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Total Members Voted: 13

[E. Albright]

In case anyone is curious, a three-times-normal size markata is huge and kinda frightening (yeti for scale):

[Hatman]

Please stop having good mod ideas right before dominions 5 comes out.

[ThtblovesDF]

Re: Tatarians r bad. _{I am bad at Dominions.}

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That Bless sure is something...

[E. Albright]

Tartarians? Oh, my sweet summer child...

(If you're fighting Ermor, Pythium, Marignon, or C'tis, and you capture a province with an Ancient Temple, always check the event log to make sure nothing untoward is going on. Especially Ermor.)

[Marmaduke]

I don't understand, is it one of Ermor's units that you have faced ThtblovesDF?
How do we kill it, we need something that is not MR. Stellar Cascades?

[Il Palazzo]

I want to know what that is too!

[etgfrog]

Tartarians? Oh, my sweet summer child...

(If you're fighting Ermor, Pythium, Marignon, or C'tis, and you capture a province with an Ancient Temple, always check the event log to make sure nothing untoward is going on. Especially Ermor.)

Yep, I saw that provinence, but I saw no log on the few times I held it until a random group of skeletons joined me, I also saw the mummy in a neighboring territory that same turn, but by that point it was too late. Regardless, bringing such an insulting meme in here is a going a bit far with gloating.

I want to know what that is too!

To be quite honest, iron darts and iron blizzard is the only spells that I know of that flat out ignores blood vengeance. I also don't have an anti-sc up, so I doubt I could do much to it. At least frost brand's splash damage is armor piercing, which should mostly get resisted by the black plate troops. The other unfortunate thing is I don't think the priest smiths will focus fire on it with iron blizzard.

[Il Palazzo]

No, I wanna know what is that thing. How does one get one?
I'm a monkey nation, so I'd just blast it with enslave mind. Not even 25 mr will help, if you provide enough dakka.

And why is it wearing a snake ring? Don't undead have innate poison resist?

[E. Albright]

IP: http://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspector/?page=event&loadEvents=1&armorq=tow&wpnq=club&unittype=4&itemq=jade&showids=1&siteq=kelp&unitq=tart&spellq=run&eventq=at%20last!

(It's wearing a Snake Ring because Capricorns can do things like spam Maggots. In that battle, they most certainly did.)

etgfrog: gloating? Right, 'cause I totally RNG so much better than Thbt. That's not a Tartarian. I can't summon Tartarians, and trying to impress upon others the idea that I can is neither honest nor forthright - hence the tone. Past that, it's all my leet RNG skills. *buffs knuckles on shirt*

[ThtblovesDF]

I don't think you can spam maggots, its a battlefield enchantment, so one cast and thats it... same for "ravounous swarm", there seems to be no need to cast it more then once...

Right?

Right?

[etgfrog]

I don't think you can spam maggots, its a battlefield enchantment, so one cast and thats it... same for "ravounous swarm", there seems to be no need to cast it more then once...

Right?

Right?

I think creeping doom is more specified. It summons a bunch of random stuff, half of which is poisonous.

etgfrog: gloating? Right, 'cause I totally RNG so much better than Thbt. That's not a Tartarian. I can't summon Tartarians, and trying to impress upon others the idea that I can is neither honest nor forthright - hence the tone. Past that, it's all my leet RNG skills. *buffs knuckles on shirt*

Gloating was the wrong word to be used there. Regardless, that thing is on par with Tartarians, except without the magic paths. Being a large blood vengance/regening evocation magnet is what specifically I was saying was so scary about them. I know your trying to encourage the idea that they are expensive, but even if you just simply put a shroud on every useable tart, it becomes both cheap(13 gems) and very scary when supplementing your mix of chaff and elite units. Because broken soul gives some nasty effects like destroy temple, you will probably end up kicking them out to the enemy territory right away.

[ThtblovesDF]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Maggots
Combat
N1
spell id:    665
range:    20
area of effect:    One person
number of effects:    1
precision:    100
fatigue cost:    100-
gems required:    1N
Poison (Mortal):   50
 
(Armor Negating, Ignores Shields, Hard to Hit Ethereal, May Use Underwater, Affects Undead Only)
The mage conjures thousands of maggots, which will start to feed upon an undead being. The maggots will slowly but surely consume the undead. Large undead can survive the maggots by removing them after they have become satiated. Ethereal undead are rarely affected by the spell.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Ravenous Swarm
Combat
N3
spell id:    916
number of effects:    1
fatigue cost:    100-
gems required:    1N
Enchant Battlefield | Enchant World:   Ravenous Swarm
This spell is sometimes used by nature mages to combat the undead. It is part of the natural order that the living finds sustenance from the dead, and with this spell the nature mage utilizes that and imbues a swarm of bugs with frenzied power and appetite to devour the walking dead. The swarm will consume the undead one after each other until the battle ends. Should the swarm fail to locate the dead it will start to eat the living instead.

Maggots only kill one and Ravenous Swarm should never be cast more then once / battle, since it doesn't stack.

[E. Albright]

etgfrog: 15. We're not all Ulm, or even earth-heavy. Sorry, but the rote "forging cost = forging cost - 2" presumption that crops up in sooooo many online discussions is an irrationally irritating pet peeve for me.

Thbt: One cast of Maggots is hardly going to kill something REALLY big. Not that I should really be trying to correct you in this case. ;p

[etgfrog]

Ah, good point, the mages would use that on the largest creature in range, and potentially stack it.

Lets look at the major anti-thug spells.
Petrify: E5 MR negates instant death
Maggot: N1 1 gem Anti-undead poison
Ravenous swarm: N3 1 gem battlefield Maggot each turn? (I never got around to testing it)
Disintigrate: D2 MR negates instant death
Infernal prison/claws of kokytos: B3 F1 or W1 they are gone for a year with a chance? of dying
Life for a life: B3 large amount of unresistable damage
I can see why you would kit the mummy out to be that way. There is no blood nations in the game unless they have managed to develop into one.

etgfrog: 15. We're not all Ulm, or even earth-heavy. Sorry, but the rote "forging cost = forging cost - 2" presumption that crops up in sooooo many online discussions is an irrationally irritating pet peeve for me.

Ok, I generally operate by assuming then plan for the worst and hope for the best. The worst case would be you managed to acquire a dwarven hammer. Unlike single player games, trading and scheming is a thing in multiplayer. There are 3 nations in game with that kind of earth access, you also have minor earth, although the chance of you getting E2 is very slim. It is entirely in the realm of possibility of you having a dwarven hammer.

But this is avoiding the elephant in the room that is tartarians with a shroud are very cheap for the power you get. Especially when the counters will be 1 time use due to blood vengeance. Factoring a rather generous 25% of them will effectively be useless puts it at an average cost of 13 gems per usable tart, add onto 1 of the tarts is a flying man eater with only a helm slot bumps it up to 15 death gems per thugable tartarian. Throw on a shround for 5 astral gems, so 20 gems. That is still insanely strong for the cost.

[Il Palazzo]

Ravenous swarm: N3 1 gem battlefield Maggot each turn? (I never got around to testing it)

No, it summons an effect that appears on top of one of the undead present, and causes some damage (with a 'crunch'), and then moves on to another one once the current target is dead. IIRC, it attacks the whole square, and does enough damage in one crunch to kill regular-to-middling undead, but not the stronger ones. I don't know if it triggers BV.

Maggots simply adds poison damage. I used to think it was ignoring the innate resistances, but it kinda seems like it's just v. high damage, so it punches through, with enough left for some ~35 ish poison per casting (w/o snake ring). For a 200 hp undead + regen, that'd take a good few mage-rounds.

Best way to counter either is also the easiest one: haul some undead chaff with your undead SC.