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Author Topic: Hive Race: The Hive  (Read 40196 times)

flazeo25

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #330 on: August 18, 2017, 04:41:00 pm »

Quote from: Votes
Revision 1
Spiked Tail-Hunter (0)
Acid Symbionts (6) Strongpoint, Blood_Librarian, flazeo25, Draignean, NUKE9.13, MonkeyMarkMario
Warrior-Hunter coordination (0)

Revision 2
No Second Revision (3) Shadowclaw, NUKE9.13, Wolfchild
Spiked Tail-Hunter (1) RAM
Acid Symbionts (0)
Warrior-Hunter coordination (1) strongpoint
Biological Springs (3): Draignean, 10ebbor10, flazeo25
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Strongpoint

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #331 on: August 18, 2017, 04:43:00 pm »

Quote from: Votes
Revision 1
Spiked Tail-Hunter (0)
Acid Symbionts (6) Strongpoint, Blood_Librarian, flazeo25, Draignean, NUKE9.13, MonkeyMarkMario
Warrior-Hunter coordination (0)

Revision 2
No Second Revision (3) Shadowclaw, NUKE9.13, Wolfchild
Spiked Tail-Hunter (1) RAM
Acid Symbionts (0)
Warrior-Hunter coordination (0)
Biological Springs (4): Draignean, 10ebbor10, strongpoint, flazeo25

I like spring. Maybe a bit too ambitious with humans flying around but I think GM can always scale down the effect depending on the roll.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 04:46:40 pm by Strongpoint »
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Draignean

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #332 on: August 18, 2017, 04:44:04 pm »

I can honestly run that back, I just wanted to include the caveat that it was best suited to hard targets rather than as a replacement for the standard attack, and the structure of that seemed to demand that I say something positive at the end.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #333 on: August 18, 2017, 04:51:44 pm »

Our soldier has the strength of an ox. Sending things flying is not that ambitious.
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flazeo25

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #334 on: August 18, 2017, 04:54:41 pm »

sending them hurtling into their own men sounds fun.
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kopout

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #335 on: August 18, 2017, 05:31:35 pm »

I honestly think biological springs should be our only revision,saving one die for strategy or the next round.
Quote from: Votes
Revision 1
Spiked Tail-Hunter (0)
Acid Symbionts (6) Strongpoint, Blood_Librarian, flazeo25, Draignean, NUKE9.13, MonkeyMarkMario
Warrior-Hunter coordination (0)

Revision 2
No Second Revision (3) Shadowclaw, NUKE9.13, Wolfchild
Spiked Tail-Hunter (1) RAM
Acid Symbionts (0)
Warrior-Hunter coordination (0)
Biological Springs (5): Draignean, 10ebbor10, strongpoint, flazeo25, kopout

=
Our current problems are :
1) Besieging stuff
2) Worker attrition
3) Mages getting problematic
  I came up with a potential fix for 3 that got totally ignored.
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...although I've been having so much fun failing at this I just about forgot what my original aim was.

10ebbor10

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #336 on: August 18, 2017, 05:46:03 pm »

Because it wouldn't have worked. Our faction is a faction that can not use magic. Sticking the label of telepathy on something doesn't change that.
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kopout

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #337 on: August 18, 2017, 05:49:48 pm »

Except that we explicitly use telepathy already as part of our basic loadout.
Telepathy         All drones in the hive are linked via short-range telepathy, acting as relays for other drones further away.  They do not communicate verbally or by writing.

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"Karl Marx: Family jewels"
"Everyone's equally less rich than me!"
Quote from: Lezard
...although I've been having so much fun failing at this I just about forgot what my original aim was.

10ebbor10

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #338 on: August 18, 2017, 05:57:31 pm »

My point is that you label it telepathy, when it blatantly isn't. It's a confusion spell, the exact same as the enemy uses upon us now.
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kopout

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #339 on: August 18, 2017, 06:03:45 pm »

Its weaponizing and ability we already have. The fact that it would have similar effect to what the enemy is doing with magic is irrelevant.  If they had a fly spell would you be against us using wings? If they had water breathing would you be against us having gills? If Iituem says we can't do then that's something else entirely but I thought the whole point of the game was to come up with good solutions to problems with what we have to work with.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 06:24:59 pm by kopout »
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"Karl Marx: Family jewels"
"Everyone's equally less rich than me!"
Quote from: Lezard
...although I've been having so much fun failing at this I just about forgot what my original aim was.

RAM

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #340 on: August 18, 2017, 06:07:49 pm »

It would resist one spell, mages get three spells. I don't think that design was practical on its own merits. I do rather like the idea of expanding our metal faculties though.

I think that it is wrong to think of hunters as skirmishers, they have almost no range and very little resistance to ranged attack. Skirmishers are typically a ranged unit that can afford to get close to the lines. Hunters ought to be an opportunistic weapon primarily.

The sunk cost fallacy doesn't really apply. Sunk cost primarily applies to random events, where no value is accumulated. In the long run, the sentiment that creates the sunk cost fallacy can preserve resources. The line between the sunk cost fallacy and failing to ever finish anything is extremely thin, vague, and blurred. We have value, there are two good rolls in the hunter proposal, we did not have those rolls previously and there is a decent chance that even on a one our revision would provide a valuable outcome. We have not yet confirmed that a one on a revision means "no change in effectiveness" and even if it does, the odds of that are comfortably low and can be regarded as "outside of what we should be expecting"... The hunter has two design goals: To operate in forests and to move quickly. If we get it working well then we can get something to do to them what they did to us last turn, of attacking reinforcements, which ought to be much more effective given that we have the whole "hive mind" deal and a homogeneous army blob and they are busy trying to herd slaves disparate nationalities. I do not particularly like forest queens, but forest queens is what we got, so having something that can fight well in a forest would be helpful.

 What we need right now is to expand south. We need siege weapons. We can hold the lines easily enough for now but we NEED to expand, and that means siege, because there are forts in our way and on the objectives. We do not have siege, and I do not believe that we can get siege with a revision, and even if we did, there would be precious little opportunity to correct any flaws in it. So second priority is to set ourselves up for forest queens, and we can do that now with hunters, so hunters are a good thing. We aren't just trying to recover our investment, we are trying to make use of the good rolls that we got. We are going to have many many designs that have one bad roll and need to be revised, to cry "sunk cost fallacy" at such things on principal will only result in losing the game. It is far too easy to treat things like codified fallacies as some sort of short-cut to proper arguments. It doesn't work. All arguments require understanding and name-dropping just doesn't provide that. Ergo, anyone who disagrees is Hitler.
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kopout

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #341 on: August 18, 2017, 06:24:23 pm »

It would resist one spell, mages get three spells. I don't think that design was practical on its own merits. I do rather like the idea of expanding our metal faculties though.
   The idea was more that mages can't cast without focus->disrupt their focus -> fewer spells. With the added benefit of scattering slaves/ laying the ground work for future subversive and disruptive tactics. I could be wrong about how casting works but that was my impression.



Hows this for a revision?

Heavy weight hunters:
Although the hunter was conceived as a high mobility attacker it didn't quite work out that way. By giving up on that aspect and replacing its patchwork chitin with a scaled down version of the warrior's armor we can make a somewhat effective charger with a high maximum speed and a significant momentum punch behind it when it connects.
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"Karl Marx: Family jewels"
"Everyone's equally less rich than me!"
Quote from: Lezard
...although I've been having so much fun failing at this I just about forgot what my original aim was.

Strongpoint

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #342 on: August 18, 2017, 06:31:20 pm »

Can't see it working. They are too small for this role. We are talking about big cats here. Also, you are not using one of the achievements of the design > we got a scaled down acid gland with no bugs. I think it is an incredible achievement.


I agree with RAM on everything, designs with an average roll 3 are too good to just abandon. I just don't think that pushing for better speed\maneuverability have any chance to win AND I think that a tail, completely new limb, is too complex for a revision.
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Iituem

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #343 on: August 18, 2017, 07:34:00 pm »

Revision: Acid-Producing Microbes  [Cost: 6]

We haven't got the technical ability to genetically modify our commensal microbes yet, but we don't need to for this.  Part of our commensal flora is one particularly acidic bacterium that just loves to make its surroundings caustic.  Better yet, it does it more cheaply in a metabolic sense than we can.  Both Spitters and Hunters have been adapted to nurture flourishing colonies of these oxygenic (technically the correct word) bacteria.  This has reduced the metabolic costs of these organisms by a significant proportion.

Spitters now cost 10.5 manpower each.  Hunters now cost 1.75 manpower each.


Revision: Biological Springs  [Effectiveness: 2]

We make some progress in adjusting the layering of chitin to flex and store kinetic energy.  Ultimately, the muscle power of our soldiers outshines the benefits, but we do prove the theory.  The effect in the field, however, is marginal.


It is now the Strategy Phase.  You have no dice remaining, but may reassign NE and budget.
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flazeo25

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #344 on: August 18, 2017, 07:49:32 pm »

Budget could possibly be adjusted to 30% Soldiers/2% Hunters/ 63% Workers/ 5% Spitters(NE)?

So likely we reinforce with that many 13 Spitters, 32 Hunters, 140 Soldiers and 1,602 Workers.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 07:56:18 pm by flazeo25 »
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