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[RoseHeart]

While all this discussion has it's place, it does add filler between character sheet submissions.

I am going to make a new dedicated Character Sheet thread, and leave this for OOC Discussion and Planning.

There will be a expanded character sheet form please fill it out in the new thread.

[Greatness942]

Alright, good. Will make a nice new place to have more character focus.
Firstly, I'm very sorry I gave that ultimatum, or even let things go so far. You're a cool dude, and the thought of making someone hate or dislike me simply because of my attitude makes me terrified.

Second, that's a very fair justification for why you didn't want it, but while I know what's happening, Blake does not. I'm really into roleplaying, through going through my characters rather than my own decisions. I don't think "This important note is under the desk, how's about Blake check that out before everyone", I think "Blake isn't going to know where this important note is. She likes books, and it's a piece of paper, so she would check there first in spite of it being under the desk." It's that separation of character and player/GM that I think means I can make it work where others failed.

If everything's all good, you can wrap up your current stuff and I can start the next chapter with a simple plot hook to get the ball rolling. Judging by "You're welcome to do it.. I do feel we're pretty low on players right now with Leonard taking a break.", I'm going to guess things are clear as crystal, but I want to get your input before I start toying around with everything.

[RoseHeart]

Its true I did have plans for a complete "dungeon" however with the door being opened now is a good time to start a new chapter.

The flashbacks and micemen had a story.

If you wish to be an adventurer, and you also wish to be a designer then I would suggest not fighting the two. You're a great role player? That's great. However just preceding without any changes means you're going against the flow. You're having to rely on that role playing skill rather than using the extra knowledge to your advantage. There's some obvious ways you can make your character part of the story they could be taken hostage or something like that. If you really want to see them stick with a party which is probably the hardest thing to do, you could have it be that they run into a character from their homeworld. The more you can do to change their motivation from the rest of the adventures so that your goals are slightly different. The more that you're not just telling the other players to just ignore the fact that you're roleplaying not knowing stuff that they genuinely don't know.

Edit: So to summarize if you will have a GMPC, then you can at least honor the difference in perspective by bringing that over to the character in some way. Have a different goal even if it's not conflicting it can still be in-alignment with other players. Having slightly different motives honors the difference inherent in being the mastermind or playing that mastermind's game. ( I also don't mean the subtle differences that every character is going to have in their motives, I mean ones that involved the story in some way. Such as a character from their home world coming up and that affecting the situation in a way that doesn't really affect the other players. Well this suddenly didn't become a summery and just became a part 2. So I'll wrap up here. Perhaps I put things in a slightly different way that helps. Maybe not. But I think I've said my piece.)

[Greatness942]

...What flashbacks?
Also, no, I don't get it, sorry. Are you saying that making the story about a character from Blake's homeworld would aid the storyline? Because my entire point is not to make her special or any better. If I want to put a RWBY character in there, I will. Hell, that gives me a good idea for it. But I don't want to do it, and I won't do it, just because Blake will stay my character while I'm running things. Won't that be preferential treatment? Besides, what if I want to work with another player and do stuff for their stories? Like, explore some stuff with Fbzib, for example?

[RoseHeart]

Another example of a good motive change, would be to go
to a place your host PC has been.

"Also, no, I don't get it, sorry. Are you saying that making the story about a character from Blake's homeworld would aid the storyline? Because my entire point is not to make her special or any better."

You may think I am crazy to say this: by changing her motive you make her less different.

This is coming from a place of experience. I ran a Super Smash Brothers RPG awhile back. In this I would also play as my character Spyro. And in this sometimes other hosts would take over, or as we call them at the time Readers.
I liked when this happened I could kind of relax and actually play my character straight. When you have a player character and you are the host you are putting on a performance. Now you can argue that's true for everyone but it is different. It is different.

However this dynamic changes when you can use a little bit of creativity. Let's say my Spyro discovered a passage from one of his games some kind of familiar area. It makes sense for him to want to show the other people through it and things like that. And maybe to some extent there's still a performance, there could be surprises and things that your character pretends doesn't know is going to happen.

When you have a player character and you are the host that puts extra attention on your character by all the other players. Even if they're not trying to even if it's just unconscious. This is the person that knows everything. Now you might perfectly flawlessly masterfully perform in a way that not does not distinguish you from any other character from players that don't know the plot. Don't know the secrets.

I would argue this is lazy. And it's lazy in the way that it actually causes you to do more work. You will have to put on a face where everybody else is more relaxed and just actually trying to uncover the truth. You are basically putting on a double performance you're creating the plot and the secrets and the surprises and you are pretending you don't know any of these things. It's extra work. Even if you're a great role player it's an extra job you don't need to have.

It's lazy in the way that people don't clean their room, then they have to put extra effort into finding things each time. Now if they set that up in advance then they could have the benefit of that through then on out.

You can pretend nothing is changed by you*[*Greatness,
not Blake] taking over and becoming the god of the universe. Or you could use that power as that god to make it so you don't have to trudge through performing to not know everything that you know. You could change the mode of the of the character so that it's something a little bit more fun. I'm not saying it's easy it's actually quite challenging but that's what your true power is is your power to be creative it's not meant to be easy.

So if you change the situation to accommodate your gained knowledge in a way that makes sense for the story. In a way you continue to be a player like everyone else and then in that way you stay the same. But if you don't honor the extra power you suddenly have in the form of information then you are fighting it and you are working against yourself. And it's a drudgery. I know I did it for several years and I had fun but I learned my lesson.

(I use voice to text and I have a cold, so it sounded really badass right now when I said I learned my lesson)

[RoseHeart]

Really I'd argue you are doing one of two things by running a DMPC:

1. Not putting all your effort into making a complete game experience for the other players.

2. Claiming that you are just superior to such an extent that you can make a satisfying role-playing experience and spend time doing everything else the other players need to do at the same time.

Sideline your character and commit to the storytelling. Everyone playing is giving their a hundred percent. Unless you can pull another 100% out of your ass you cannot give that to both jobs.

Edit: Actually, do what you're going to do. Maybe you prove me wrong. Maybe you take my advice. I am going to officially discourage it, in my host guide, but it may be too challenging for some to try to figure out how to minimalize or incorperate their PC into their temporary storytelling role.

[Greatness942]

Really I'd argue you are doing one of two things by running a DMPC:

1. Not putting all your effort into making a complete game experience for the other players.

2. Claiming that you are just superior to such an extent that you can make a satisfying role-playing experience and spend time doing everything else the other players need to do at the same time.

Sideline your character and commit to the storytelling. Everyone playing is giving their a hundred percent. Unless you can pull another 100% out of your ass you cannot give that to both jobs.

Edit: Actually, do what you're going to do. Maybe you prove me wrong. Maybe you take my advice. I am going to officially discourage it, in my host guide, but it may be too challenging for some to try to figure out how to minimalize or incorperate their PC into their temporary storytelling role.

Maybe I'll prove you wrong? I'll already dispel an assumption of yours: I don't plan out my adventures at all. Yep. I've got a plot hook, a condition for winning and losing, but individual scenarios? Encounters? Nope. That all happens per my whims. Go back through your post history to the game set in the Earth IV Mythos. All of that stuff, from the actual vampires to the Sand Wraith? I didn't know that stuff going in. Go to Wiki-Warfare. All I have planned is an ending. Chapter III being mostly Lore? Unplanned. The Herzog boss fight including a full-on question of morality? Unplanned.

So, yeah. I think Blake is going to be just fine where she is. Mostly because she is, in fact, just as in the dark as the rest of the players. Why would I have it any other way?

[RoseHeart]

IV I'll admit that the premise is interesting. But not enough happened to really use it as an example. At least for me as some kind of personal case. And of course I'm not familiar with your work in Wiki Wars.

[RoseHeart]

"Why would I have it any other way?"

Well I have only my last probably 10 posts to discuss that matter. I think it would be the professional thing to have them stand down.

(Of which I've offered several ways to accomplish in the OP)

If you want to do it.

[RoseHeart]

On a more collaborative mindset. Another possibility which would allow me to eventually finish the story I've started, would to be... To jump into a new story perhaps one that's like a flashback. Perhaps exploring Fbzib and something about him since he's the most active player right now. I think that was your idea? Then we could regroup and continue the story when Leonard returns.

[Greatness942]

Okay, no. I don't know how else to tell you this, man, but I am not going to sideline my character and makes things complicated in execution just to tell a story. If you're going to have such a big problem with this, I just won't bother! Because I would rather play as Blake and play through an adventure then to have to hear someone bitching about something as if they know me or my capabilities. And I know you're going to say I'm upset. Of course I am! I feel downright insulted that you would rather continue arguing over this as opposed to just giving me the chance to do it!

And by the way? That was just an example. Fbzib's backstory is not what I had in mind. You know what I was thinking? Nightmare. You know? Nightmare? Another unplanned story-arc that, surprise, had a GMPC (Roy Mustang). You didn't care about him then, so why are you making such a big deal out of it now?

[RoseHeart]

As you put it the first attempt was Amateur hour. Now we're pulling up our pants.

[RoseHeart]

If you're waiting for me to give you the go ahead(something you don't need bcus 72hr rule)

"Alright. I feel it's tacky and I'm not immediately excited to join a game where the host has an PC."
...I

"Actually, do what you're going to do."
...already.

"If you want to do it."
...have.

...

If you need me to ignore something that to me seems as simple as math. Something that if you achieve, you will have successfully done double duty in an unremarkable an uninventive way, I do think you can do better. I think any brain power and emotion power you can move over to the story telling will be better for everyone. Is it possible to tell a good story and role play well with your character maybe so but why do that. It's not smart and it's not clever.

[RoseHeart]

Merseth: "ROY! Do something!"

After this, admittedly you become more active. However initially you did side-line your character so you could focus on Nightmare. Except for they didn't go away anywhere they just were kind of twiddling their thumbs for a bit.

I'm going to just try to make objective statements, or subjective statements that I think most people will agree with. Common sense stuff:

If the hostpc is not removed or made a story device...

-Host updates blend in with hostpc gameplay (they look the same!)
-Each role takes work, doing both means some resources are not going to story telling (math)
-Using a roll honor system others are not*
-Either
A) You know plot devices others do not, and must avoid metagaming in a way they couldn't possibly do*
B) Improvise and do not take advantage of the beneficial uses of planning and secrets (often at the expense of the long-term experience)
-*Your roleplaying experience is different than everyone else's, even if you succeed in portraying your character the same

I dare say that after a host swap when the former host does return to committing to their player, often the experiences it's like their player character has been asleep in there just waking up. This is either external as if the player has not been very active and they are suddenly back on duty. Or it will be internal as the host can suddenly put 100% into role playing and experiencing the world from their character. It will be jarring either externally or internally maybe somewhere between but it will have its effects.

I know this I did this a lot. I am literally criticizing a younger version of myself in everything I've been saying.

But this kind of jarring aftermath doesn't have to go to waste in fact you can use that energy. If your character had been away from the group or if your character's involvement in the story had been temporarily changed, then it would make sense that there's a little bit of jitter as they get back into the adventure role that they had before along with the main cast. That would make sense you wouldn't have to fake it which you would feel you are doing, and it wouldn't seem odd because it makes sense for the story.

(Edit:spelling)

[Greatness942]

Alright, man. I see what you're saying, and I'm really, truly sorry my attitude's gotten so bad. I'm thankful you're giving me a chance to do this sort of thing. In all honesty? I just don't feel like this is something that's impossible for me, and I wanted to show that. That I could say "My style isn't better than anyone else's, but how I do it could lend itself to this sort of thing." is something not a lot of people can say, and I felt hurt that you would say it wouldn't work out in spite of my perceived or actual ability.

If it doesn't work out for this arc, I'll give my characters an out. No harm done, no bruised egos, I just take control and leave my character to their own devices for a second? If it does, then I keep doing the shtick of playing double-duty with each arc. No one is wrong, you raised good points. I just feel like I have to try it at least once to see if I, personally, have a feel for it, y'know?