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Author Topic: i Reported Meph's Patreon.  (Read 16202 times)

Amostubal

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2017, 07:26:16 am »

Hey, just throwing in my two cents to the above, but I'd love to toss my work into any colab thing, I haven't seriously modded in about half a year but I've still got a lot of my old stuff and can make new.

What kind of stuff? Stagnant Soul and how soon could you muster it up?  I'm looking for people who really want to work with me on a new pack.  contact me on discord.
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Legendary Dwarf Fortress
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"...peering into the darkness behind the curtains, evokes visions of pixies being chased by dragons while eating cupcakes made of coral iced with liquid fire while their hearts burn out with unknown plant substances..." - a quote from the diaries of Amostubal

StagnantSoul

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2017, 08:11:57 am »

Hey, just throwing in my two cents to the above, but I'd love to toss my work into any colab thing, I haven't seriously modded in about half a year but I've still got a lot of my old stuff and can make new.

What kind of stuff? Stagnant Soul and how soon could you muster it up?  I'm looking for people who really want to work with me on a new pack.  contact me on discord.

Messaged.
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Evans

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2017, 12:34:17 pm »

On one hand, having a collaboration that actually does have multiple people sharing the burden would be good.
On the other, I just worry it'd cause the same effects to the community as MW since fewer people would want to learn how to mod.
Getting new blood is always important for a community like this - since new people can provide a fresh perspective on things or have ideas that older contributors didn't even think of.
First, it would make project a bit more reliable.
Second, people could actually be more interested in modding, if they had chance to commit mod to project managers and if voted for, it would be incorporated into the project.

I think results could be something you wish for.
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getlost.lua # How to get rid of tavern guests
function getlost ()
   local unit = dfhack.gui.getSelectedUnit (true)
   unit.flags1.forest = true
end
getlost ()

Urlance Woolsbane

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2017, 05:31:07 pm »

On one hand, having a collaboration that actually does have multiple people sharing the burden would be good.
On the other, I just worry it'd cause the same effects to the community as MW since fewer people would want to learn how to mod.
Surely it would cause the opposite? A player who would otherwise be too daunted to release a mod could get a start by contributing odds and ends to a greater whole. As you mentioned earlier, it's easy to get the passing impression that Masterwork is largely one person's doing, as opposed to a conglomeration of creators' content. That wouldn't be an issue here.

That said, it would be nice if there were a fairly specific mission statement (e.g. "Harder Dwarf Fortress,") so as to prevent anyone from seeing it as a sort of Ubermod, which could be fairly discouraging to aspiring modders.
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2017, 05:50:40 pm »

Also maybe stick to a specific theme for the content (nothing too constricting obviously, but something a bit more concrete than MDF had). Just my opinion, but one of my biggest beefs with MDF was that the sheer amount of clashing content made it feel artificial to me and took away from DF's storytelling potential simply because player worlds didn't feel like individual settings anymore.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 05:54:56 pm by PlumpHelmetMan »
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forsaken1111

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2017, 05:55:05 pm »

I can't speak to any of this from the modder's point of view but from the mod user's perspective trying to get multiple mods working at the same time is a pretty big headache so I often just go with a prepackaged bundle that looks interesting. I am full time working and going to school, I don't have hours to fiddle with mod compatibility. I do the same thing with Minecraft and other games. Having ready-made mod bundles is a godsend.
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2017, 06:16:05 pm »

It should probably also include the original ASCII as one of the tilesets for those who prefer it. Because unless I missed it, all the tilesets in MDF were user-made.
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Urlance Woolsbane

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2017, 07:28:12 pm »

Also maybe stick to a specific theme for the content (nothing too constricting obviously, but something a bit more concrete than MDF had). Just my opinion, but one of my biggest beefs with MDF was that the sheer amount of clashing content made it feel artificial to me and took away from DF's storytelling potential simply because player worlds didn't feel like individual settings anymore.
This. To me, MDF's appeal lay in the various playable custom civs, with their strategy-game sensibilities and the unique fortress experiences they offered. Something like Fortress Defense, while also a darned fine mod, was clearly tailored to a rather different experience, with a distinct aesthetic.

It should probably also include the original ASCII as one of the tilesets for those who prefer it. Because unless I missed it, all the tilesets in MDF were user-made.
Also this. ASCII is love, ASCII is life. The apostates and the heretics must not be allowed to prevail.
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"Hey papa, your dandruff is melting my skin. Is that normal?"
"SKREEEONK!!!"
"Yes, daddy."

Amostubal

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #68 on: November 07, 2017, 05:04:36 am »

Also maybe stick to a specific theme for the content (nothing too constricting obviously, but something a bit more concrete than MDF had). Just my opinion, but one of my biggest beefs with MDF was that the sheer amount of clashing content made it feel artificial to me and took away from DF's storytelling potential simply because player worlds didn't feel like individual settings anymore.
This. To me, MDF's appeal lay in the various playable custom civs, with their strategy-game sensibilities and the unique fortress experiences they offered. Something like Fortress Defense, while also a darned fine mod, was clearly tailored to a rather different experience, with a distinct aesthetic.

It should probably also include the original ASCII as one of the tilesets for those who prefer it. Because unless I missed it, all the tilesets in MDF were user-made.
Also this. ASCII is love, ASCII is life. The apostates and the heretics must not be allowed to prevail.

Well currently my new mod pack is a full install of ZM5s entire mods so WC/DD for additional creatures/plants/minerals/etc. and as adventure mode is in there, and his cave revamp is in too to add to the caverns, more plants, more creatures.  ZM5 has worked really hard on this and it is balanced. Its also a full install of grimlocke's weapons/armor/tool gear + bodyplan updates so you wont be wearing generic DF gear anymore.  I've combined these two and worked out the few "errors" that cropped up.    Grimlocke's iron mineral deposits are also in so easier access to iron (which always amazed me how you couldn't find one of the 3 most common metals on earth on many embarks).  Additionally Grimlocke's "historic metal smithing" is in and planned for human usage.

due to the fact that ZM5 also includes several races, those will be made capable of on and off, and many are planned to fully replace vanilla DF races.  I plan to flesh out fort mode play for several of these.  If anyone wants to create races and stuff that would fit inside that environment go for it.  I'm also looking for more collaborators/writers, I can't do it all.  I haven't fully idealized the mod launcher yet.  Basically I don't want to many different WTFs that doesn't match.  I do have a graphic artist and the concept of workshops being artwork pieced together is a big talking point, we want our own look and feel.  As for graphics, as our programmer works his way through the mod launcher we do plan to have more graphic options, but since the launcher may not be ready for production(I have faith in him, but I expect at least a month out past initial release), initial game play will most likely be setup with generic settings. i.e. until the launcher is nearer to completion initial testing will be with all mods on and a singular graphic pack that I have already installed while doing design work...

Currently its ALPHA... but a very stable ALPHA...  As I add in each new group of things, I'm ensuring compatibility and zero error log and testing out new reactions as they come.  As for theme: well I'd just call it a warcraft fantasy style theme in which each race is its own individual theme of fort game play while allowing you to traverse the wilderness of a world where you can literally experience all sorts of things.  As far as being plastic/artificial... well I try to tie down the clashing content.  I'm asking creators to consider what is already in the pack and to balance it to that.  I'm not bringing back massive amounts of mini mods that just doesn't fit in. I'm having each race be sandboxed so that we can fully remove them from the experience and not have the rest of the pack insta break when someone decides they don't want dwarves or whatever.  The massive amount of options available in MDF is not going to reappear in in LDF; either you have the race on|off; fort on|off as it is, or you don't. That is to keep more control over the theme of each etc.

back to original graphics... I plan to do something easier than how MDF does graphics.  I plan to basically set it up to give a) run original DF graphics, or b) run TWBT and allow setting a font and tileset group that comes with its own color scheme.  I'm really interested in anyone doing TWBT_NEXT graphic sets.  the reason I want to do this is because I want to showcase tileset writers work as they intended it to be, while allowing players to switch between them and standard DF graphics.

Additionally my pack is going to be designed to SHOWCASE the mod writers and graphics creators etc.  I want to include small write-ups so on the graphics switch page it will tell you who wrote the graphic set you have selected, may even allow splash images, say 160x160 or 320x320 banners that pop up beside the selector which will be designed by that graphic artist.  Modders who contribute to various things will have their name prominently displayed next to options for their content ; Individuals who contribute large sections of code may even have their own pages on the launcher that includes all the switches for that mod writer's content and banner/image for their content.  I want it to be a showcase of the community and to keep the idea that "I made all of it". far from the players mind.  so when they come here to discuss it, they can actually discuss say ZM5 or Stagnant Soul's content with them.
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Legendary Dwarf Fortress
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"...peering into the darkness behind the curtains, evokes visions of pixies being chased by dragons while eating cupcakes made of coral iced with liquid fire while their hearts burn out with unknown plant substances..." - a quote from the diaries of Amostubal

Saeldanya

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #69 on: November 07, 2017, 07:58:16 am »

Hey, just throwing in my two cents to the above, but I'd love to toss my work into any colab thing, I haven't seriously modded in about half a year but I've still got a lot of my old stuff and can make new.

What kind of stuff? Stagnant Soul and how soon could you muster it up?  I'm looking for people who really want to work with me on a new pack.  contact me on discord.

If you do work on a new update, make sure to post a link for donations. I can't be the only one who really appreciates you picking up where Meph left off.
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sum1won

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2017, 09:43:52 am »

That's absurd. He's collecting money for the work of compiling it. Do you expect that to be done for free?
Yes.  Most of the mods he is profiting from compiling were done for free.  Most mods are free.  And, while I'm not objecting to monetizing mod creation in general, I think its very reasonable to object to monetization when the mod itself is derivative of other people's free work.  While many modders did grant Meph permission to use their work in a free mod, I'd bet a dogecoin that many would not have provided permission to use their work if they had known that he planned on making money from, in part, their work.
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Evans

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2017, 11:50:45 am »

ASCII graphics does not appeal to everyone. I have had it enough back in 90s.


That's absurd. He's collecting money for the work of compiling it. Do you expect that to be done for free?
Yes.  Most of the mods he is profiting from compiling were done for free.  Most mods are free.  And, while I'm not objecting to monetizing mod creation in general, I think its very reasonable to object to monetization when the mod itself is derivative of other people's free work.  While many modders did grant Meph permission to use their work in a free mod, I'd bet a dogecoin that many would not have provided permission to use their work if they had known that he planned on making money from, in part, their work.
Donations are different from making money out of somebody's work.  People please learn the difference.
If he required 1$ for each MDF download, that would be making money out of somebody stuff.
Allowing people to donate money to him is an altogether different thing.
This shit is even regulated by law, so "gooby plz".
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getlost.lua # How to get rid of tavern guests
function getlost ()
   local unit = dfhack.gui.getSelectedUnit (true)
   unit.flags1.forest = true
end
getlost ()

PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #72 on: November 07, 2017, 12:04:49 pm »

I'm well aware that ASCII doesn't appeal to everyone, which is why I only suggested it as an option.
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Alkhemia

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #73 on: November 08, 2017, 10:33:40 am »

Has no one asked Tarn about the whole monopoly thing if it was bad for the community as people say it is maybe it should be removed especially with the dude being mia for so long with out bothering to tell anyone what going on

There a reason we have Antitrust laws in the USA it so stuff like this can be avoided
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Rekov

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Re: i Reported Meph's Patreon.
« Reply #74 on: November 08, 2017, 12:39:11 pm »

Has no one asked Tarn about the whole monopoly thing if it was bad for the community as people say it is maybe it should be removed especially with the dude being mia for so long with out bothering to tell anyone what going on

There a reason we have Antitrust laws in the USA it so stuff like this can be avoided

I don't think anti-trust can be applied here, because monopolies succeed by being able to under-price their competitors.

That said, I don't think it would be entirely unreasonable to revisit Masterwork having its own board at this point. It just doesn't seem like it's hurting anyone, just that it's slightly unfair and mostly no longer useful.
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