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Author Topic: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)  (Read 17376 times)

Whisperling

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #90 on: September 14, 2017, 04:55:34 pm »

Just want to take a moment to thank you for all the responses and such, Ferret. The game itself is great, and that's only compounded by having such an active and involved dev.

------

I'm currently at level eight or so in a really neat run. The build is titan's fist with slash/body, which gives me a counterattack, a 70-power 100% accuracy slash, and bloodthirst. Threw some AOE attacks, flesheater, and an ember dive on later, which made me into a weird sort of shock unit. I jump in, kill as much stuff as possible with AoE attacks, and keep my health up with the drain abilities.

Going to have to be careful not to throw myself into a dangerous situation (not to mention Madevra) later, since I'm still coasting on the post-anomaly levels, but this is pretty fun.
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FerretDev

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #91 on: September 17, 2017, 11:03:10 am »

Buffing Code: The buffing code is actually pretty different for each buff/debuff. :D

Since we're talking about Guilt, we'll use that for our example. The factors considered here are:

1) Base value: 200 (Guilt is considered to be a fairly good thing thing to do... for reference, an attack expected to deal roughly 16% of a target's HP in damage would be 100.)
2) Success rate of the attack. (Note: Accuracy below 50% starts losing value rapidly.)
3) Guilt specific: Threat level (How threatening the target is: basically, it's level, speed, and whether it's a hero, a minion, or normal rank)
4) Guilt specific: How damaged the target is (The more damaged the target is, the higher this evaluation comes back)
5) Guilt specific: Is the target under a kill order? (If yes, higher evaluation)
6) Guilt specific: Is the taret at full health? (Special case of 4: returns a lower evaluation)
7) Guilt specific: Do I or my allies have multi-target damage effects? If NOT, then reduce the evaluation drastically if there is already one Guilted enemy.

whew, okay. Now to explain why Guilt does all that. The first two are relatively straightforward: the base value of 200% is something I came up with myself, and success rate is an evaluation factor in literally everything; in fact, it tends to be a straight multiplier on the evalution. i.e: a 200 evaluation with a 70% chance to work comes out at 140. As noted, chances below 50% start to have an additional penalty: the AI doesn't like gambles very much.

Next up: Guilt checks threat and how damaged the target is because these are the same factors damage effects check. Since Guilt triggers off of dealing damage to the target you applied it to, it makes sense that you'd want to use similar criteria in some regard.

Checking for a Kill Order of course also makes sense: kill orders (at least, when there aren't any bugs :P ) force allies to attack the target, making them an extra good target for Guilt.

A full health target is a fairly mild penalty, only there to nudge the AI into choosing an already damaged target over an undamaged one in close call cases. For example, I want the AI to choose a 55% success rate 80% HP target over a 60% success rate 100% HP target. Why? Because a target that has already been damaged once will likely be attacked again. :D Factor 4 on the list already handles this to some degree: factor 6 is just to underline it a bit for the specific case of full health targets.

Finally, the 7th one: If nobody has multi-target attacks, there isn't a large amount of point to guilting multiple targets, so we strongly discourage that here.

Anyway: I could adjusting the base value, perhaps. 200 is relatively high... but I confess I tend to aim high when dealing with healing effects because I have a phobia about the AI having ways to heal the player, not using them, then the player dying and coming to my forum to yell at me (or worse, just walking away from the game and never coming back.)


Focus Target: The AI will allow itself to target non-focus targets, but only if it seems to have no way to reach who you told it to attack. I'm starting to think there might be a bug in this somewhere, based on discussions here and back on Demon's forum, but I haven't gotten to looking into it yet.


Skill Tagging: What I worry about with this sort of thing is players changing the tagged ability every turn though: that's when you land in "TRPG with a particularly clunky interface" territory. I think there might be an issue where Warmth isn't properly considered in Ignite's AI which will address this specific instance... but yeah, in general, a Ukobach will probably pick Flame Dart over Set Alight, since Ignite (ordinarily) has a relatively low evaluation. (And yes, Warmth is indeed very powerful if there's an unusually large number of targets to burn. :D )


Thanks again for the feedback, comments, and compliments everyone. :D Work's finally calming down a little, so I should be able to get back to work on the next build here soon. :D
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nenjin

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #92 on: September 17, 2017, 02:34:59 pm »

That's some pretty robust logic. My guess would be it was the count of AoEs on my side that was triggering Python to cast it so much. I had at least three AoEs on me (do they count their own AoEs in that calc?) Python had one. Can't remember who else I had with me but if it was Turdak, that'd make 5 AoEs.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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How will I cheese now assholes?
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Always spaghetti, never forghetti

FerretDev

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #93 on: September 17, 2017, 02:41:37 pm »

It's more of a boolean check in this case: if there is at least one ally with an AE nuke available, the penalty for multi-Guilting is waived, since in such a case there is a good argument for it,

Chances are good this is a problem with the specific values I've assigned to those evaluation elements. I don't often review them, and I think most of this code has probably been unchanged since Guilt was added to the game over 2 years ago. I've made a note to give it a more detailed review sometime soon and see if I can calm it down a bit. If nothing else, I may reduce the base value of this and many other enchantments: if you're playing the game now but hadn't before, it is actually only a recent change that most buffs/debuffs are relatively short duration. Up until a couple of builds back, enchantments tended to have durations of 10 or even 20 turns, not the 3/5/10 that are much more common now.

I didn't change the evaluations then mostly because I didn't know what the overall effects of that change would be on the value of each individual enchantment yet, but I would feel more confident making some tweaks now that I've had time to get feedback.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #94 on: September 18, 2017, 11:34:25 pm »

Gave it a second try, getting it this time. Though I'm often running out of C... My parties keep losing members, sadly my precious willow wisp has died. Currently working with a psychic Zar, Jiang Shi, Echenis, and an Abbey Lubber. Using the Crown of Glory with light main and secondary. How strong are those portals to the fire and forest realm? I haven't tried them yet.

MY ECHENIS DIIIIIIIIED!!!!!!!

How good is a score of 4012?

Well this game is addicting once I got the hang of it. My general strategy is throw in Headless while Holy Nero and Fiery Fairy provide healing for me and Headless, with me applying Guilt, Shock, Mute, and Panick as necessary while tanking. Regen+guilt+bloodlust+parry+that ghost ability that heals me when others die makes me kind of a regen tank paladin thing. When Headless gets beaten up I throw in a Violent Ogre in his place, and if he goes down a Violent Abbey Lubber. I've been looking for someone to soul armour myself with, though so far everything gives me equal amount of weaknesses as resistances.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 05:43:36 am by StagnantSoul »
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nenjin

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #95 on: September 20, 2017, 06:59:14 am »

Quote
How good is a score of 4012?

I think that's more or less a pre-Anomaly score? At least I recall scoring around 6000 by that point.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 07:02:25 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

( Tchey )

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #96 on: November 12, 2017, 07:10:04 am »

Hi,

Any teasing on the next update to come ?

Still working on it ?

Page on ithio is quite too
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FerretDev

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #97 on: November 25, 2017, 12:37:37 am »

Ah, sorry. :D The thread had gotten quiet for awhile, so I'd gotten lazy about checking it. :(

Development's been at a slower pace in general since July when I resumed full time employment, but I've still been posting updates regularly at my blog: http://demon.ferretdev.org/devblog/

I admit I don't tend to update the itch page nearly as much as probably should: probably a bit of a chicken and egg thing there; it never got much traction, so I don't spend much time updating it except for releases, which probably is part of why it continues to not get much traction. :P I was slightly better about it when I was in full time development, but now that time's more precious I tend to stick to the blog.

To give a short summary of what's coming up: the next build is the "Matter build", which I call that because it will be adding a new elemental type, Matter, to the game. :D Matter abilities operate based on the physical form of the target: acid attacks, disintegration, entangling, and blindness are the major themes, but there are others lesser themes present as well: like Body and Mind, Matter covers a fair bit of ground.

Since they literally affect the matter of the target, Matter abilities tend to work quite well on things with fragile, squishy, or small physical forms... not so well on things with unusually sturdy or large forms... and not at all on things completely lacking a physical form, such as spirits and ghosts.

The Matter build is quite extensive: Matter is being added to the game as a fully supported element, hopefully indistinguishable from the original elements. That means over around 70 new abilities and 18 new demons: roughly a 15% increase on the amount of abilities and demons already present in the game. It will also be supported in all the other smaller ways: some Matter abilities will be available in starting character packages, there will be Matter modifiers, some older demons will have some of their abilities swapped out for new Matter abilities if they're more lore and/or balance appropriate, etc.

I still have a bit of ways to go before it's ready for release, but progress has been steady, if slower than I'd like, with a nice surge just now because of the Thanksgiving holiday here in the US. :D

Sorry again for the slow response! Good luck in the Tower!
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nenjin

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #98 on: November 25, 2017, 08:19:38 pm »

You in to taking user submissions FerretDev? I could be motivated to make some level tiles for sure.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

StagnantSoul

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #99 on: November 25, 2017, 09:17:34 pm »

Will Headless use matter? From the description it feels like he would.
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Quote from: Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum
I threw night creature blood into a night creature's heart and she pulled it out and bled to death.
Quote from: Eric Blank
Places to jibber madly at each other, got it
Quote from: NJW2000
If any of them are made of fire, throw stuff, run, and think non-flammable thoughts.

FerretDev

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #100 on: November 26, 2017, 11:00:50 am »

Nenjin: I am! :D Sending you a PM. :D

StagnantSoul: Headless isn't currently slated to have any Matter abilities. (I'm curious though, what about Matter or Headless made it seem like he would?)
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #101 on: January 19, 2018, 05:41:11 am »

Been trying out playing this again, Artemis is sure nice to have along as ranged support beside angel, add in some self healing from poisoning i found on a turd we tamed then deleted and a charged angel enabling our stormsworm cocoa who regains sp and shocks surrounding enemies when she shocks one (who had her ice abilities deleted) and we can tear through almost anything... Except this one hero who guilted everyone and dodged all our attacks, even dropping five frost and fire glyphs into her face did nothing... Nine heal gems, two dead uniques, a slaughtered lifegiver nero and charged angel later I finally died.
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Quote from: Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum
I threw night creature blood into a night creature's heart and she pulled it out and bled to death.
Quote from: Eric Blank
Places to jibber madly at each other, got it
Quote from: NJW2000
If any of them are made of fire, throw stuff, run, and think non-flammable thoughts.

AlStar

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #102 on: January 19, 2018, 09:14:37 am »

Sometimes it's definitely better to cut-and-run rather then sticking it out. Sure, you miss out on the power-up you get for defeating a hero, but it's better than getting cut down.

Tegga21

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #103 on: January 19, 2018, 09:54:48 am »

Is there an extended game? Aka branches with bosses for keys to enter the orb area, where you could do more to get extra keys?  (Like DCSS)
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Tegga21

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Re: Demon(Demon-taming, Monster-crafting, Dungeon-crawling Graphical roguelike)
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2018, 10:20:06 am »

Where to see what things like 'low profile' do
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