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Total Members Voted: 13

[E. Albright]

No more so than choosing not to deal with the various sprawling nations you've pointedly chosen not to deal with. At some point, the Bellum Ermora will end, and the only thing constraining the giants in the playground will be that there's 2-3 of them. For the small nations, it won't matter. They'll still lose.

I say again, the win percentages you cited are misleading and not overly representative. The stigma against Ermor is strong enough that there will be a self-selection towards stronger players taking it, and those numbers also come from diplo-light metas where a player can isolate individuals more easily and pick them off. That last part may seem like it contradicts what I'm saying about Ermor, but it actually doesn't; the pick-off-and-bloat works well for any nation - Ermor just has the "not worth the trouble for what I'll get out of it" reputation to help keep third nations from bogging them down in second fronts while they're eating weak, isolated neighbors. Ermor's advantages are psychological, not mechanical.

[etgfrog]

Mechanically, Ermor is free to use bane venom charms on the defensive without hurting production. Very little counter play for that, unless you count things like mind hunt, which has a counter that you have demonstrated, or earth attack, which requires very high end research. Also mechanically, Ermor is entirely uneffected by most of the scales in the game, more specifically, if there were two ermor nations, one with O3,P3,G3 and one with T3,S3,D3, the difference in army size would not be noticeable, so essentially bless, luck and magic is the only things that has any real effect.

I will have to correct myself, the difference between those two ermor nations I gave would end up being 1 fort.

[ThtblovesDF]

Emror wouldn't be a issue if you wouldn't be so gosh-darn good, E. Albright : *

[E. Albright]

etgfrog, as I've alluded to before, you're missing something very large in your calculations. I'm not going to point it out mid-game because that would be shooting myself in the foot even more than I already have, but I can't help being pedantic so I'll hand you the gun and tell you where to find the ammunition: go play some SP Ermor.

Aside from that, the flip side of everything you mention above is that freespawn popkill nations gain less than any other nation from conquest. Which is kinda a huge deal. To put it mildly. Even the BVC thing isn't that much of an issue if you're less given to defensive warfare (the overwhelming majority of MP players are, to the point where many loudly scoff at the idea of defending forts at all) or if you have border provinces that you don't GAD about. Also, is C'tis also overwhelming? Are the hard-to-invade, hard-to-siege water nations also overwhelming?

[etgfrog]

What? That dominion spawns the troops? I thought that is obvious, the reason why I mention forts is they protect your temples from attacks, temples out in the open are rather easy targets. More territories means more events and a minor increase in gem income. I also know that unholy knights only spawn at forts, which are a big threat. Regardless, you should have noticed during the sieges I've done, I've tried to remove your domain from your forts, which now I'll admit has been my goal, to remove your domain to reduce your troop generation. I'm also aware you have eluded that I should be taking all your territory before attacking the forts, but that doesn't work with ulm, all melee troops are map move 1, if I had moved up to take those two territories by the cave you would have marched an army into my territory and started pillaging.

Also, regarding c'tis, I've mentioned it before, I don't know much about them besides they have a disease spreading dominion that only affects non-sacreds, but I could also be wrong about that. Oceania...could pose a problem, but besides being a thorn, not much a threat in my opinion.

Anyways, the thing with bane venom charms, you can throw them into a lab then take them out anywhere a fort is about to be attacked. Oh, and if you think ermor is bad regarding micromanagement, try juggling 10 dwarven hammers that I am using in this game and outfitting almost every single commander with items.

[Jilladilla]

I'd rate Arco with their 'Lol what even is quality control?' mystics as #1 on the micromanagement hell chart.

Yes, I've played Ermor, not that bad. I've played 'recruit ALL the priests!' Sceleria, not that bad. EA/MA Agartha with its 'keep the troops outside the mass heat/poison auras' and 'cap only summon + Map Move 1 mages logistics', also not that bad.
Now, I will admit, I haven't really played MA Ulm, so I can't sympathize with you, but Arco? Played one match, and in spite of an excellent start begged for a sub halfway through, not because I didn't have time for the game, but in order to make the pain from trying to script the Mystics stop...

[Il Palazzo]

Also, regarding c'tis, I've mentioned it before, I don't know much about them besides they have a disease spreading dominion that only affects non-sacreds

I wish that were true in general, but the miasma affects all enemies, regardless of their sacred status.
I suspect the information about sacred exemption is relevant only in disciple games.

Since I'm not hearing much of anything regarding the hosting period change, I'll assume the silent majority agrees with me, and will set it to 72h.

[E. Albright]

Also, regarding c'tis, I've mentioned it before, I don't know much about them besides they have a disease spreading dominion that only affects non-sacreds, but I could also be wrong about that. Oceania...could pose a problem, but besides being a thorn, not much a threat in my opinion.

C'tis has a dominion that has roughly a 1%-per-candle-per-turn to disease any unit without cold blood, swamp survival, or that is not a friendly sacred/pretender/disciple.  It also grants them +1% income per candle, and penalizes enemy provinces with -5% income per candle. All of the above only applies on land, mind. They are less of a starvation threat to invade than a popkill nation is, but they have the equivalent of a BVC-ish everywhere without killing off population, and recruitable non-mindless troops to man walls if that's their thing (and the nature magic to feed them, and/or to summon ALL the wolves)... and national assassins (albeit cap-only) to strike from inside the walls at sieging forces. They're lots of !FUN! to invade if their player is someone who is willing to go turtle. Ask, um, Il Palazzo...

Oceania has water. That lets them hit you and not get hit back. You know all your pretty only-defended-by-PD temples you've strewn about the lakeshore? Gone at their leisure unless you fort or manually garrison them. Oh, you want to hit back? Have fun summoning enough amphibians that aren't garbage to kill their quite-strong-underwater troops, and/or forging enough waterbreathing items that you can bring your not-as-good-underwater national mages to try to compensate for their quite-strong-underwater mages. And then you still have to siege down their forts with your limited troops or whatever indy chaff you recruit. With R'lyeh or Atlantis or such, the normal order is "containment", but the sea goats are mostly stealthy, so they can sneak onto land and raid away from shore unless you sink a whole lot into shore patrols - which they can hammer pretty well with proper troops (that they can assemble stealthily), and most maps are structured in a way that they can hit a lot of different provinces all across the map relatively quickly.

This is a very, very weird match, politically speaking. It's a really bad one to try to generalize from; we've had very little and very limited war. When the real powers on the map (which are not and never have been you or me) start to move to win, things will get very ugly very fast, and neither my limited-by-time chaff nor your limited-by-gold-and-resources blockers and limited-by-gold-and-fort-turns mages will be more than a speed bump - or perhaps in my case, a pothole to drive around since my lands are barren, turtled, and nearly devoid of thrones.

I've played 'recruit ALL the priests!' Sceleria, not that bad.

Sceleria only gets REALLY fun when you take the next step and make it "recruit ALL the priests (and give them Amulets of the Dead)".

[etgfrog]

This is a very, very weird match, politically speaking. It's a really bad one to try to generalize from; we've had very little and very limited war. When the real powers on the map (which are not and never have been you or me) start to move to win, things will get very ugly very fast, and neither my limited-by-time chaff nor your limited-by-gold-and-resources blockers and limited-by-gold-and-fort-turns mages will be more than a speed bump - or perhaps in my case, a pothole to drive around since my lands are barren, turtled, and nearly devoid of thrones.

Probably wars and battles that aren't being posted. Regardless, ulm troops are only blockers when compared to dual plus bless sacreds. Apparently in dominions 5, MA ulm is overpowered, but that is just what I've heard. Probably has to due with ulm troops getting the magic armor trait which makes it repair without resources after battles, it could also be heavy bless in general has been nerfed. While that is a bit off topic, I do know I am a roadblock to a throne victory, so I am curious what will get brought to attack.

Oh...right, ulm master smiths are considered a cheap mage by recruitment standards, so multiple master smiths per turn per fort, as well as having access to the largest forts in the game.

[Il Palazzo]

Turn postponed by 6h for Marignon.

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

Yeah no, I missed it, at work for that whole 6 hours. Thanksgiving season and what not.

Edit: Quick rollback in progress

[ThtblovesDF]

6h was a bit short, no worrys.

Not much going on under the seas, how is everyone else doing? Anyone wants to buy some bags of wine? Fire Gems? Pan-Strikes? Maggots?

And if anyone plays dom5, did they adjust how casters react to enemy army size? Will they define a SC as worthy of the set spells?

And now the turns take fooooreeever

[Jilladilla]

Right, right, I have my turn more or less finalized, I just never sent it in... For some reason... I'm going over it just in case I did some idiocy or procrastinated on things.


That said, Akhier, get moving, not a lot of time left before the deadline!

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

Sorry, been a bit of time at the grocery store I work at. Apparently thanksgiving is somewhat of a busy time. I will have my turn in later today hopefully.

[Il Palazzo]

I've postponed by another 6 hours. However, I have to say: this is getting ridiculous - for the past month or so the turns have been taking in excess of twice as long as the deadlines would indicate, and its mostly on Akhier.

Please, Akhier. If keeping up is too much of a strain on you due to whatever is going on in RL, just say so, and we'll try an find a replacement. Don't treat the game like we're here to indulge you.