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[Quarque]

So you can stay hydrated by vomiting and drinking the vomit back up? If that is the case, I think it is a bug. Vomiting should dehydrate you a little more than drinking it hydrates.

[PatrikLundell]

So you can stay hydrated by vomiting and drinking the vomit back up? If that is the case, I think it is a bug. Vomiting should dehydrate you a little more than drinking it hydrates.

That's not exactly the only case where DF doesn't adhere to our world's logic. The self powering (with a surplus) dwarven water reactor is probably the best example of this. Real world physics doesn't allow a single bar of ash to support an arbitrarily large load either, nor support of flimsy floors of unlimited length supported in one corner by said ash wall.

[Fleeting Frames]

That's as much a bug as people not backing away from vomit or not being blinded from being vomited on or never vomiting from sheer disgust.

[Sanctume]

One pick minimum, really needed. 
You can cave-in a layer of ice without dropping the top-most ice sheet. 
When the caved-in ice falls below the freeze layer, they turn into water.  And will not freeze because it is not exposed to outside yet. 

Without picks, you can butcher the 2 pack animals, and hope you get a mood and make a bone pick.

[Fleeting Frames]

Mood requires 20 dwarves, so to get one before first caravan you must be really lucky with visitors.

[anewaname]

It might be possible to start with nothing and find a source of water/puke (not what I expected to be discussing this hour... lol), if your embark site has a natural cave, which usually leads into caverns.

I recall a video of someone starting in an animating biome with no items and staying alive until the wagons arrive by fishing in a river. This expedition reminds me greatly of that.

[Sanctume]

It might be possible to start with nothing and find a source of water/puke (not what I expected to be discussing this hour... lol), if your embark site has a natural cave, which usually leads into caverns.

I recall a video of someone starting in an animating biome with no items and staying alive until the wagons arrive by fishing in a river. This expedition reminds me greatly of that.

Yup, I think I saw that video. But with a water source, it can provide drinks and fishing for food. 

But a glacier embark, it's most likely will die off sooner.  Unless frozen blood quenches thirst.

[Quarque]

So you can stay hydrated by vomiting and drinking the vomit back up? If that is the case, I think it is a bug. Vomiting should dehydrate you a little more than drinking it hydrates.

That's not exactly the only case where DF doesn't adhere to our world's logic. The self powering (with a surplus) dwarven water reactor is probably the best example of this. Real world physics doesn't allow a single bar of ash to support an arbitrarily large load either, nor support of flimsy floors of unlimited length supported in one corner by said ash wall.

Yeah I know, but from what Toady said about it, it is clear that he tries to make the simulation as realistic as possible and physically impossible situations arise because of limitations:

1. Some physics are plain hard to model correctly (introducing more fluids beyond water & magma is a good example here: things get incredibly complicated if you mix them and they don't simply form stone).

2. Some physics are hard to model correctly without blowing up the CPU time needed for a single timeframe. The dwarven water reactor is a consequence of this: a realistic model of streaming fluids will be incredibly tough on your CPU. Even the relatively simple model we have now can easily eat into your FPS.

3. Some things are hard to model correctly AND hard to model in a realistic way without making them terribly hard to understand for the player. This is why cave-ins are modeled in an extremely simplified and unrealistic manner: at least the player can accurately predict whether a construction will be stable.

So it is inevitable that we end up with some physically impossible behaviors.

However, the vomit situation is a very simple oversight. I suspect that vomiting right now does not lower your hydration level at all, or does it? That would be very easy to fix.

[Fleeting Frames]

You could (as in, could create a script for dfhack) have it make the creature thristier and hungrier and empty stomach contents/last meals/drink.

Obvious issue is that if you make single vomiting reduce hydration by even half as much as a drinking it boosts it, "x vomits/retches x50" will kill.

Other issues arise with partially-digested food and full stomach vomit being worse than empty stomach one and creatures who can't drink like vampires/goblins/livestock vomiting.

Perhaps could make vomit dehydrate and empty stomach with xfoodx and xdrinkx if there's anything in stomach, otherwise just retch. Makes for even more stuff to clean up after a siege, but on the other hand you can probably eat or sell the xfoodx. (Unless perhaps one can't sell rotten stuff and one makes it rotten.)



There is a big issue with the above, though: Who would want to create and use it?

[Starver]

Or feed it to the children!

[Fleeting Frames]

Heh. Inefficient, but I suppose you could create 7 crow man/woman adventurers and do a tengu fortress :v

[Quarque]

Yeah, I suppose that´s true: with the current vomiting rate, dwarves and other creatures would die from thirst very quickly. Dwarves with cave adaptation might just drop dead like flies. Maybe the vomiting has just been a teeny bit overdone.

[Jazz Cat]

The next step to the vomit fix would probably be checking stomach contents and making sure that creatures can't vomit on an empty stomach. That would fix the vomiting-yourself-to-death-by-dehydration issue as well as being more realistic than the current model of infinite-vomit-created-from-nothing.

On the other hand, violating the conservation of matter for the sake of being able to produce infinite vomit sounds pretty dorfy to me.