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[Starver]

Starver has had three days to scum hunt the old fashioned way and so far has not done so, but has posted a whole lot of stuff on game mechanics. While that's well and good, it needs to be coupled with scum hunting.

Any questions?

It's nothing but mechanics. Anybody can have any Action (caveat: SKs starting with an additional action with guaranteed Kill, as noted), regardless of alignment, and since then my own original skill has been added to, both swapped out for a different pair, further swapping done upon me, then by me, then twice more upon me. And similarly has all but the grojp mafiakill been likely switcherooed out the wahoo, for everybody.

Old-fashioned scum-hunting just doesn't cut it. For a couple of you, at least, I know there's experience enough to act non-scummy plus use non-scum actions, both day and night whilst professionally guiding the scumkill in an independent manner. Alibis for everyone means alibis for no-one... We don't even know if Leaf was scumkilled, if the scumkill was tried that night, if the scumkill was blocked that night, etc. Not for certain. It could easily have been SKish Cody exploding, or A N Other deciding there was a good non-scum reason to aim a non-scum kill at Leaf. (Though, given the limited interactions Leaf had, I don't see that latter being true.)

Hence my misplaced excitement leading to my sole vote so far. I don't vote on whims (polar opposite to Tir, in this, but happy for Tir to scattergun if I also get opportunity to see the same response-tells (as well as firer-tells from Tir!) just by watching.


That said, I had a presumed track of presumed actions (what information has been given), a la

I'm finding it curious on how people haven't tracked the day abilities (I haven't due to busy >_>) but it's a supplement for scumhunting too :I

...which I lost to the data-monster under my bed, and it's one of the things I'm rebuilding, but it is now secondary to my best scumhunting tracking record, also being rebuilt from loss, because (as mentioned) anybody can use any skills they want at any time (especially non-destructive ones, like Swap) without being necessarily scummy.

I appreciate that the two people who have now tried to Swap out that which I swapped from King (the first being 4mask or someone else downstream - please feel free to suggest its onward travel, 4mask/Silth, if you want to - , the second just publicly acknowledged to be Mooney) may in fact be the two (or two of the) Mafia, trying to get their mits upon that which King claimed and that I claimed I took off of King, if they think it's useful. It is also possible that like myself, one/both of those Swappers were doing this for Townie reasons.

I am rebuilding my own case-theory, though. I have a pattern of suspicion, but I'm only 75% through it (generously) and not yet precluded other patterns than one particular idea that have in mind, nor fully confirmed that the pattern holds.

Finally, on this reply (before I perhaps head back again to my tab placeholding the historic moment representing where I am in my renewed review of the thread) I'm not actually  averse to being voted for (for good reasons or ill-meant ones), and I can even see value to being killed off to confirm my honesty in my analysis. A classic vintage WIFOM, I know, but it's up to you whether you think it may be a palattable accompaniment or merely corked.

[Tiruin]

Hey, guys. I think i found out who stole my ability.
Starver had the swap ability as well. I tried swapping with him, and i got my swap ability boomeranging back.
annihilate

To quote me, from earlier (two pages back, seem to have not been ncluded the quote ref in my paste buffer, sorry!):

By the way, I presume its the Swap that went to King and then to 4mask that just came back to me (via unknown 4th/5thmetc parties, or not?). It's possible someone wanted to test my claim like I tested King's. Or maybe someone wanted the Kill Action.  Putting that out there. (They missed, whatever the idea, and that someone now newly has the "Twice per night you can swap a copy of this ability with an ability belonging to everyone targeting you. Action: Swap.", instead,.)  FYI. It's there for you to work on if I don't play this good enough from this point on.

I used Swap on King, today, and have been unable to use any other day-skill since.

ROFLed when I found someone had tried to Swap with me and only ended up Swapping with my identical Swap, which remains/becomes unusable for both of us...

Why the fish did you use Swap on King today when I did it yesterday -.-
And if you're saying 'identical swap', and to presume it's what you wrote there--that's exactly what I got from kingawsume on Day 2, wherein he referenced another ability which was supported by Maximum Spin. Who was stupidly lynched.

You and juicebox I consider likely to be town based on your strong scum hunting.

How did juicebox even do any strong scumhunting?

PPE AUGH BIG POST AND FINALLY ACTIVITY FROM YOU GUYS.
*Tiruin flops to sleep.

[NJW2000]

NJW2000: Why weren't you voting at the end of Day 2?

Max was the lynch I was most in favour of, so I wasn't voting anyone else, but I couldn't prove his actions were much more than unhelpful (from my perspective) town. I didn't have a strong enough basis on which to justifiably vote him, though if it came down to a choice between him and someone else, I'd have tiebroken.


I wonder if the asterisks at the end of day2 mean anything. Unlikely.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Vote Count
*Tiruin
MoonyTheHuman - [1] Shakerag
Fallacy of Urist
NJW2000
Starver
*Maximum Spin - [3] FallacyofUrist, juicebox, kingawsume,
Shakerag
4maskwolf
kingawsume
Persus13
juicebox  - [2] Tiruin, Maximum Spin
No lynch
Not voting: MoonyTheHuman, NJW2000, Starver, 4maskwolf, Persus13

re posting more I can't for a few days. I have a rather busy week.

[Starver]

Why the fish did you use Swap on King today when I did it yesterday -.-

I had my reasons to do what I did (or claim to do what I did, because you'll obviously also be considering if I'm colluding with King to obfuscate an unwise claim, 'getting in there first') for reasons topical to the moment I made the decision. Your prior Swap with King eirher did not change things or set up the situation that I then claimed I regchanged.

And if you're saying 'identical swap', and to presume it's what you wrote there--that's exactly what I got from kingawsume on Day 2, wherein he referenced another ability which was supported by Maximum Spin. Who was stupidly lynched.

I just put it a different way to that which Moony said, except that I said was somewhat less vague.

And the Swap passing through King is, again, a prior to the current day's Swapping. I don't know if public information is enough to suggest there is a direct line of passage between those two, though by now I'm sure I've probably had yours, at least once, and may or may not currently possess it...  It's TBD.

(@NJW: I believe the asterisks indicate "used their extend", though ISTR one other person asked to use their extend today. I forget who, without adding yet another back-tracking tab to my browser.)

[MoonyTheHuman]

Ah, that explains it. Haha.
No Vote!

[kingawsume]

NJW, the asterisks represent having used a personal 24 hour extend.

[Shakerag]

Geh.  Moony still seems worthless (especially about the alignment change thing), but is likely town due to the mass block.


Persus13:  Are you really voting FoU just because he's being lazy?

[Silthuri]

SILTHURI! LONG TIME NO SEE! NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN!

TIRU HAI!! <3 <3

Just going to say this is my first Bay12 mafia game in...a year and a half after doing a stupid misplay that's the primary reason I've stayed away from mafia for so long. I've been playing ToS and in person mafia, but my grasp of the Bay12 meta is going to be lacking. Not asking for special treatment, but plz be gentle. I did a skim of the game thus far and have spent most of the time trying to wrap my head around these shenanigans.

Also this is a shitstorm. Swaps, swaps and more swaps. My brain hurts.
FoU

The entire "should you useless night power or not useless night power" thing is entirely academic to me, my role is entirely passive.  That being said, I guess target me if you want hilarity to happen to someone else.

Silthuri, was 4maskwolf targeted with an action day 1(that you know of)? Did anybody target 4maskwolf day 1? I'm considering the possibility that my role change day 1 was caused by 4maskwolf's(and now your) passive ability.

Yes, I believe 4mask was targeted D1 by a swap. It took away the passive ability, which was that if someone targeted him, a random person would be morphed into their role. That was taken away and replaced with a day swap ability. I no longer have the passive ability.

Silthuri: Why do you think 4maskwolf wasn't voting at the end of Day 2?

I'd probably say it was due to his inactivity tbh.
Starver

I appreciate that the two people who have now tried to Swap out that which I swapped from King (the first being 4mask or someone else downstream - please feel free to suggest its onward travel, 4mask/Silth, if you want to - , the second just publicly acknowledged to be Mooney) may in fact be the two (or two of the) Mafia, trying to get their mits upon that which King claimed and that I claimed I took off of King, if they think it's useful. It is also possible that like myself, one/both of those Swappers were doing this for Townie reasons.

4mask did swap with you last night(?) and got a swap ability out of it. Not sure if it's what you took from king, but I did get a swap action from you.
King: Why did you immediately claim that you had a kill ability, given all the swapping power in the game? You're just asking for it to be stolen by the bad guys. It is possible I missed you saying anything about it, but do you still have it? I'd also like to know how you got it. I would say it's not necessarily indicative of a SK, but the OP says that the SK is guaranteed to start with a kill ability, which probably means that the SK doesn't have a unswappable kill ability like the mafia.

Also, 4mask hadn't used the "appear as town" role. Also, I would think that having the roles "procedurally generated" means that you can't rely on the role itself to tell the alignment because it's completely random. I can say, though, that that role started with 4mask as possibly a gift from the Santa thing on the first night.

[kingawsume]

King: Why did you immediately claim that you had a kill ability, given all the swapping power in the game? You're just asking for it to be stolen by the bad guys. It is possible I missed you saying anything about it, but do you still have it? I'd also like to know how you got it. I would say it's not necessarily indicative of a SK, but the OP says that the SK is guaranteed to start with a kill ability, which probably means that the SK doesn't have a unswappable kill ability like the mafia.

No, I do not have it; it was swapped early D3.
It getting stolen would mean death to me and a random other individual. Whether through the ability or through my very suspicious acting.
I can get it back, potentially. If they target me with it.

[Persus13]

NJW2000, Starver, Persus13: Why weren't you voting at the end of Day 2?

I had just replaced in and wasn't confident enough to make a vote yet.

Persus13:  Are you really voting FoU just because he's being lazy?

Well, it worked. But you're right if you're implying I should find somewhere else to park my vote.

Alright. I'm not sure about the use of probability to predict mafia numbers, assuming there's 3-4 seems more reliable, but that's not a key concern anyway.

Ever since I played two games where there were two competing mafia teams, or 5 SKs and no mafia, I stopped trying to figure out the size of the mafia team unless it was critical.

Persus13, who do you think is scum?

Kingaswume is suspicious, but I don't think he'd proclaim his kill ability if he was mafia. Juicebox needs to post more. \

Shakerag feels different, I need to go through his posts to read why. Starver also seems to be focused a lot on the mechanics, which is fine, but he's exclusively focusing on it, which is concerning.

[Long table of stuff]

Why did you feel the need to post this? How is this useful at all especially with the completely arbitrary probabilities? Does this tell you anything about who the scum are?

Tiruin: Who should be lynched instead of the new players?

Juicebox: You posted a big post with reads earlier. Any of them changed?

[Silthuri]

King: Why did you immediately claim that you had a kill ability, given all the swapping power in the game? You're just asking for it to be stolen by the bad guys. It is possible I missed you saying anything about it, but do you still have it? I'd also like to know how you got it. I would say it's not necessarily indicative of a SK, but the OP says that the SK is guaranteed to start with a kill ability, which probably means that the SK doesn't have a unswappable kill ability like the mafia.

No, I do not have it; it was swapped early D3.
It getting stolen would mean death to me and a random other individual. Whether through the ability or through my very suspicious acting.
I can get it back, potentially. If they target me with it.

Okay, care to answer the other questions I posed? Namely how did you obtain the ability and why did you claim to have the kill in the first place.

[Starver]

NJW2000, Starver, Persus13: Why weren't you voting at the end of Day 2?

Missed this, first time past.

At its simplest, and this applies in general, I don't vote just for the sake of it. If my vote doesn't matter, especially.

Which is not to say I don't appreciate those who do otherwise. There are roles for both types. All types, in fact.

[Tiruin]

King: Why did you immediately claim that you had a kill ability, given all the swapping power in the game? You're just asking for it to be stolen by the bad guys. It is possible I missed you saying anything about it, but do you still have it? I'd also like to know how you got it. I would say it's not necessarily indicative of a SK, but the OP says that the SK is guaranteed to start with a kill ability, which probably means that the SK doesn't have a unswappable kill ability like the mafia.

No, I do not have it; it was swapped early D3.
It getting stolen would mean death to me and a random other individual. Whether through the ability or through my very suspicious acting.
I can get it back, potentially. If they target me with it.

Okay, care to answer the other questions I posed? Namely how did you obtain the ability and why did you claim to have the kill in the first place.

I'm pretty serious about that 'tally up those claims as scumhunting' thing said earlier that I'm too busy to do >_<

Because HOW DID ANYONE swap onto you, a kill ability that you're not using on people you suspect and instead hold it up in public like a carnivorous fishie? On Day 3.

[notquitethere]

END OF DAY 3

Having been unable to reach an accord, the day ends almost without anyone been kicked from the server. The players are congratulating themselves on their practice of tolerance and civility, when two of their number glitch out, turn blue, and crackle from existence, and a last second recount boots Starver.


*Tiruin
MoonyTheHuman
*Shakerag
FallacyofUrist - [1] - Persus13
NJW2000
Starver - [2] - NJW2000, FallacyofUrist
Silthuri - [1] - kingawsume
kingawsume
Persus13
juicebox - [1] - Tiruin
No lynch
Not voting: MoonyTheHuman, juicebox, Silthuri, Starver, Shakerag

Starver was lynched. Starver was town.

Spoiler: Starver (click to show/hide)

Mild Azwolg
Twice per night you can poison your target. Action: Poison

Once per day you can swap this ability with an ability belonging to your target. Action: Swap

Once per night you can delay the actions of your target until the end of the following night. Action: Delay.

Alignment: Town. 

Tiruin died of poisoning. She was town.

Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)

Fallacious Plutonium
Twice per night you can poison your target. Action: Poison.

Twice per night you can swap a copy of this ability with an ability belonging to everyone targeting you. Action: Swap

Alignment: Town

FallacyofUrist died of poisoning. FallacyofUrist was a serial killer.

Spoiler: FallacyofUrist (click to show/hide)

Anti Urist
Once per night you can give a random ability to everyone who is not targeting a random person targeting your target. Action: Gift.

Twice per night you can swap a copy of this ability with an ability belonging to everyone targeting you. Action: Swap.

Alignment: Serial Killer

NIGHT 3 BEGINS

[notquitethere]

END OF NIGHT 3

MoonytheHuman logs back into the server to find the Moony profile pic had been replaced with an image of the sun and their character flung into the fiery ball shining down on the rest of the game world.

Moony was killed. Moony was town.

Spoiler: MoonytheHuman (click to show/hide)

Friendly Spy
Once per day you can swap this ability with an ability belonging to your target. Action: Swap

If someone targets you, anyone else targeting you will morph into your role.

Alignment: Town

DAY 4 BEGINS

*Shakerag
NJW2000
Silthuri
kingawsume
Persus13
juicebox
No lynch

Hammer 4. Day ends Wednesday evening GMT if no one hammers.