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noooo?

5 (38.5%)

YES!!!

8 (61.5%)

Total Members Voted: 13

[E. Albright]

It's a battlefield enchantment. To my memory, none of those count as direct attacks, as evinced by their failure to impact the caster's kill total.

On the subject of SCs, I have very fond memories of fighting Ermor as Agartha in 4.01 and more-or-less winning or losing battles based on how soon (and just as much to the point, if) their 4-10 Disintegrates that were in range per turn managed to punch through my rampaging Golems' and/or Oracles' silly-high MR. The most memorable for me was one siege storming when they got luck and dropped my MR 36-or-so Golem on turn 6 after a measly 45 or 55 casts. After the next patch came out and changed the RNG seed, I rewatched the battle and I wanna say it survived ~500-600 before the undead hit autorout at turn 50.

[ThtblovesDF]

I mean if I wasn't a half-assing fish-goat I would just grab some evo, hit the big stuff with a suicide earthquake-pan and the small stuff with cleansing water.

But as long as there are not to many undead-bones in the water, why shift away from my silly-but-fun research goals : )?

[E. Albright]

But this is avoiding the elephant in the room that is tartarians with a shroud are very cheap for the power you get. Especially when the counters will be 1 time use due to blood vengeance. Factoring a rather generous 25% of them will effectively be useless puts it at an average cost of 13 gems per usable tart, add onto 1 of the tarts is a flying man eater with only a helm slot bumps it up to 15 death gems per thugable tartarian. Throw on a shround for 5 astral gems, so 20 gems. That is still insanely strong for the cost.

Incidentally, I think you should really spend a bit of time in Debug Mod; TG is not half the spell you think it is, and/or are being told it is by guides that never got over Dom3. 5m in Debug Mod got me 100 casts of TG. 77 of the 100 were non-commanders. Of the commanders, 21 had body slots, 20 weren't injured to the point of being animate walls, and 8 weren't Feebleminded. Don't forget, Feeblemind gives the gift that keeps on giving, which is to say -5 MR. But even if we count the MR 13 tarts as equal to the MR 18s, on average you're going to be spending ~50 gems to get one that's out-of-the-box thuggable by the criteria you laid out - plus 5 gems for the shroud. At that point, you're better off going with GoR/DN if you have access and with THAT assumption, we still only have a 75% level of usability [(6/7 has-bodies) * (7/8 not-useless-broken)]. So it's an average of 13d + 20n + 5s or 13d + 30s - and at that level of investment, I'm not overly keen on sending out a Feebleminded present to my enemies, so let's rule those out, even though it makes it even worse. So [(6/7 has-bodies) * (1/3 has-brains)] gives us ~35d + 20n + 5s or ~35d + 30s, plus 6 mage-turns - 4 of which are D7.

This is not an amount any sane person would be spending for a thug.

Even before we consider the other half of this which I don't want to get into because it'd be doing you job of beating me for you, your fears are vastly overstated.

[etgfrog]

After trying the debug mod, I got up to 60 casts of it, then the game crashed for some reason, your correct, majority of them ended up feeble minded with 12 being usable, even then almost all them had afflictions of various types. Although I still think ermor is the largest threat because of the uncapped growth potential with just a small territory.

[ThtblovesDF]

It feels like you are saying a bad undead-god is worth 0 gems, but its still a ok gem use even for "just" a huge dude.

PS: Time is running out for Agarthas turn...

New turn, not much going on.

Are cavemen ever worth it? Sure 25 hp, high strenght and... 1 resource. But even with buffs, they are just going to die after 2 hits, like everything else. Mass Regeneration is to high up the research tree and all that...

[Jilladilla]

Are cavemen worth it? I'd say no. Too expensive for a frail unit, and naked Pale Ones teach you very quick that just being a blob of hp (at a significantly better HP/gold ratio too!) is not a good way to tank damage.


Also, that battle at High Peaks.... Wow... Such devastation for both sides...
Also, the giant Divine Mummy we were all freaking out about? Died like a chump, didn't even take anything with it. (Ok, it may have taken an a few archers with it, I wasn't paying close attention to those, ok?)

[ThtblovesDF]

Sadly I missed the battle, we got any after action reports with lovly bias?

[etgfrog]

I shouldn't have looked at the forums before viewing the turn. I got spoiled knowing how it went. I'm guessing the 10 just man crossbows was overkill doing 45 armor piercing damage each.

Spoiler: battle images (click to show/hide)

I decided to start off with all my priest smiths casting iron blizzard to try to take out a good chunk of the lictors before they got blessed, which worked.

It was about turn 12 when the mummy got hit with 4 bolts from the crossbows.

[Il Palazzo]

You won that? Well done.

[etgfrog]

You won that? Well done.

No, I lost, but...


Those mages were casting skeleton spells, which prevented ermor from hp routing.

[Il Palazzo]

Ayup, that's a lot of properly dead knights and lictors.

[E. Albright]

Does this mean we can finally have Ulm stop freaking out about how it's a desperate and nigh-hopeless candle in the wind for attacking a nation that it is (and has been) properly stronger than if it doesn't make a pile of unforced errors?

And can we also be done with acting like this is Dom3 on the eve of Dom5's release? It gets soooo tiring.

Incidentally, etgfrog, this is why you are - and have been - a far greater threat to your neighbors than I am or have been. I have nothing resembling uncapped growth potential, but in the interest of encouraging more unforced errors (with the admitted side effect of possibly inducing more hyperventilation about how outmatched you are), I'm not going to point out the (should-be-extremely-obvious) reasons why this isn't true. 

[ThtblovesDF]

You did more damage in that battle then I was able to do this entire time, good job!

Share the secret of metal with me next Age, eh?

[Marmaduke]

Wow, that is indeed impressive. Ermor has 10 knights and 31 lictors left after the battle.

[ThtblovesDF]

Akhier Dragonheart // Marignon is facing a about equally sized force on there flank and since C'tis retreated its not been going super swell.

I would be ok with a Emror-in-exile however.