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[Smoke Mirrors]

I'm still against going into people's lungs as smoke and suffocating them.

So don't do that! Enter them in smoke form and then revert, appearing where they were in an explosion of gore!

I'm also against that, and we don't even know of it would work!

[codybob1999]

I'm still against going into people's lungs as smoke and suffocating them.

So don't do that! Enter them in smoke form and then revert, appearing where they were in an explosion of gore!

I'm also against that, and we don't even know of it would work!

So you are gonna gib the enemies to death?

Code: [Select]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=GibbingIncase spme one doesn't know what gibbing is

[blueturtle1134]

Anyway, in response to the coin thing - are we absolutely sure the Sindari are the good guys? Because from what I can see what we've been doing is just random acts of terrorism that usually harm the common man more than the Cisharni.

Like the grain thing for example - Atlantis tries to help an ally in trouble, but we destroy vital food, unfairly color opinion against them, and leave Rome to starve or be destroyed.

[Chevaleresse]

This is why I picked a place and just started solving problems.

[Sir Elventide]

Anyway, in response to the coin thing - are we absolutely sure the Sindari are the good guys? Because from what I can see what we've been doing is just random acts of terrorism that usually harm the common man more than the Cisharni.

Like the grain thing for example - Atlantis tries to help an ally in trouble, but we destroy vital food, unfairly color opinion against them, and leave Rome to starve or be destroyed.

Oh you sweet, naive child. Tis life that's full of contradictions. Some bad guys have good publicity and control their subjects through bread and circuses while decimating helpless cities on the side while some good guys seek to help the oppressed, even if they have to get their hands dirty. Our terrorists is their freedom fighters after all...

[blueturtle1134]

Oh yeah that's true, but look at it from the Cisharni perspective. You are born in the world and your god creates a beautiful island for you. Over time you note that the countries around you are ruled by brutal systems of government and engaged in petty warfare, so you embark on expeditions to liberate the people and unite the cities into one glorious nation. You share your technology and magic with the people, bringing them into an age of peace and prosperity never dreamed of.

For a few hundred years all is well... until a vengeful god appears, threatening to destroy your city with some cataclysmic disaster. This would end not only your lives, of course, but those of hundreds of common people living aside you. He threatens to kill your families and destroy the greatest beacon of civilization and learning in half the world. Your divine patron intervenes but only manages to talk him into a horrific compromise - step down as the rulers of your country and watch as it falls to war and greed and the stupidity of mortal rulers.

Confronted with such a Morton's fork, what should you do? Well, take a third option, of course. Your god cannot defeat the other one, so you take matters into your own hands. Although your entire people dedicate themselves to this project, your success is by no means guaranteed, and failure means the loss of your immortal lives. But you succeed. You succeed in the greatest feat of strength and courage, willpower and ingenuity, that the world has ever known. You summon the vengeful god in a form that you can actually fight, binding him to the world, and when the dust clears the greatest enemy your people have faced is no more.

At least, you think, until you get word that he has transferred his essence into a small cult he lured from your people, brainwashing them into hatred of everything you have made. You might even find that a close friend of yours, investigating this cult, has been possessed by your ancient enemy, his old personality obliterated and his form twisted into a weapon against you. And they go about, using dark magic to incite your people to madness, to force your generals to fight each other, to starve your people in order to slander your government and gain rebel troops which they instantly plan to sacrifice to fuel their own ends.

I'm not saying that the Cisharni are good (specifically, they're self-important mind-raping SOBs) but you need to realize that with a few small shifts in perspective they aren't the bad guys. And that Cish and Sind aren't any different really, and that the only reason we hate Atlantis is that Sind told us to.

Had we found ourselves in the towers of Atlantis with the entire world open before us, would we be any different than them?

[Madman198237]

You've forgotten the iron bootheels they like to keep everyone squished under, and the decadence and corruption.

Oh, and the fact that that's not actually how the history of the two went, IIRC.

[blueturtle1134]

You've forgotten the iron bootheels they like to keep everyone squished under, and the decadence and corruption.

Oh, and the fact that that's not actually how the history of the two went, IIRC.

Iron fist yes, but if we're supposed to believe that they're decadent and corrupt the GM had better show evidence of that. They're close to Designated Villian territory at this point. Give me one scene where the Cisharni are acting for anything other than the longevity of their empire or enjoying life without care.

And from the OP I'm pretty sure it went "Sind wants to nuke Atlantis, Cish tells him to settle for the Cisharni stepping down"

[codybob1999]

Oh yeah that's true, but look at it from the Cisharni perspective. You are born in the world and your god creates a beautiful island for you. Over time you note that the countries around you are ruled by brutal systems of government and engaged in petty warfare, so you embark on expeditions to liberate the people and unite the cities into one glorious nation. You share your technology and magic with the people, bringing them into an age of peace and prosperity never dreamed of.

For a few hundred years all is well... until a vengeful god appears, threatening to destroy your city with some cataclysmic disaster. This would end not only your lives, of course, but those of hundreds of common people living aside you. He threatens to kill your families and destroy the greatest beacon of civilization and learning in half the world. Your divine patron intervenes but only manages to talk him into a horrific compromise - step down as the rulers of your country and watch as it falls to war and greed and the stupidity of mortal rulers.

Confronted with such a Morton's fork, what should you do? Well, take a third option, of course. Your god cannot defeat the other one, so you take matters into your own hands. Although your entire people dedicate themselves to this project, your success is by no means guaranteed, and failure means the loss of your immortal lives. But you succeed. You succeed in the greatest feat of strength and courage, willpower and ingenuity, that the world has ever known. You summon the vengeful god in a form that you can actually fight, binding him to the world, and when the dust clears the greatest enemy your people have faced is no more.

At least, you think, until you get word that he has transferred his essence into a small cult he lured from your people, brainwashing them into hatred of everything you have made. You might even find that a close friend of yours, investigating this cult, has been possessed by your ancient enemy, his old personality obliterated and his form twisted into a weapon against you. And they go about, using dark magic to incite your people to madness, to force your generals to fight each other, to starve your people in order to slander your government and gain rebel troops which they instantly plan to sacrifice to fuel their own ends.

I'm not saying that the Cisharni are good (specifically, they're self-important mind-raping SOBs) but you need to realize that with a few small shifts in perspective they aren't the bad guys. And that Cish and Sind aren't any different really, and that the only reason we hate Atlantis is that Sind told us to.

Had we found ourselves in the towers of Atlantis with the entire world open before us, would we be any different than them?

It is almost like both sides are fucked up

[Smoke Mirrors]

Orion's personality is far from gone, he just doesn't have any human friends. He's plenty friendly with his wolves. Also, I already compared us to The Matrix in that anyone fighting the government is a terrorist, but I think that was in the Discord. Whatever the case, that's one of the reasons I stay out of our shit, and don't want to use the gib attack. I have a hard time playing ruthless, so I play it as Rigel still having some lingering sense of connection to the Cisharni worshippers. Of course, the extended backstory reveals that he wasn't the biggest fan of the principals of Cisharni worship, or of most Cisharni.

[Tiruin]

Oh yeah that's true, but look at it from the Cisharni perspective. You are born in the world and your god creates a beautiful island for you. Over time you note that the countries around you are ruled by brutal systems of government and engaged in petty warfare, so you embark on expeditions to liberate the people and unite the cities into one glorious nation. You share your technology and magic with the people, bringing them into an age of peace and prosperity never dreamed of.

For a few hundred years all is well... until a vengeful god appears, threatening to destroy your city with some cataclysmic disaster. This would end not only your lives, of course, but those of hundreds of common people living aside you. He threatens to kill your families and destroy the greatest beacon of civilization and learning in half the world. Your divine patron intervenes but only manages to talk him into a horrific compromise - step down as the rulers of your country and watch as it falls to war and greed and the stupidity of mortal rulers.

Confronted with such a Morton's fork, what should you do? Well, take a third option, of course. Your god cannot defeat the other one, so you take matters into your own hands. Although your entire people dedicate themselves to this project, your success is by no means guaranteed, and failure means the loss of your immortal lives. But you succeed. You succeed in the greatest feat of strength and courage, willpower and ingenuity, that the world has ever known. You summon the vengeful god in a form that you can actually fight, binding him to the world, and when the dust clears the greatest enemy your people have faced is no more.

At least, you think, until you get word that he has transferred his essence into a small cult he lured from your people, brainwashing them into hatred of everything you have made. You might even find that a close friend of yours, investigating this cult, has been possessed by your ancient enemy, his old personality obliterated and his form twisted into a weapon against you. And they go about, using dark magic to incite your people to madness, to force your generals to fight each other, to starve your people in order to slander your government and gain rebel troops which they instantly plan to sacrifice to fuel their own ends.

I'm not saying that the Cisharni are good (specifically, they're self-important mind-raping SOBs) but you need to realize that with a few small shifts in perspective they aren't the bad guys. And that Cish and Sind aren't any different really, and that the only reason we hate Atlantis is that Sind told us to.

Had we found ourselves in the towers of Atlantis with the entire world open before us, would we be any different than them?

It is almost like both sides are fucked up

To poke that last question: OBVIOUSLY.
It's pretty blatant that the perspective here, sadly, doesn't match that of the Cisharni...especially given the wise secondborn's...offer as one prime indicator. It's like bringing an ancient 'slavery is ok' or at least pre-humanism perspective in contrast to what our Sindari perspective is. The antithesis of progressional perspective.

I mean sympathizing is a very good way to dehumanize dehumanization, but it's not that applicable in this manner in context. If there's anyway to sympathize us to them, it's to put the thinking separate from the people; behavior dissociated from the person.

[Smoke Mirrors]

Oh yeah that's true, but look at it from the Cisharni perspective. You are born in the world and your god creates a beautiful island for you. Over time you note that the countries around you are ruled by brutal systems of government and engaged in petty warfare, so you embark on expeditions to liberate the people and unite the cities into one glorious nation. You share your technology and magic with the people, bringing them into an age of peace and prosperity never dreamed of.

For a few hundred years all is well... until a vengeful god appears, threatening to destroy your city with some cataclysmic disaster. This would end not only your lives, of course, but those of hundreds of common people living aside you. He threatens to kill your families and destroy the greatest beacon of civilization and learning in half the world. Your divine patron intervenes but only manages to talk him into a horrific compromise - step down as the rulers of your country and watch as it falls to war and greed and the stupidity of mortal rulers.

Confronted with such a Morton's fork, what should you do? Well, take a third option, of course. Your god cannot defeat the other one, so you take matters into your own hands. Although your entire people dedicate themselves to this project, your success is by no means guaranteed, and failure means the loss of your immortal lives. But you succeed. You succeed in the greatest feat of strength and courage, willpower and ingenuity, that the world has ever known. You summon the vengeful god in a form that you can actually fight, binding him to the world, and when the dust clears the greatest enemy your people have faced is no more.

At least, you think, until you get word that he has transferred his essence into a small cult he lured from your people, brainwashing them into hatred of everything you have made. You might even find that a close friend of yours, investigating this cult, has been possessed by your ancient enemy, his old personality obliterated and his form twisted into a weapon against you. And they go about, using dark magic to incite your people to madness, to force your generals to fight each other, to starve your people in order to slander your government and gain rebel troops which they instantly plan to sacrifice to fuel their own ends.

I'm not saying that the Cisharni are good (specifically, they're self-important mind-raping SOBs) but you need to realize that with a few small shifts in perspective they aren't the bad guys. And that Cish and Sind aren't any different really, and that the only reason we hate Atlantis is that Sind told us to.

Had we found ourselves in the towers of Atlantis with the entire world open before us, would we be any different than them?

It is almost like both sides are fucked up

To poke that last question: OBVIOUSLY.
It's pretty blatant that the perspective here, sadly, doesn't match that of the Cisharni...especially given the wise secondborn's...offer as one prime indicator. It's like bringing an ancient 'slavery is ok' or at least pre-humanism perspective in contrast to what our Sindari perspective is. The antithesis of progressional perspective.

I mean sympathizing is a very good way to dehumanize dehumanization, but it's not that applicable in this manner in context. If there's anyway to sympathize us to them, it's to put the thinking separate from the people; behavior dissociated from the person.

To connect to this, I'm reading Merchant of Venice for my English class, and the fact of the matter is, that any of the main characters, if put I'm modern day, would be considered total and complete assholes for their casual racism, and constant belittlement of Jews. The Cisharni represent old ideals, and we represent new ideals. To them, those are alright, but to us, they are wrong. Neither side is completely good or bad, this is a battle of grey vs grey, and war isn't fun for either side. Neither of us are the heroes, but we are closer to it than they are.

[Sir Elventide]

It's like Grey vs. Black, only that the Grey has some lighter and darker spots while the Black has slightly lighter spots, like the Secondborn favoring some form of coexistence with the Sindari, even if it's of the forceful assimilation variety.

[Sudurandom]

I'm thinking I should probably go to support Dragons tooth.

I don't know how many soul gems I'll have but this is the plan I'm thinking of using:
5 gems reserved to cover my retreat.
Up to 30 gems to counter act Cisharni magic and to call down lightning on their mages and the spartans.
Store any other gems I have where other sindari can get them if I die.

Any problems or improvements you guys can think of?

[Madman198237]

I should go do...something. I'll need to be on-hand for the fortress defense. Operating from a safe distance. Soul-gem-powered mind-magic, perhaps. Any Spartans or similarly powerful troops should be easy targets (not going to go after Apollo unless it becomes extremely necessary).


No Sindari should remain in that fortress, it's almost certainly going to fall because of the magic the Cisharni can bring to bear. However, it'll still cost them unless they break out the EXTREME magic, and then we've got a propaganda weapon AND we've forced them to expend some serious power.