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[Cruxador]

The loss of the slave tag for Neodamodes is offset by +4 morale (and +2 mapmove), when the best taskmaster bonus is +2, so it's an upgrade, even though you then have to pay full upkeep (3/y->6/y). Note that I'm just looking at hoplites, but I assume the other types are comparable.

Full list:

heavy hoplite
+4 morale
+2 map move
-slave tag

light hoplite
+4 morale
-slave tag
+2 map move
+skirmisher tag

peltast
+3 morale
-slave tag
+2 map move
+8 head protection (leather cap -> bronze cap)

Yeah, they're better. The only case where the lose morale is if you've forged the whip for your commanders. But I think it's questionable whether they're better enough to be worth the double upkeep.

Also, two size-4 giants per square in full magic-better-than-bronze plate is not pleasant in EA.

Yeah, that's pretty much the flagship feature of the nation. If they were sacred, they'd be amazing. As they are, they're good but a one-trick pony, which makes them a one-counter pony. And given their encumbrance values, many nations should have an option to knock them out and make them irrelevant. If you could mass them, maybe that wouldn't be the case, but all gigantes have limited recruitment. Wasn't the whole point of recruitment points that we wouldn't need hard caps like that any more? Well apparently we still do.

It seems like a thug nation, which doesn't feel totally out-of-place for Giant Sparta...

A Polemarch is a pretty good thug out of the box, but I think you're going to have a hard time scaling it up to an SC, meaning it's potentially useful but not enough to make Mekone a nation revolving entirely around this. And the paths are okay for thugging, but not excellent. An elder cyclops is better, but you're going to want that A2 random for mistform, and besides that what he's got going for him is the same - E2 for some protection buffs, F2 for phoenix pyre (but no great source of regen) and you need to forge him a full set of equipment. And he's not sacred, so unlike the Polemarch, won't benefit from a thug bless. And his attack/defense suck.

[Il Palazzo]

I like them. They look nifty.

[ThtblovesDF]

They seem good for new players, no fancy magic paths, just cash and giants, you could do worse.

Works ok with indi archer spam btw.

I would love some more mid-tier-legendarys. Like a "Ring of Element X" and there can only ever be one for each element and it is cursed, costs 20 of the element to be made and 5 in the path.

What does the Elder Cyclop even want to craft? Nothing up to construction 4 looks all that interesting.

[Endymion]

"Ring of Element X", as is, sounds like a mid-tier legendary item from some obscure line of DC comics.

What does the Elder Cyclop even want to craft? Nothing up to construction 4 looks all that interesting.

Well in general nothing all that interesting exists until const 6. Useful, sure, but nothing interesting. As far as I see it, and this is without any testing, Elder Cyclopses (Cyclopi? Cycloxen? Cyclopodes?) would only be used early for their resource bonus, as the troop line up available could use as much as they can get. A quarter of them will have A2, so with their master smith bonus they're effectively A3.... Any way to boost them one more rank in air magic opens up a ton of stuff, namely the air boosters, staves of elemental mastery, etc. Of course they also have easy access to a rather massive number of artifacts when they hit const 8.

Oh, but they do have air and earth, so they can make those flying stone birds everyone loves.

The problem is the cyclops is they each compete with 2 archons in terms of recruitment slots.

[E. Albright]

[Cyclops <-> Cyclopes] is the pluralization KO is using, which appears to be standard.

[E. Albright]

A cynical observation: if you look at the breadth, depth, and quantity of the bugs that have cropped up since release, the assorted nay-sayers who insisted this was just a tweak of the same aging engine despite what some of the beta testers said about it being a new engine (I wanna say they said it's now Unity?) look increasingly out-of-touch.

These growing pains are harsh. It needed done, but eeeesh, some of these bugs...

[ThtblovesDF]

Anything in specific that annoys you?

[E. Albright]

I'm not really bothered much, but the range and severity of bugs consistently being reported at 5.11 is, uh, impressive (since I report bugs myself I've been subscribed to every bug report thread on Steam so far, and thus don't even have to try to see what's vexing others). JK's doing a good job of quashing them as they're reported, but there's been (and continue to be) so many when the old archaic engine had largely lulled us into a sense of complacency. It's been easy to forget how complex and interlaced the underlying system is...

[Cruxador]

I'm not really bothered much, but the range and severity of bugs consistently being reported at 5.11 is, uh, impressive (since I report bugs myself I've been subscribed to every bug report thread on Steam so far, and thus don't even have to try to see what's vexing others). JK's doing a good job of quashing them as they're reported, but there's been (and continue to be) so many when the old archaic engine had largely lulled us into a sense of complacency. It's been easy to forget how complex and interlaced the underlying system is...

Honestly though, this level of bugs seems completely normal to me for an indy game with such a small team. I don't think it's exceptional at all in that regard.

[E. Albright]

It's significant compared to Dom4, both in terms of quantity and type. However, Dom4 was just a major expansion of a mature system migrated to a new developer publisher, so it's not surprising it was a lot more stable. Again, I'm not complaining; it was just something that struck me recently given how many people had complained early on that Dom5 was nothing but a big, overpriced patch for Dom4. It's definitely more than that, even if the best evidence is evidence no one should want to have. 

[Wysthric]

It's significant compared to Dom4, both in terms of quantity and type. However, Dom4 was just a major expansion of a mature system migrated to a new developer, so it's not surprising it was a lot more stable. Again, I'm not complaining; it was just something that struck me recently given how many people had complained early on that Dom5 was nothing but a big, overpriced patch for Dom4. It's definitely more than that, even if the best evidence is evidence no one should want to have. 

You could argue all of the games are a "big, overpriced patch" for the previous, but they aren't even really that overpriced when you consider all the free shit they add in.

[ThtblovesDF]

Thankfully, if you do not look at the game with the eye of a developer/modder/hardcore-nerd or df-player, it is quite enjoyable and no serious bugs that prevent fun are there, so I personally, am thankful for that.

So next Bay503 round, can we spice it up with something really stupid? Like, indi strength = 9 and only 1 lvl 3 Throne per player and half of them needed to win? Or Cataclysm timer 50 (seems long enough really) + 20x lvl 1 thrones?

What about played turn 1, then x10 Force host, then the real game starts (at turn 11 with a big ol stack for everyone)?

Or just to get that retro-Dom4 feel, recruitment numbers x3.

Realistically, we could just have a Disciple game, team max size = 25% of players, solo players allowed.

[a1s]

Let's roll it all together!
Frequent events, All.
Fast Research.
3x recruitment.
10x forces.
Day 1 cataclysm.
(All thrones required, except for 3 points, just to keep you guessing)

[E. Albright]

Minimum for Cataclysm is 5, IIRC. Not that the extra 4 turns would matter, obviously.

[Il Palazzo]

Round 502 is looking for a replacement for Erytheia. It's only turn 9, their location is good, with many independents still around, and they've staled once.