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[Sanctume]

I want a new embark with a jump start military.

1. 2 dwarfs with Axe 5, Armor User 4, Weaponsmith 1 is my current setup as I want the military to have weaponsmith as highest mood, and sparring sooner. 

2. "Builder" is a mix of
Miner 5, Mason 3, Mechanic 2. 
or Miner 5, Mason 5. 
or Miner 5, Mason 1, Mechanic 1, Engraver 1, Stone Crafter 1, Architect 1.
or Miner 5, Mason 3, Mechanic 1, Engraver 1, Architect 1. This last one is my current choice as it seems convenient when aquifer breaching is needed early on.

I currently use to 2 Builders, but I am thinking a 3rd miner will speed up early digging needs, specially if I want to dig down and look for magma soonest.

3. I am split to having a dedicated weaponsmith and armorsmith. 
I am also split in doing bronze ores, or go for 6 iron ore + 12 flux to make 24 steel bars early which is enough for 2 steel axe, and full steel armor (bp, shirt, greaves, helm, gauntlet, and boots) and shield.

I suppose I can just make weapon + mail shirt + helm (total 5 bars) initially, until I get magma forge setup on the surface. 

I recently have been embarking with 10 garnierite ores, and assign Metalsmith 1, Metal Crafter 1 to a dwarf who will create 17 nickel minecarts for magma-filling.

4. The remaining dwarf(s) I am torn to getting a jack of all skill Organizer, Broker, Doctor and even Record Keeping; 
or splitting those skills to more than 1 dwarf. 

5. Other needs.  I tend to get an early carpenter too.  But in the long term, I usually look for a dwarf who like beds and train him to be a carpenter just in case of mood. 

6.  I like clear cutting from day 1 to prevent the dwarf stuck in tree.  But doing so misses the point of early Military when they are doing the wood cutting. 

7. Food and Drinks. I have tried grower, herbalist, egg layers--but it seems like bringing food and drinks in the embark works better initially.  And hope a migrant wave will provide the labor for food and drinks later. 

Although bringing 1 meat to gain 1 barrel is kinda cheesy, I find it that bringing a lot of barrels generates a lot of hauling when food stockpiles are setup.  Those food are ok staying in the wagon.

Anyone tried 6 Military + 1 digger lately?  I'm trying to think of the early logistics .

[Nobu]

I am less optimized than you, but...

Usually I don't bother bringing anyone specifically trained in mining.  Its skill increases are so fast, and the cost of getting a miner set up is so low, particularly since in the newer versions mining skill doesn't increase the chance of getting boulders/ores/etc, it doesn't seem worth it to me.

Just my 2 cents; I haven't tried to embark with more than two dwarves with combat skills before.

[Dunamisdeos]

I always bring one dwarf who has novice in offense/defense with adequate in the defensive skill I want to prioritize.

Rest of points go into teacher.

Trains legendary warriors so fast.

[anewaname]

I currently use to 2 Builders, but I am thinking a 3rd miner will speed up early digging needs, specially if I want to dig down and look for magma soonest.

You do not need a 3rd miner in that initial push down to magma, since that first staircase down can only be dug by one dwarf at a time (and the 2nd miner takes over when the first gets a drink). That said, I often have a 3rd miner because I dig many 30x30 soil areas while one dwarf is digging for magma (for pasture and plant gathering zones).

3. I am split to having a dedicated weaponsmith and armorsmith. 

I try to have separate dwarf for each armor and weapon smithing, but sometimes I only have one dwarf who would be good at either and I give him both skills. But when I can use separate dwarfs for those skills, I often work them with a second skill that cannot mood, like dyer or milker/cheesemaker.

I am also split in doing bronze ores, or go for 6 iron ore + 12 flux to make 24 steel bars early which is enough for 2 steel axe, and full steel armor (bp, shirt, greaves, helm, gauntlet, and boots) and shield.

I suppose I can just make weapon + mail shirt + helm (total 5 bars) initially, until I get magma forge setup on the surface.

You will need to double that flux (12 for the pig iron and 12 more for the steel). I often only take a couple of iron ore for weapons and bring tetrahedrite for copper or bronze armor. Bringing some turkeys for leather cloaks and bone leggings is also an option, but the boots need to be metal and gauntlets needs to be metal or bone/shell. My goal with early armor production is to have complete coverage of armor level 1. That will work against most of the early opponents they will face, even many of the giant animals.

4. The remaining dwarf(s) I am torn to getting a jack of all skill Organizer, Broker, Doctor and even Record Keeping; 
or splitting those skills to more than 1 dwarf.

5. Other needs.  I tend to get an early carpenter too.  But in the long term, I usually look for a dwarf who like beds and train him to be a carpenter just in case of mood. 

My "must start with 5 skill ranks" list is armorer/weaponsmith/mason/carpenter/mechanic/leatherer. After that it, remaining points go into skills and gear based on the known embark info and my current "fort" schemes. For food and booze, I bring turkeys and plump helmets, then make maybe 20 barrels.

Anyone tried 6 Military + 1 digger lately?  I'm trying to think of the early logistics .

Someone must have done it, but those 6 military dwarfs will be doing civilian work most of the time. Note that woodcutters cannot wear a military uniform and cut wood at the same time, I usually only have one woodcutter and the military hauls the wood, providing nearby protection.

Whatever plans you make, migrants and unexpected dwarf deaths will change them.

[Sanctume]

I currently use to 2 Builders, but I am thinking a 3rd miner will speed up early digging needs, specially if I want to dig down and look for magma soonest.

You do not need a 3rd miner in that initial push down to magma, since that first staircase down can only be dug by one dwarf at a time (and the 2nd miner takes over when the first gets a drink). That said, I often have a 3rd miner because I dig many 30x30 soil areas while one dwarf is digging for magma (for pasture and plant gathering zones).

I have not considered digging soil to make max zone pasture as a way to skill up mining early. 2 miners will work out good, even if not Miner+5 initially.

3. I am split to having a dedicated weaponsmith and armorsmith. 

I try to have separate dwarf for each armor and weapon smithing, but sometimes I only have one dwarf who would be good at either and I give him both skills. But when I can use separate dwarfs for those skills, I often work them with a second skill that cannot mood, like dyer or milker/cheesemaker.

I actually take the time to list the 7 dwarfs gender, age, dream (skill, masterwork, family, art, and the rare rule the world), item likes, and material when applicable.  I definite will try to work out those who likes hammer/mace+platinum, and steel+weapon.

I am also split in doing bronze ores, or go for 6 iron ore + 12 flux to make 24 steel bars early which is enough for 2 steel axe, and full steel armor (bp, shirt, greaves, helm, gauntlet, and boots) and shield.

I suppose I can just make weapon + mail shirt + helm (total 5 bars) initially, until I get magma forge setup on the surface.

You will need to double that flux (12 for the pig iron and 12 more for the steel). I often only take a couple of iron ore for weapons and bring tetrahedrite for copper or bronze armor. Bringing some turkeys for leather cloaks and bone leggings is also an option, but the boots need to be metal and gauntlets needs to be metal or bone/shell. My goal with early armor production is to have complete coverage of armor level 1. That will work against most of the early opponents they will face, even many of the giant animals.

I mess up the ratio, it should be  1 iron ore : 4 flux : 9 fuel = 4 steel bars.
1. iron ore + fuel = 4 iron bars
2. 1 iron bar + flux + fuel  = 1 pig iron
3. 1 iron bar + 1 pig iron + flux + fuel = 2 steel bars (running total: 1 ore, 2 flux, 5 fuel)
Next
4. 1 iron bar + flux + fuel  = 1 pig iron
5. 1 iron bar + 1 pig iron + flux + fuel = 2 steel bars (running total: 1 ore, 4 flux, 9 fuel)

And mail shirt only require 2 bars.  So mail shirt + helm + high boots + weapon = 6 bars.
2 sets of those will need 12 bars, so embarking with:
3 iron ores, 12 flux, 27 fuel (~ bitiminous coal) will outfit 2 military early on.

4. The remaining dwarf(s) I am torn to getting a jack of all skill Organizer, Broker, Doctor and even Record Keeping; 
or splitting those skills to more than 1 dwarf.

5. Other needs.  I tend to get an early carpenter too.  But in the long term, I usually look for a dwarf who like beds and train him to be a carpenter just in case of mood. 

My "must start with 5 skill ranks" list is armorer/weaponsmith/mason/carpenter/mechanic/leatherer. After that it, remaining points go into skills and gear based on the known embark info and my current "fort" schemes. For food and booze, I bring turkeys and plump helmets, then make maybe 20 barrels.

Interesting.  I find mason to skill up fast since I make block on repeat for use of above ground walls.  Doesn't the Miner skill tend to do Mason or Stone Crafting though?
I also keep mechanic at 1 since I do not mass produce mechanisms, and assign everyone with mechanic labor to help update traps when I have them. 
I rarely assign leatherer to more than 1 also.  I seem to find a decent candidate in future migrants for leather and clothing. 
Carpenter, I like to have high soonest to make superior or higher quality beds.

Anyone tried 6 Military + 1 digger lately?  I'm trying to think of the early logistics .

Someone must have done it, but those 6 military dwarfs will be doing civilian work most of the time. Note that woodcutters cannot wear a military uniform and cut wood at the same time, I usually only have one woodcutter and the military hauls the wood, providing nearby protection.

Whatever plans you make, migrants and unexpected dwarf deaths will change them.

I've done no military, then all other migrants go military before.  I want to find a nitch setup where 6 military starts, and the next few migrants picks up the slack in making bedrooms, dining and workshops.  I did notice some dwarfs get attached to embark quality copper/bronze weapons when I don't make steel sooner.

[Fleeting Frames]

I'm 100% certain you've read about all my military embarks I've ever mentioned...Nonetheless, discussion sometimes...alright, rarely begets ideas. So lets discuss.

❶
Depends on A: How urgent is the need? and B What exploits am I currently using?

A: Am I embarking on a shrine, hostile camp, cave full of dangerous beasts, etc. that will result in immediate hostilities that I'll have to kill right away?

In that case, I'd bring 6-7 military dwarves and dogs with equipment attached. With default embark points, can get 2 armored melee ones and 5 ranged combatants.

I think the last time I did this I used Mining 5/Dodger 3/Armor User 1/ Shield User 1 for the melee dwarves, to fight off a titan after my previous embark team by complete accident stopped the wagon on a shrine and died. Fun!

B: If the need is not so urgent, skill layout comes down to what exploits I might use:

E1: Am I attacking wildlife with training weapons? If so, will not set armor user.

E2: Am I using bit of weaponsmithing/armorsmithing experience resulting in mood in it? I so, I might ditch getting a dedicated smith.

E3: Danger rooms. In 43.03, if using spear traps shield user is pointless to add. Dodger, even without the 43.05-compatible minecart danger-rooming, can be trained faster than embark demonstrations with 1 sparring pair in small room, so it's not a mvp to teach, although one of the better military skills anyway.

Without A,
I never put points into weapon skill, for weapon skill goes up far faster than purely defensive skills with sparring, even if it can take the place of shield skill in most engagements with dual-wielding (you've probably read my notes on this, too). This is also one reason why I like Picks as military weapons - demonstrations will be more likely about a defensive skill.

In that situation, I'll assuredly have some points in Teacher, and may give someone harder-to-train skill like Biter as well.

On that note, on sparring - I think (used to think - it seems to be that and extra skill some of the time - see below) it tends to start in earnest when fighter is competent, though it can start earlier.

Spoiler: 43.03 testing for minimum sparring skill threshold, spoilered for length (click to show/hide)

Given that miners can spar but not demonstrate mining, I'm not sure weapon skill affects this (though mining is trained by individual combat drill). A quick test embark, admittedly with not my usual setup:
3 dwarves set to Axe 5, Armor user 4, Shield User 1
3 dwarves set to Figher 3, Armor user 5, Axe 2, Shield User 1

Split into 3 squads/pairs with one, other or both, with Train, 10 Minimum for all. 1 training axe, over clothes for everyone.

All set to active and given 5x5 barracks with centres 38 tiles from each other on 20th granite, they spontaneously all activated on 22th.

Walled off the map, left the single leftover dwarf to gather plants from zone, set fps to 4000, and waited a bit.

...To my surprise, didn't get single one of them sparring till 3rd Malachite - mid-summer!

At 5th malachite, after ten pages of sparring for the mixed squad, I noted how much skills had increased so far

         Axe   Discipline   Dodger   Fighter   Shield
FighterA    1474   1593      134      849      75
FighterB   808   729      71         393      219
FighterC   1876   1831      155      847      1165
AxeA      1523   1808      165      2121      1340
AxeB      1776   2024      216      1782      794
AxeC      822   931      78         834      785

With squads of 12 34 56. FighterC/AxeA were the ones who sparred first, being significant for being the only squad at the time with both partners having competent discipline - just a few points over for both of them.

(None of the dwarves had armor or gain in armor user. None of them had a shield either, but it did increase for them. )


Confusingly, the next new sparring report came was FighterA - Axe A charged at her near AxeA,FigherC barracks, and somehow ended up knocking him over at the wagon diagonally 20 tiles away. As a result, he got dabbling wrestling, which soon was demonstrated to his squadmate.

Anyway, next  sparring pair was on 4th Limestone - start of autumn with Fighter A and B.

Interestingly, both had gotten adequate shield use at that point recently.  Otherwise, no other skills were freshly-upgraded.
||

On 26th Limestone, I got message that AxeA has become an Axe Lord (with Fighter C being 1,5 worse in axe, becoming a lord little less than month later, and both having merely novice dodger). At that point, FighterA and FighterB had yet to start sparring.

Axe B and C were last to start sparring on 11th timber - late autumn. After 12 pages of sparring, that was their skill setup:

||

Though worth noting, that their axe skills were still two better than pure fighter squad, with fighting experience 1,5 worse and similar levels, if bit worse, in other skills.

Not shown, but at this point I noticed they both had novice Obsever with bit more experience in it. Also interesting, the mixed squad had gotten no armor user experience, while both pure squads got some. Only hundred or two, but some.

So, WTB. This is definitely far worse timing than I expected. My Solstice embark, where I used mostly 5 Main skill/Fighter 2/Teacher 2/student 1 with 1 Fighter 5/Teacher 3/Leader 1/Student 1 had earliest sparring in first month. Hm.

Time to `die` and do another test embark. The immigrants/visitors with military skills have typically minimum of 3/1/1/1/1/1/1 setup of weapon/armor/shield/dodger/discipline/Observer/Climber.

So, two dwarves with that. Even though Climbing is rarely trained in fortress mode, and ...Okay, I can't give that on embark.

In solstice, the first spar had one of the members as the dude with fighter 5, and the other as someone who shot down an owl. So, two dwarves with Fighter 5/Teacher 3/Leader 1/Student 1

Finally, to test observer and shield user:

Two dwarves with Observer 5/Shield user 5.

Weapons and weapon skills...6 Copper picks. No mixed squads this time, either.

Proficent carpenter lets the 3 military buildings get up on 18th granite, activated on 19th.

The "standards" engaged in armor demonstration, despite having equal skill in it, others did drills. Aaand got sparring in that very same day: Namely, the two dwarves with Fighter 5/Teacher 3/Student 1/Leader 1.

Second sparring pair was the Shield User/Observer pair on 7th Galena. Hey, three days ago!

Surprisingly, they - and the two fighter 5s - had gotten no shield user exp, while the standard setup and everyone in previous test embark got some.

After 16 pages of sparring, they had Fighter/Teacher/Student/Leader at 3/0/0/0 - in fact, one of them had 20 teacher experience and 40 organizer, while other had 20 student/concentration, 40 leader and 120 organizer experience. They also had 4 and 3 Discipline....

Last two - "standard skill" pair didn't start sparring till 12th Sandstone - mid-autumn. Caught them 7 pages in

||

And also Teacher 1/2; Student 2/1; Organizer 1/1; Hm.

Ok, so I have at least 1 skill setup that starts sparring the day the barracks are up. Figher 3, Armor 5, Axe 2, Shield 1 didn't spar till 4th Limestone, but Observer/Shield took Fighter 3/Discipline 3/4 to spar...

Better do another test to find the absolute minimum

Pair A: 3/3 Fighter/Teacher

Pair B: 1/1/1/1 Fighter/Teacher/Student/Leader

Pair C: 1/1/1/3 Observer/Shield/Fighter/Discipline

Pair A started sparring immediately, on 19th Granite again. In fact, Onol got attached to his pick on 1st Felsite. Second one to spar were pair B on 6th Malachite, at which point they had 2 Discipline/3 Fighter/2 Miner and smattering of dabblings for other. Didn't wait for pair C at this point, instead doing another set of pairs.

Pair D: 3/1 Fighter/Teacher

Pair E: 3 Teacher

Pair F: 3/3/3/1 Observer/Shield/Fighter/Discipline

This time managed to shave off a day by changing alerts before last barracks was built.

For some reason, both D and F immediately engaged in dodging training and demonstrations. ...Oh, there's giant raven attacking a dog. `exterminate raven`. Anyway, got sparring on 21st Granite from both pair D and pair F. So, Fighter 3/Axe 2/Armor 5/Shield 1 no work, but Fighter 3 and 1 Teacher Or 3 Discipline/Observer/ 1 Shield (wasn't increased, though they had boosted it to 3,5ish by the time they reached legendary discipline) works?

Hm. Anyway, pair E started sparring on 19th Timber . At that point, they had Fighter 5/4; Discipline 5/3, Organizer 1/0 (barely; seems the dwarf who reached fighter first got all-around better skills), Miner 5/3. Watching them up to that point, they engaged in just individual combat drills until one of them reached novice fighter on 1st Felsite - I assume that they can't engage in group activities without anyhing to teach and will prioritize teaching over sparring.

Hm. Fighter/Teacher combination...I guess 2/1 is left out from above, but solstice had 5 dwarves out of 6 with fighter 2/teacher 2 and didn't start sparring right  away, so can be pretty certain of Competent Fighter + Novice Teacher.

Unanswered still is Fighter/Observer/Discipline/Shield User. 3/?/?/?

Pair G: 3/3 Fighter/Observer.

Pair H: 3/3 Fighter/Discipline

Pair I: 3/3 Fighter/Shield User


Got first-day sparring for Pair G and ...Pair I?‼?

Pair H engaged in some demonstrations and then went sparring on 21st Granite, so first day for pretty much all of them.

What. 3 Shield or Discipline or Observer is a-ok to spar, but 4/3 Axe or 5 armour user isn't?

I find that so hard to swallow I'm doing 3 more pairs:

Pair J: 3/3   Fighter/Axe with training axes

Pair K: 3/3   Fighter/Armor User with picks

Pair L: 3/3   Fighter/Axe with copper axes


Pair J,  L engage in immediate sparring (Though L likes to do demonstrations a lot). Also, got 23th Slate attachment to training axe. Jeez, that's just over a month.

Pair K started sparring on exactly first Hematite, with bonus level in Discipline, Fighter, Miner. Season change nudged them? Looking back, all but 1 sparring matches started early in the month.

...I'm left confused, though. FighterA,B,C skill setup equalled or eclipsed Pair K, yet they started later. Why?

Hey, look, discussion did begot something.

❷
Your builders are halfway military :v

I near always take a carpenter, as you know. Even on my last glacier embark, for I like embarking with fungiwood or occasionally tower-cap to make non-brown beds.

Though aesthetic-wise, stone/ore has the most colour choices.

❸
Skill-wise, the armour bonuses are pretty small. Weapons more than double between no-quality and masterwork, and there is the matter of attachment, but on the flip side even no-quality steel is sharper than anything normal and you can just use workflow and auto-melt to easily repeatedly make/smelt most weapons until you have all masterworks for your squad even with low-skill weaponsmith, provided they have good attributes or preferences.

As for your ores, do you expect to encounter steel-wielding enemies? Without steel, it's pretty hard to cut through bronze / copper over full bronze armour.

On that note, if you expect to use the weapons you start with on bronze and iron enemies, might want to start with steel or silver weapons.

So for a squad of four perhaps consider (1 iron ore, 4 flux) {4 steel weapons}, 5 bismuthine, 5 cassiterite, 10 malachite {4* mail shirt+helm+high boots+gauntlets(5)} and possibly 5 copper nuggets {4* copper greaves and breastplate}

That said, I personally go for, especially when using E1, bone+leather armour first, to get armour user experience sooner and easier.

17 minecartfulls...1 glassmaker, 1 kiln, 3 smelters, 3 forges, 1 garbage dump? Or are some carts for obsidian-casting workshops and whatnot?

❹
Outside of Doctoring, I'd probably not put points in those skills. Broker, the first caravan will give them enough experience to see item values just by arriving. Organizer, Record keeping also skill up pretty fast - heck, if you want legendary organizer, old trick is use a macro to queue up lots of orders that can't be tasked to a workshop, then delete them once they're validated.

Doctoring I currently favour enabling on everyone healthy and letting closest empathic dwarf handle it (might move to healthy religious dwarves if moving to combined hospital/non-meeting temple zone so that doctor doesn't walk away after job). Speed seems most important right now, though there's still that it doubles as library skills and that you need diagnostician 1 to see health screen.

❺
Making an artifact bed out of wood seems kind of a waste, even if beds are good pref of carpenter in general. Other needs would be hard-to-train skills. Theoretical only library skills in particular may need assigning new libraries and scholars until you get a peasant to pick your desired skill, and then they'll take years to train up from zero. Architecture, Animal Trainer are also ones I tend to take.

❻❼❽
You know I've done 1 worker + 6 military recently. Really forces one to prioritize, and with this bringing food and drink is really helpful. You can use the 6 military to build bunch of workshops or whatnot in the first 3 days while you're making a carpenter and cabinet, and building the cabinet.

Though if you want digging in particular, if you have substantial areas in soil might go for 6 diggers/military and 1 worker, then dig everything out at start (soil first, as then they'll dig rock faster). Picks make fine weapons and mooding as miner increases mining skill further, though no artifact weapon as a downside.

You can just deconstruct  the wagon (1 job) and place down 5x5 food stockpile with barrels set to 0. Can haul empty barrels to furniture stockpile later.

❾
Agreed on waiting for migrants for leather and clothing. Not going to need to start till 2 years in at the very least, and going to need to wait for second caravan to bring leather if you're ordering it instead of making it from egg-layers. The quality for few initial leather pieces for military doesn't matter too much - can replace later.