falling breech block, cased round rifle design to pick off the enemy at long range. The breech block is designed to be as simple as possible and is only made up of two parts, the block itself and a free floating firing pin. In order to operate the gun the user needs to cock the hammer and lift up on a lever located on the side of the gun. Doing so drops the breech block and if the lever is pulled by an addition few degrees pushes the spent case out of the breech. Afterwards the user just needs to place a round in the breech and slam the lever back down, at which point he is ready to shoot. Otherwise the weapon borrows most of it's elements from the spark rifle with the largest change being the hammer is lowered and center in order to hit the firing pin.  The round used is 'borrow' from the Respeh Akar. While mark 1 doesn't really have any safety features the breech design means the hammer can't strike the firing pin unless it's in battery and, the hammer travel is too short to hit it when the block is down.

The falling breech block is not only much simpler then a bolt-action but, can also be reused for artillery down the road.

[Detoxicated]

Scarab plague grenade
These small iron balls are filled with gunpowder and have a similar fuse system as our cannons. The small scarab shaped explosives can be lit and thrown at enemies. Upon reaching the fuses end the small bomb explodes violently and bits of its metal casing flies through the air as dangerous shrapnel.

[Talion]

Design Votes:
.305 Reseph Akar Series 1 Service Rifle (4): Thanik, Taricus, Lightforger, Talion
Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle (3): Mandemon, Zanzetkuken, Detoxicated
Research Credit / Team Votes:
Use Research Credit on .305 Reseph Akar S1SR (4): Thanik, Taricus, Lightforger, Talion
Use Research Credit on Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle: (3) Mandemon, Zanzetkuken, Detoxicated

[Funk]

Design Votes:
Crocodile vest (0):
.305 Reseph Akar Series 1 Service Rifle (4): Thanik, Taricus, Lightforger, Talion
Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle (4): Mandemon, Zanzetkuken, Detoxicated, Funk
Research Credit / Team Votes:
Use Research Credit on .305 Reseph Akar S1SR (4): Thanik, Taricus, Lightforger, Talion
Use Research Credit on Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle: (4) Mandemon, Zanzetkuken, Detoxicated, Funk

Fixed the vote box and changed my vote.
I'm not sold on a better rifle, we're quicky reaching the point of dimising retrurns so next turn we should try some new weapon.

[Light forger]

Bleh, changing to the .45 to break the stalemate, either way we are going to have to redesign the rifle once we have smokeless powder.

Design Votes:
Crocodile vest (0):
.305 Reseph Akar Series 1 Service Rifle (3): Thanik, Taricus, Talion
Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle (5): Mandemon, Zanzetkuken, Detoxicated, Funk, Lightforger
Research Credit / Team Votes:
Use Research Credit on .305 Reseph Akar S1SR (3): Thanik, Taricus, Talion
Use Research Credit on Carrera Series 1 Model 1 Repeating Rifle: (5) Mandemon, Zanzetkuken, Detoxicated, Funk, Lightforger

[Taricus]

We haven't hit diminishing returns on rifles until we hit assault rifles. Prior to that, there's still plenty of room to develop rifles. A revolver rifle isn't going to improve our theoriticals of firearm design as much as the Reseph will and we'd still need to design a new round for a proper bolt-action too.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

We haven't hit diminishing returns on rifles until we hit assault rifles. Prior to that, there's still plenty of room to develop rifles. A revolver rifle isn't going to improve our theoriticals of firearm design as much as the Reseph will and we'd still need to design a new round for a proper bolt-action too.

Pirate has said that no matter which we go for, the other will be normal next turn, and this one allows for us to get a higher rate of fire standard issue rifle for our soldiers (original version of the Mosin had a 5/minute while the Colt Repeating rifle had a 20/minute, the latter while not using all-in-one cartridges like the Carrera uses).  In the revision, we can then turn this into a pistol by cutting the barrel down and modifying the grip/stock, giving us a sidearm.  Next turn we could use a design on the Reseph at its lower difficulty with the addition of a scope to give us a good sniper rifle for the long term.  Maybe burn the revision that turn on some smokeless powder if we want to keep on infantry, or something like canister shot for the cannons if we decide to do something else.

[Taricus]

Except this turn we need to use the revision to make explosive shells for the artillery, otherwise our rifled guns aren't going to be effective against enemy personnel.