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[Tiruin]

I've played several mafia games here already, most recently the last Supernatural. As for why I'm voting Maximum Spin, See here:

Also:

Maximum Spin honestly I'm starting to agree with Shakerag now. We need you out of the way so we can actually scumhunt.

@shakerag I intended to vote, however I fell asleep and didn't wake up until after the round was over

Applying this logic to Max is certainly tempting (I admit I have a bit), but this is a very noncommital way of lynching someone, eh? You don't even have to say why you thought they were scum. Especially with the "This is Shakes' idea" bit. And how it gets you off scumhunting until we lynch Max...

My reasoning for voting Max at that time wasn't that he seemed particularly scummy, it's that he was drawing a lot of attention to himself and not playing in a way that helped town. However the fact that he's lied several times over seems quite scummy to me, so I feel justified in leaving my vote on him

Weak reasoning. People are pretty much voting Maximum Spin either because 'BANDWAGON', or essentially two dimensional scumhunting.

And yet you don't even bother to respond to me.

I mean out of everything about Maximum Spin, you have a TON OF CONTENT FROM EVERYONE ELSE. What will you bloody do after he's dead, for one? You've little dialogue to others, and less posts in comparison. But the same applies to those VOTING FOR HIM on such weak and tasteless reasoning.

Everyone: Give your bloody reads on everyone else because I am tired of this brevity.

Nobody considers Maximum's dialogue in their 'scumhunting' when they vote him, it appears. I don't consider him as scum.

Leaning Town:
- Tiruin - Heeey. Judge me as you will.
- TheDarkStar - Targeted him N1 with a Tracker; He targeted NOBODY. He is, at least, not scum-killer. Problem is his replacement being MoonyTheHuman, he'd be reading iffy if not for this given all his 2 posts are nothing to anyone, and a IOU-of-posting-later with a blatant bandwagon push; not necessarily scummy by itself but its lacking when his follow up posts aren't...as contentful as his common posts.
- Maximum Spin - Given my dialogue and the content of his posts, I'm reading him as this, here. NOBODY BOTHERED TO QUESTION ME ABOUT IT AT ALL, and what others do IF THEY VOTED HIM is either poke him based on 'lying' WITHOUT QUOTING LITERALLY ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT HE DOES AND ITS CORRELATION, or ignore him entirely.
- Leafsnail - This dude, given all of D1, was who I guessed was particularly someone of mention, and a high-value target (and he got targeted N1 -_- by scum); beforehand his posts however were something of value--it continued for the later time, instead of the SUPERFICIALITY of the votes of today. Which is why I targeted him and TDS, both people who could really ride the scumwave if scum in a large player game. He targeted ME N1. And then I got my Tracker power stolen on D2; UNCLAIMED.
- 4maskwolf - Hasn't posted much, and there's not much I'm seeing in his posts than reactivity in all his 11 posts as of this moment. He however bothered to talk to the people that were taking the limelight of the day, and engaged in dialogue regarding the night.
- BlackHeartKabal [Replacement = ] - Only had 4 posts, exited with backlash of stupid spitefulness. Still don't see him as presumable scum given what little content is in his 4 posts--what he put in it. The spitefulness is more his learned behavior and moreso his 'thing'.

Uncertain:
- Fallacy of Urist - Seems to vote on essentials--but with lacking depth when he puts his vote. At the current 11/13, it could be better off in a RVS stage, but there's partial attention towards others instead of the two dimensional-ness I'm seeing in consideration with people's votes at the moment. Currently, there's even open bandwagoning and spurious retort, and that's all the content there is of SOME people, like MoonyTheHuman.
- NJW2000 - Post-based but uncertain--several things he says can be said within the perspective of scum.
- Starver - Post-based--several things he says can be said within the perspective of scum. But him and NJW both give some credence within their posts.
- Shakerag - Said stuff about gifts. His whole D1 content was focused on Night actions. His D2 actions, however, are more responses towards those who he sees as scummy--and there's also personal RL stuff in between which I'd like to PM him about v: but otherwise, his responses have been reactive and observational, but have also been poking people.
- juicebox - I'm voting him right now. The essence of his posts are very curious. He even mentioned that 'it's because of me [Tiruin] that his Night action failed' when I have nothing in consideration even after rolling the random generator a lot about anything like that. :v And then his communication cuts off to brevity and not much towards the people nudging him.
- kingawsume - I considered him alongside Maximum Spin D1, pretty much in the gray but leaning towny considering his actions (and that what he did was the complete opposite of trying to lay helpfully low considering how he saw 'votes and the lynch', and/or he's newbie scum with lacking communication with his team). Otherwise how D2 is going, I'm not seeing much in terms of foresight and follow-ups to other people, instead of 'voting this guy and letting it be'.

NQT: CAN WE GET THE NAMES OF THE REPLACEMENTS IN THE OP AND WHO THEY ARE REPLACING?! THANK YOU!
Also we could do a votecount whenever you get to posting.

[FallacyofUrist]

Oh yeah, also: not a fact. I said, truthfully, that I only had one action and that, if I was supposed to have had two, something went wrong.

You said you didn't get an action at all at first, not that you got one and then had it stolen.

[Tiruin]

Oh yeah, also: not a fact. I said, truthfully, that I only had one action and that, if I was supposed to have had two, something went wrong.

You said you didn't get an action at all at first, not that you got one and then had it stolen.

So how does that make him scum when what he said also pushes another person's claim?

[Maximum Spin]

You said you didn't get an action at all at first, not that you got one and then had it stolen.

Again, I said that I didn't have two actions, which was true. I also said that if the gift ability was supposed to lead me to have two actions, it must have missed me. I do not know whether I received an action from the gift at all, only what actions I had at various times.

[notquitethere]

To kick, to boot, to purge, to ban... so many ways to say the same thing: exile for the purported good of the community...

Vote Count
*Tiruin
MoonyTheHuman - [2] Persus13, Shakerag
Fallacy of Urist
NJW2000
Starver
*Maximum Spin - [4] FallacyofUrist, juicebox, kingawsume, MoonyTheHuman
Shakerag
4maskwolf
kingawsume
Persus13
juicebox  - [2] Tiruin, Maximum Spin
No lynch

Hammer: 6. Day ends 3rd Nov 2.30am GMT, or ideally at hammer.

[Tiruin]

Can we, y'know, not have Maximum Spin lynched on such soft and weak a case? It's held up by string and yarn with no depth or definition deeper than assumption -.-
Other than people NOT giving reads, there's also a lack of COMPARISON on votes.

MTH, Kingawsume, and you other bandwagon spree voters: What makes Maximum Spin an actual better target for your vote than anyone else here?

Same for Shakerag and Persus, but replace the person with MTH and such.

[Maximum Spin]

I'm just going to say, if I were GMing a game with 13 players, 4 is exactly the most likely number of mafia I would include.

So there may not need to be another explanation.

[Tiruin]

Yeah sure Max.

I'd really like you to up your reasoning in the same here--I've been stuck with the impression that you're testing peoples interactions, but that kind of response isn't helping you at all, or town, if you are town.

4 is pretty much a good number, just like 3. But what do you even mean by the comments you keep shooting off; who do you think is scum? Seriously. -_- I doubt all those voting you are all scum. Each and every one of them have stated their reasoning or at least as much in brevity.

[Maximum Spin]

I'd really like you to up your reasoning in the same here--I've been stuck with the impression that you're testing peoples interactions, but that kind of response isn't helping you at all, or town, if you are town.

There's a point to it.

4 is pretty much a good number, just like 3.

Nah, 3 is too few. 5 would be interesting if the players are good.

But what do you even mean by the comments you keep shooting off; who do you think is scum? Seriously. -_- I doubt all those voting you are all scum. Each and every one of them have stated their reasoning or at least as much in brevity.

The problem is that I can't answer that succinctly until the wavefunction collapses - that is, I have a considerably detailed network of conditionals, which I also like to think of as in superposition, but until a data point fulfills one of the conditions I can't fully confirm the identities of the mafia. If I had an investigatory power things would be different. While I could also completely detail that network of conditionals, so that others could follow the same chain, it would be a lot of work for little benefit since the mafia knowing it would alter future data. In fact, even saying this much is now something I have to account for when I read things in the future. But I have been dropping hints, which is why I'm hopeful that someone else will be able to pick it up - maybe you! - if I end up dying.

[MoonyTheHuman]

Whoops, haven't been keeping up. I see the reasoning.

No Vote Here!

[Shakerag]

Persus13:

Shakerag: Why are you going after Moony?

I believe I already detailed my reasons.

Also, why are you so grumpy?

That's none of your business.

[Tiruin]

I'd really like you to up your reasoning in the same here--I've been stuck with the impression that you're testing peoples interactions, but that kind of response isn't helping you at all, or town, if you are town.

There's a point to it.

4 is pretty much a good number, just like 3.

Nah, 3 is too few. 5 would be interesting if the players are good.

But what do you even mean by the comments you keep shooting off; who do you think is scum? Seriously. -_- I doubt all those voting you are all scum. Each and every one of them have stated their reasoning or at least as much in brevity.

The problem is that I can't answer that succinctly until the wavefunction collapses - that is, I have a considerably detailed network of conditionals, which I also like to think of as in superposition, but until a data point fulfills one of the conditions I can't fully confirm the identities of the mafia. If I had an investigatory power things would be different. While I could also completely detail that network of conditionals, so that others could follow the same chain, it would be a lot of work for little benefit since the mafia knowing it would alter future data. In fact, even saying this much is now something I have to account for when I read things in the future. But I have been dropping hints, which is why I'm hopeful that someone else will be able to pick it up - maybe you! - if I end up dying.

Yes but...sans what I interpret as confabulation--you've dayhunting to do, and you're pretty much saying you're at the same spot many of us are. Yeah that inspect thing is a good thing--that's a general fact. People often don't have that opportunity, hence why we do our best to aim as close to the best presumable location as we can during the day; that is what I'm trying to do but the interactivity is a problem when the person you're talking to doesn't.

So other than all that, why are you self-conscious? There is pretty much nothing to lose, and all to gain, from dialogue with people you suspect as scum.

Whoops, haven't been keeping up. I see the reasoning.

No Vote Here!

Any ETA till you get caught up with the thread? :O

Persus13:

Shakerag: Why are you going after Moony?

I believe I already detailed my reasons.

Also, why are you so grumpy?

That's none of your business.

HMM

...Why are you grumpy?
Also you really think Moony is the best person to have your vote till day end? (What about poking other people of importaaance? D:)

[NJW2000]

Reads List

Very Suspiscious
- Maximum Spin: This is a very difficult one. He's good at arguing points and is obviously very articulate, not to mention very active. I'm not sure whther to call it scum, anti-town, or something else, but I just don't like a lot of his behaviour. He doesn't explain his votes, and has created a mind-bending debate about night stuff and lies that he now seems to be saying was about semantics and people not understanding him. He also has this emotionally disagreeable thing going where he has to do these unexplained votes and stuff to measure our reactions and figure out analytically who is and isn't scum, leaving little hints in his logic that some of us might be able to pick up to piece together what he's been working out. It could be just scum-hunting with a very superior attitude, but I'm not sure that it's going to help town. Also, a lot of his stuff could be interpreted as badly-chosen behaviour dodgily justified by his "network of conditionals", etc etc. I mean some of the things he's done: talking about how the four people voting on him are likely all scum - could be based on intelligent thought, but there's also the possibility that it's mafia bluffing or cretinous action justified by excellent rhetoric. In short, having a lot of trouble reading him but wouldn't be averse to seeing him out the game. Preferred lynch - at the moment.
- Starver: now that I look at it, a lot of stuff on night actions, but little scumhunting. Strong academic mechanical focus d1, followed by practical mechanical focus d2. Very few accusations, post analysis, questioning people, etc. Just talks about what actions he took and applied to him, a focus suspiscious in itself as scum would worry about taking night actions.


Dodgy
- kingawsume: a lot of what he's done just seems weak/newbie. For example, voting Shakerag based on the Nightkill. Still, bandwagoning on Max a bit - but may not conform to the "only bandwagon if you're very confident they're scum" meta that seems to be on bay12. Also, the reveal of a NK or similar was weird to me, but I can't think of any plausible reasons for scum to do that.
- MoonyTheHuman (TDS): Few posts before and after swap so little info, which is incentive to lynch in itself. TDS seemed lucid and useful, but didn't put himself on the line much. Even his vote seemed like a bit of pressure to back up so-so questioning - I didn't feel like he wanted to lynch me. Not who I really want to lynch today, but certainly will have to do some pro-town action to convince me they're not lurking scum.
- Persus13 (BHK): BHK said very little then gave some kind of emotional outburst. Who cares, incentive to lynch because we have no info. Naturally, this could be irl stuff, I'm definitely giving Persus13 a chance.
- juicebox: not a huge amount of content, mostly on Max or replying to people. Can't see any reason why they should be scum, but they haven't done a huge amount for town except on the most obvious target. Will be interested to see what they develop if Max is removed from the equation.
- Tiruin: most active and stuff, very big on getting people to talk. Not sure how I'd tell if she were scum though, having trouble reading her at all somehow... hard to put this, but I can't imagine what I'd find suspiscious that wasn't a scumtell that applied generally. Like, I can't "get" her personality, so changes in attitude don't surprise me. She's on the suspiscious list for an attack on the people voting Max that looks a bit Chainsaw-ish, and a lotta posts that are just "people need to post more". That may seem like a weak justification, but this is partly for my benefit: I need to remember not to trust her.
- 4maskwolf:

absence

Still, what he has posted is alright and helpful, and more like it would put him firmly in the bottom category.


That leaves:
- Shakerag: His recent attacks on Moony threw me a bit, especially with how he responded to BHK on Moony, but perhaps that's just how he rolls. Also, he claimed to be able to give everyone prezzies, and they were delivered, which was pretty pro-town, even though he didn't wear the Santa Suit.
- Fallacy of Urist: ok scumhunting and dialogue. Understandable focus on Max, especially with Max's claim to have been excluded from the mass gifting. Also did the ability thing... seems like a rather townie thing to do, given that town gets more powerful, many powers are more useful to town (e.g. investigate, get role names, etc etc). So he's prettt-tty clear in my book. Thus far.


Maybe this will help or cause discussion. Tired now.

[Starver]

(I am totally tied up in sieving wheat from chaff. Scumhunting is one thing, flinging accusations around is another. I actually agree with your assessment of me, I'm doing badly in poking and prodding because I hoped we'd get away from the RVS stage and start explaining ourselves, and let me complete the explaining of myself with tit-for-tat. Anyway,  I started re-reading from the beginning upon Tir's requests for reads, to try to fill in my gaps, expect somsthing on that line from me before midnight, GMT, still a coupleof hourse time before Day 2 force-ends. Watch this space, though don't expect gold-dust e:-) teacted from this mud...)

[Starver]

Completely forgot to ask 4maskwolf if you did something N1, and if you cared to say what (if you did). This is something I want to relate to an announcement I made in my very first post, and really has no added value to being saved up for later, given everything.