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Author Topic: Cultist Simulator: Behold Our End (Kickstarter by creator of Sunless Sea)  (Read 35181 times)

Biowraith

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Biggest problem with the game I think is the reliance on dice in certain instances, also the way cults interact with your temptation.  I can't be sure since I"ve never tried, but going by what I've seen it seems like choosing a cult that doesn't match your temptation will make it much harder to win.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And yes, hunters are bullshit.  They're the only thing that can (un)reasonably threaten my success on any playthrough now, because dealing with them is so RNG dependent and a bad RNG result just makes them more of a threat.  I've also never had them try to arrest a follower, they've always gone straight to me.
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lordcooper

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This is what I was kind of referencing above about Alexis' games.

Cultist hideout possibly not being finished, there being very few temptations versus aspects despite the system clearly being designed with that in mind.....the fact there are what, four locations in game to visit?

Just reminds me of the unfinished core storylines in Fallen London (I forget what they're called now) or the other bits that end with "More coming soon!"

There's easily 30 different locations, the plan was to have three main 'ascensions' in at launch and has been since the first time such a mechanic was mentioned (expect more to be patched in sooner rather than later, basically the entire game was made after the KS ended like 8 months ago so they're obviously working FAST).  You're also complaining about something designed to be a more or less perpetually ongoing f2p game having ongoing plotlines, (which is a bit hilarious in itself really) and projecting that bizarre dissatisfaction onto a much smaller self contained project being made by two people that have hit every single deadline so far.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Every single assumption made here is incorrect.


I'm starting to think hunters grab the first Reputation item they can. If you have an old notoriety, and a lot of new mystique, they will take the notoriety first. So it seems you want to have a ton of mystique pretty much all the time. Yes, it makes Season of Suspicion events last forever. But running down the timer on notoriety by having tons of mystique in front of it seems to be the only way to keep hunters from snatching up notoriety as fast as they can.

I can't be bothered rooting around in decompiled code again right now, but based on purely anecdotal evidence I'm fairly sure it's entirely random.  If so, spamming the board with mystique will decrease the odds of it picking up a notoriety on any given cycle.  If you'll be generating further notoriety in the near future then this is probably a bad idea in the long run though.

Heart followers can destroy a randomly chosen reputation card (notoriety/mystique) as their standard (talk with cult) action, so minimising mystique and doing this ASAP when a notoriety pops (even starting in advance when you know one is coming from an expedition or w/e) is probably the smarter play.  Before you have access to decent heart followers the best play is to time notoriety generating acts to end shortly after the season of suspicions.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 02:05:10 am by lordcooper »
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lemon10

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You should probably put the tl;dr in spoilers as well.
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Warmist

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Good news: modding support is coming (source).

I would love to randomize some stuff as currently there is not much replay-ability if you lose. E.g. if it had any deck building (e.g. characters, locations etc...) even if not directly but e.g. by "starting in another continent" or having different background would let you meet different people.

Also maybe some more mechanics with jobs (e.g. physician could get corpses with some help? :)

MCreeper

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Well, one thing i really want to be in game - cards with timers that was made at the same time should be mergeable. And exhausted stats should automatically merge with unexhausted ones upon recovery. I didn't even reached proper cult yet, and my "table" is already horribly cluttered.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 04:42:28 am by MCreeper »
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Aoi

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Well, one thing i really want to be in game - cards with timers that was made at the same time should be mergeable. And exhausted stats should automatically merge with unexhausted ones upon recovery. I didn't even reached proper cult yet, and my "table" is already horribly cluttered.

You're telling me... on my last attempt, I was trying to click on something on the edge of my view, and accidentally shifted it over... revealing two no-action verb boxes that I didn't even know were there.
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nenjin

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Quote
There's easily 30 different locations, the plan was to have three main 'ascensions' in at launch and has been since the first time such a mechanic was mentioned (expect more to be patched in sooner rather than later, basically the entire game was made after the KS ended like 8 months ago so they're obviously working FAST).
 

30 Expeditions maybe. In terms of repeatably visitable locations though...I have 4, and have had 4 since I started playing this game. I haven't made it that far through the Mansus, but after 30 or so hours of sending cultists to explore the city...I have 4.

Quote
You're also complaining about something designed to be a more or less perpetually ongoing f2p game having ongoing plotlines, (which is a bit hilarious in itself really) and projecting that bizarre dissatisfaction onto a much smaller self contained project being made by two people that have hit every single deadline so far.

Perpetual plotlines he's never finished, or even updated, in 6 years. It's what drove me off of Fallen London. They'd just keep spinning up new crap instead of finishing the crap we'd already started, so the game and your time in it became an assemblage of half-finished storylines.

I also don't really care if he works "fast" or how many people he has on his team. (This isn't exactly the most mechanically or graphically complicated game either. Sunless Sea was orders of magnitude more work than this game.) The game is released but yet I keep hearing about what will be coming after release that looks like it should have been finished now. It's a pattern of behavior I've seen in every game he makes. There's no projection here. Just a lot of experience with this dev over the last almost 7 years. He will always put more out there or frame up more than he's actually going to finish, and if it's left dangling.......? Oh well. #livingstories

Also I'm starting to reach the point where I feel like the game's biggest gimmick are the bottlenecks. There is so much cult activity you want or need to do but only one avenue for it. And needing to watch some cards down to the second all the time so you can maximize your actions gets a little wearying after hours of playing.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 10:17:01 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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Cthulhu

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started a new game after the last bullshit death, got maybe 20 minutes in and stopped after five or six consecutive failures on chance-to-succeed events. 

My opinion on the game has done almost a complete 180 over the past couple days.  When you first start the mystique and the interesting lore draw you in, but once you've seen it you've seen it.  There's nothing else to the game.
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Shoes...

Stuebi

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The writing kept me going a while, but after my third failure I feel like this is not my cup of tea.

The table get's so insanely cluttered as you move on that it becomes a nightmare to keep track of everything, especially considering the game demands you just remember all discovered information and interactions on the top of your head.

Sometimes the game will let me put cards into all slots of an action/location/verb/whatever, but grey the start button out. But it will NOT tell me why I cannot start it.

Just in general, way too light on information. According to Reviews on steam this is appearantly part of the appeal. But in my opinion the game could've easily kept it's wonderful writing and interesting twists in, while still actually not being as obtuse and confusing as possible. There is zero reason that there is no sort of documentation for things you already did, some sort of notebook, or a legend, or even just a frigging post-it where you can write stuff down, or drop cards onto to make some notes.

The Chance-based stuff also seems to hate me (Gonna give the game the benefit of the doubt here and assume I just might've gotten unlucky). I swear even when the game told me successrates for a given action would be high, they failed more often than they suceeded. Considering that stuff like this can literally obliterate hours of play, this seems rather annoying.
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English isnt my mother language, so feel free to correct me if I make a mistake in my post.

Il Palazzo

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I also loved the no-info-given approach. Makes you feel like an actual cultist - not knowing how to get to your nebulous goal.

The gameplay design has killed the game for me, though. And much sooner than it did so for Cthulhu. I played for maybe 5 hours on the day I bought it, mostly since once you're hooked by the clicker mechanics it's hard to stop. And while I like the whole being a cultist idea, and the writing is fun, I just don't see myself getting back to the tedium just to get the story fix.
It would have been approximately gazillion times better without the timers and the chaotic tabletop UI. I wish it was a more traditional turn-based card game.


On a somewhat unrelated note, anyone knows why the GOG reviews get their useful/not useful counters reset every couple days for this game? Is this a something the seller can do, a glitch, a standard GOG thingy for early days of release. I've never paid much attention to it before.
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nenjin

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I don't find the table top design too onerous, but maybe I just haven't played far enough. I'd really like to see them get a QoL patch out.

Quote
When you first start the mystique and the interesting lore draw you in, but once you've seen it you've seen it. There's nothing else to the game.

Hate to say it but....welcome to Alexis' games. "Once you've seen it you've seen it" describes every game I've played by him. Which unfortunately does not jive well with the roguelike kick he's been on since Fallen London.

Sometimes I think if his writing wasn't directly tied to his ideas about gameplay, him and another person could make a game that was both narratively excellent and had game play good enough you didn't end up having to re-read Alexis' work 14 times over to get to something new.

Unfortunately he maintains that his writing and his game design are kind of 1:1. Although I think he's done some collaborative work with someone in the past.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

askovdk

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You know best what you like and have experienced, - but let me try to give some pointers on how to give this game another chance, as it has gone from ‘fascinating’ to ‘very good and well-designed’ in my book.
I’m on my first successful run (currently investigating behind the Peacock door), so I haven’t completed a game yet, and can’t talk about replayability, and there may be random stuff later that I don’t yet know.
However, I have played about 5 games that went well before ‘random chance screwed me over’ making me rage quit  >:( , and the I reached the enlightenment:  :-*

As in real life, if you allow random chance to screw you, then you have mostly failed already. So don’t ever be in such situation.
Some years back somebody here wrote, that Dwarf Fortress is a disaster prevention game, because one loyalty cascade, FB, zombie invasion can destroy everything, - and this Cultist Simulator is kind of the same.

So, as soon as any of the fail conditions reaches level 1, then it’s full stop and crisis mode until it has been dealt with!
Is that always fun? No, but it’s called ‘Cultist Simulator’, - not Cultist Manager or Cultistopia, and as a simulation it makes sense that you have to keep a low profile on certain activities from time to time.
You don’t get mystic or notoriety by doing your mundane daily work, so if you ever have to attack a hunter, then it would have been much safer to simply avoid any mystic generating activities until the evidence has decayed. Is that fun? Not much, but it’s fair for a simulation, and you can still read, research and dream, anything that doesn’t involve the public.

I will try to give some low-spoiler guidance on how to control the fail counters: (Excuse me if they have already been talked about in the spoilers, as I haven’t read those.)
The hunter:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Health:
I doubt this will ever kill you after the first 15 minutes of play, and if it does before that, then just start a new run.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Despair:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fascination:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Money: Not on its own a fail condition, and I haven’t found any strong tricks in generating risk-free income (beside being the doctor). To me is seems like the doctor is ‘easy/normal’ mode, so that is what I’m currently playing. It may be interesting to be forced to balance risk/reward on the money track with another class, but it could also be very frustrating to be forced to inactivity simply while slowly earning money.

None of these methods are instant, so that is why I claim that a fail counter on 1 is a full stop crisis, however:
(*) Getting rid of cards in general:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Does this solve everything? Not if you have multiple fail counter threatening, but then again, if you put a full effort in resolving a crisis (and use the (*) trick), then you should be pretty safe.

And finally, about using cultists:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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E. Albright

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It sounds like everything that bothered me when the public alpha/demo/whatever was floated is still an issue, and between that and my prior experiences with AK, I think I'll be able to stay strong and give this a pass, even as my prior experience with AK tempts me to give it a go for the writing. In that regard, thanks to all who have nitpicked and/or bellyached, as well as those who offered counterpoints to said griping.

It was intriguing but ultimately frustrating in the alpha, and it sounds quite a lot like that hasn't changed...
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Karlito

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My opinion on the game has done almost a complete 180 over the past couple days.  When you first start the mystique and the interesting lore draw you in, but once you've seen it you've seen it.  There's nothing else to the game.

Yup, basically. I won a Power victory yesterday, and it was sort of underwhelming the way I suddenly realized that I was holding onto all the pieces I needed to win. It turns out I had seen basically everything on a previous run, and now that I understood the mechanics better it was just a matter of grinding things out. I had previously thought that the midgame was a drag, but had hoped the endgame would be more interesting. Well, it turns out there is no end game content, just a long and tedious midgame. I think I got everything I needed to win just from the level 6 expeditions.

It was a fun few days, worth the money I spent, but I don't think I can recommend anyone else buy it.
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ThtblovesDF

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Bought it and returned it - to me it seemed extremly grindy and with very little actual choice. There is a optimal path, that takes a fair amount of time regardless of your choices.

I like the concept a lot however for what it's worth.
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