Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Fleeting Frames]

Used to be that elves could bring tame tigermen, and even in 43.05 you can catch and tame Gremlins.

Since Toady had to fix animal marriage requirement for breeding, would I be correct to suspect that intelligent pets can marry and don't require marriage to have children?

Don't have any gremlins handy to test myself.

[PatrikLundell]

My single case of hetero opposite gendered Gremlins that, through an incredible stroke of luck, had an age difference of less than 10 years resulted in nothing. Both were full members of the civ, accepted via petition. I had hacked the raws to make them twice as large (to allow them to wear kobold clothes: hadn't heard of the "make your own" trick at that time), and hacked them to fully tame when their petitions were accepted (to get around the buggy behavior surrounding retraining of working citizens). A part of the problem was that their relations aren't exposed, so I had no idea if they had any relation to each other. Pre nuptial suite treatment did not result in either marriage or children, though.
My guess is that they can marry and that this is required for children, but the above is my only support for that guess, apart from the logical argument that I think intelligent/civilized should trump animal/pet according to my weighting.

[Fleeting Frames]

*looks at max age being 800-1000*

Okay, yah, lucky.

And thank you. Not the answer I expected or hope for, but useful nevertheless.

Iirc wierd has mentioned in regards to animal men who wander onto map that they require being historical figures to breed. Did your gremlins have histfig_id set (by, say, getting name by killing a histfig)?

[PatrikLundell]

I doubt my Gremlins had killed anything. However, I don't think the behavior of wild animal people is relevant to civilized ones or to intelligent "pets". However, if I was to get a pair again (my general fortress plan calls for gremlin traps for each cavern) I'll consider trying to draft them into an xbow squad to try to get them to execute prisoners (although I suspect xbows are too large for them) to make them "proper" hist figs. However, becoming members of the civ should be sufficient to make them histfigs (I guess the histfig list can be checked when gremlins are available to see if they're present).

I intend to start a new fortress once the new DF version is out and DFHack has caught up. We'll see where gremlin breeding ends up in the priority list (which I don't intend to start on until DF is upgraded).

[Nilsou]

I have tryed recently with CAN_LEARN dog and cat, and i had children (but no marriage).
Notice that i had surnumerous bed and that they could (but i'm not sure) have used some bed for them, so this could be a condition (but i'm not sure) .

But well, it works.

BUT, i never had any babies of inteligent being, pet or not, that are not dwarf in my fortress, even with a LOT of them (50+ of the same species) and with a lot of couple of them with their own bedroom. (15+).
So, isn't it that the problem ? 

[PatrikLundell]

Well, civilized creatures are poor breeders in fortress mode, and usually need a helping hand to get married, and frequently to get children as well. Procreation requires the two future parents to spend a short time in the same or adjacent tiles with no activity for either of them. Sleeping in a bed is an activity...
However, I've never managed to get naturalized citizens to marry: all married couples were married when they were accepted (and it's one of the criteria I use to admit them, using Legends Mode info to ensure their partner is alive, moving around, and has a profession that can result in citizenship [i.e. not merc]).
The age restriction is a big damper on naturalized citizen marriages, especially for elves and goblins that do not deteriorate with age. Add the fortress mode's generally abysmal ability to make acquaintances and you should consider yourself lucky if you get a single marriage.

[Fleeting Frames]

@Nilsou: Thank you. Do they still keep breeding if you get the mother to become historical unit? (such as by getting them to kill a historical unit)

EDIT: Failed to replicate in arena mode, the talking dogs wouldn't get pregnant. Though embarking with [INTELLIGENT] dogs got ones that had performance skills and histfigs set (so no need to kill anything and my question is moot), unlike in arena mode where they're spawned without a histfig.

EDIT 2: Also failed to replicate in fort mode. In two years, during which 4 dwarves married and had two babies none of the dogs got lovers or pregnant. Used 3x3 burrows for 3 pairs of dogs while everyone else hanged around in meeting area and checked with gui/gm-editor.

Also... Did you mean cats and dogs (as in, more than 1 cat and dog),
or did you mean to say that you did male cat x female dog?

@PatrikLundell: I'm pretty sure you know this, but historical unit id is actually viewable with gui/gm-editor on the unit- it's on the second page. Default embark turkeys and such start with it unset.

[Nilsou]

Of course i had one cat female, on cat male, one dog female and one dog male, with the CAN_LEARN tag. My dog die of starvation (due to the carnivore tag, the can-learn make them eat and sleep and i had not enough meal) but the cat survive and make a baby. But it take time, happen once and well, it could be a rare case ... don't know. As i said, i had surnumerous bedroom and cats have one of them (the claimed bed when they have one). So it could be the trick.

[Nilsou]

Well, civilized creatures are poor breeders in fortress mode, and usually need a helping hand to get married, and frequently to get children as well. Procreation requires the two future parents to spend a short time in the same or adjacent tiles with no activity for either of them. Sleeping in a bed is an activity...
However, I've never managed to get naturalized citizens to marry: all married couples were married when they were accepted (and it's one of the criteria I use to admit them, using Legends Mode info to ensure their partner is alive, moving around, and has a profession that can result in citizenship [i.e. not merc]).
The age restriction is a big damper on naturalized citizen marriages, especially for elves and goblins that do not deteriorate with age. Add the fortress mode's generally abysmal ability to make acquaintances and you should consider yourself lucky if you get a single marriage.

I imagine that there is no way to remove this age restriction through modding ?

[Fleeting Frames]

I'll try again with more furnishings later, then. Also, note that I used [INTELLIGENT] tag instead of [CAN_LEARN], which also gives them [CAN_SPEAK]. Worth investigating if that affects thing.

For reducing the problem of age restriction, you can make them live shorter lives. Far more likely to be within 10 years of age if they're few decades old not few centuries old on average.

[PatrikLundell]

The other way to reduce the age gap is to change the year of birth of one of them using DFHack.

[Nilsou]

Haha, this could have a lot of border effect i guess.
Surely it could be more effective if Dfhack known the "10" of "10 years restriction" adress to change it ^^.

But are you sure that this restriction applied for other races than dwarves ? Pet too? And in worldgen ?

[KittyTac]

My dog die of starvation (due to the carnivore tag, the can-learn make them eat and sleep and i had not enough meal).

It can't be that hard to keep carnivores alive. I have a felid (sentient cat) in my fort. To keep it alive, I tend to leave dorfs to hunt for meat, or catch cavern creatures and drop them 40 z-levels so they die, then butcher the corpses.

[Fleeting Frames]

Can't say for certain about pets, but if I have to guess I'd say no due nobody mentioning it being a problem with cave crocs or elephants.

And iirc it doesn't apply in worldgen, either. I would doublecheck to make sure, but even if it does elves and goblins have no problems spreading.

Only fort mode marriage restriction. If there is a way to change it, it is not known, and it'd be easier to use gui/family-affairs to marry your desired pairs.

@KittyTac: Yeah, butchering some pack animals and turkeys provided enough meat for mine.  Though I also fished, iirc that also suits them going by Kobold Camp.

[Nilsou]

My dog die of starvation (due to the carnivore tag, the can-learn make them eat and sleep and i had not enough meal).

It can't be that hard to keep carnivores alive. I have a felid (sentient cat) in my fort. To keep it alive, I tend to leave dorfs to hunt for meat, or catch cavern creatures and drop them 40 z-levels so they die, then butcher the corpses.

It"s hard when you begin a new fortress with 7 dwarf, two sentient dog and two sentient cats :p . Difficult to found enough meat to feed them when you build your fort.