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Author Topic: Hive Race: The Hive  (Read 40167 times)

Strongpoint

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #315 on: August 18, 2017, 01:03:06 pm »

Quote from: Votes
Revision 1
Spiked Tail-Hunter (0)
Acid Symbionts (5) Strongpoint, Blood_Librarian, flazeo25, Draignean, NUKE9.13, MonkeyMarkMario
Warrior-Hunter coordination (0)

Revision 2
No Second Revision (2) Shadowclaw, NUKE9.13
Spiked Tail-Hunter (0)
Acid Symbionts (0)
Warrior-Hunter coordination (1) strongpoint

Also, even if we do nothing for hunters we should build few% of them just too see their effectiveness or lack of one.
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

flazeo25

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #316 on: August 18, 2017, 01:14:41 pm »

Quote from: Votes
Revision 1
Spiked Tail-Hunter (0)
Acid Symbionts (6) Strongpoint, Blood_Librarian, flazeo25, Draignean, NUKE9.13, MonkeyMarkMario
Warrior-Hunter coordination (0)

Revision 2
No Second Revision (2) Shadowclaw, NUKE9.13
Spiked Tail-Hunter (0)
Acid Symbionts (0)
Warrior-Hunter coordination (2) strongpoint, flazeo25
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #317 on: August 18, 2017, 01:40:19 pm »

Hey, I've just been lurking both threads but... I was reading the report on the third front, and league numbers... Don't quite make sense...

It seems like they lost more slaves than they ever had. Actually, that goes for several units.
It kinda looks like it may be adding skirmish deaths back to the total number of units?
...hey, yeah. Something's gone wrong there. For example, on the third front, they started with 0 slaves, reinforced 1154*, and lost 1592.


*Did they reduce the costs of slaves to <1 manpower?
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10ebbor10

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #318 on: August 18, 2017, 01:46:31 pm »

Hey, I've just been lurking both threads but... I was reading the report on the third front, and league numbers... Don't quite make sense...

It seems like they lost more slaves than they ever had. Actually, that goes for several units.
It kinda looks like it may be adding skirmish deaths back to the total number of units?
...hey, yeah. Something's gone wrong there. For example, on the third front, they started with 0 slaves, reinforced 1154*, and lost 1592.


*Did they reduce the costs of slaves to <1 manpower?

That wouldn't work as the numbers of slaves are noted.
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RAM

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #319 on: August 18, 2017, 03:23:11 pm »

I think that hunters are valuable. They just need to get more manoeuvrability. Not that I kind of hate how they are going for mammalian design, so my biases would tell me to burn them in fire, but I want to recover from what went wrong and their other rolls were grand, it would be great to get those rolls working for us.

Mostly, though, people are saying that hunters are worthless. We saw just now that the enemy are ambushing our forces when they are separated. The hunters can use their speed to rescue some of our ambushed forces and go on raids of their own. And, of course, they were designed for forest operations, where massed groups were difficult, if we can get them enough manoeuvrability to operate in forests at speed then they will show their value.

We did, really, need siege weapons, that was a massive need and we ignored it, but it is pretty much too late now so we should try to recover what we can. Hunters are not suited to standing on the battle lines, but they don't have to do that to be useful.
Quote from: Votes
Revision 1
Spiked Tail-Hunter (0)
Acid Symbionts (6) Strongpoint, Blood_Librarian, flazeo25, Draignean, NUKE9.13, MonkeyMarkMario
Warrior-Hunter coordination (0)

Revision 2
No Second Revision (2) Shadowclaw, NUKE9.13
Spiked Tail-Hunter (1) RAM
Acid Symbionts (0)
Warrior-Hunter coordination (2) strongpoint, flazeo25
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Strongpoint

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #320 on: August 18, 2017, 03:26:13 pm »

I like the tail but I am worried that completely new gene is just too much for a revision.
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Iituem

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #321 on: August 18, 2017, 03:43:24 pm »

Hey, I've just been lurking both threads but... I was reading the report on the third front, and league numbers... Don't quite make sense...

It seems like they lost more slaves than they ever had. Actually, that goes for several units.
It kinda looks like it may be adding skirmish deaths back to the total number of units?

Oh my.  I should check the code on that.
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wolfchild

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #322 on: August 18, 2017, 03:53:11 pm »

To be fair, I only voted for hunters cause it was more likely to succeed that bloodworms, and those were gonna be an abject failure. But i unfortunately do not have an opinion about the rest right now
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Iituem

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #323 on: August 18, 2017, 04:15:46 pm »

Hey, I've just been lurking both threads but... I was reading the report on the third front, and league numbers... Don't quite make sense...

It seems like they lost more slaves than they ever had. Actually, that goes for several units.
It kinda looks like it may be adding skirmish deaths back to the total number of units?

Oh my.  I should check the code on that.

Aha.  I didn't cap the number of possible kills, so it was killing units that didn't exist.  I've fixed that now, so it should be more representative in future.
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Shadowclaw777

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #324 on: August 18, 2017, 04:17:36 pm »

Having the ability for two designs to compensate for our missing links is better than over prioritizing in areas were already focused at, the Hunters can't serve as cavalry their just skirmishers. I'm pretty sure a 50% cheaper Worker drone that has better melee capabilities, and also provides 33% percent of its melee to skirmishing. I do think that sunk investment fallacy is what is resulting in us trying to create the hunter drone at least somewhat effective, but it would be just a waste of dice that another design would help fixate the problem. The hunter was only voted because it didn't allow an impossible feasible design to happen. Our current problem is from sieging and mages, with also lack of military diversity. We lack cavalry, artillery, traps, and naval efforts. All which a improving a skirmisher won't provide. 2 designs to counteract these problems is the best plan, we need to fixate thing we don't have, not minimize things were already good at

I'm okay with Acid Symbionts, but coordination isn't going to be effective. Warrior-Hunter coordination will result in a ill-proven ideal just so we can something good for our hunters. But as I repeat, the workers are pretty much superior to hunters, also they both provide melee and skirmishing capability while the hunters are really poor at combat and skirmishing abilities are just somewhat better than the workers, and they cost twice as much. Designs are what is needed, revisions won't help future problems were going to deal with only designs, designs are superior to revisions because they expand knowledge and provide more assets compared to revisions. The best path is to get a high efficacy design and than revise it to be better, not revise a poor efficacy design
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10ebbor10

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #325 on: August 18, 2017, 04:30:00 pm »

Yeah, I disagree with Warrior-Hunter Coordination.

The Hunter is specifically said to be bad in melee, which is the only place where you'll ever find a warrior. The Warrior, meanwhile, is doing perfectly fine and needs no aid to survive.
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Strongpoint

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #326 on: August 18, 2017, 04:33:56 pm »

Quote
I do think that sunk investment fallacy is what is resulting in us trying to create the hunter drone at least somewhat effective
We don't even really know how effective\ineffective hunter is. Description is not enough to be sure. After all its average roll is 3. And this is... average. Not spending few% of budged to at least test them may be throwing something useful.

Quote
The best path is to get a high efficacy design and than revise it to be better, not revise a poor efficacy design
Here you are trying to say that lets say 5 effectiveness, 4 cost, 1 bugs would be better and easier to revise. I don't think that it is true

Quote
designs are superior to revisions
I disagree. Three revisions are not worse than one design. They give no less knowledge.Roll spent now is better then roll spent later because roll spent later gives nothing for the current turn

Quote
The Hunter is specifically said to be bad in melee, which is the only place where you'll ever find a warrior. The Warrior, meanwhile, is doing perfectly fine and needs no aid to survive.
The beauty of combined arms is that sum can be more than parts. Hunters are bad in melee because they are easy to damage. Doesn't matter if they hide under the soldier
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Draignean

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #327 on: August 18, 2017, 04:36:34 pm »

Alright, putting in a late entry for stage 2 revisions.

Biological Springs
A slight change in the layering of chitin allows it to flex and store kinetic energy. Initially, this is incorporated into the forelimbs of warriors, allowing them to 'cock' their limbs back and release to make brutal smashing blows. While the time required means this ability is best reserved for harder targets, it's capable of sending human sized targets flying.
Quote from: Votes
Revision 1
Spiked Tail-Hunter (0)
Acid Symbionts (6) Strongpoint, Blood_Librarian, flazeo25, Draignean, NUKE9.13, MonkeyMarkMario
Warrior-Hunter coordination (0)

Revision 2
No Second Revision (2) Shadowclaw, NUKE9.13
Spiked Tail-Hunter (1) RAM
Acid Symbionts (0)
Warrior-Hunter coordination (2) strongpoint, flazeo25
Biological Springs (1): Draignean

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10ebbor10

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #328 on: August 18, 2017, 04:37:51 pm »

Quote
Revision 1
Spiked Tail-Hunter (0)
Acid Symbionts (6) Strongpoint, Blood_Librarian, flazeo25, Draignean, NUKE9.13, MonkeyMarkMario
Warrior-Hunter coordination (0)

Revision 2
No Second Revision (2) Shadowclaw, NUKE9.13
Spiked Tail-Hunter (1) RAM
Acid Symbionts (0)
Warrior-Hunter coordination (2) strongpoint, flazeo25
Biological Springs (2): Draignean, 10ebbor10
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wolfchild

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #329 on: August 18, 2017, 04:38:43 pm »

Yeah, I'm going no second revision

Quote from: Votes
Revision 1
Spiked Tail-Hunter (0)
Acid Symbionts (6) Strongpoint, Blood_Librarian, flazeo25, Draignean, NUKE9.13, MonkeyMarkMario
Warrior-Hunter coordination (0)

Revision 2
No Second Revision (3) Shadowclaw, NUKE9.13, Wolfchild
Spiked Tail-Hunter (1) RAM
Acid Symbionts (0)
Warrior-Hunter coordination (2) strongpoint, flazeo25
Biological Springs (1): Draignean
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You really can both sig it.
But... That would break the laws of sigging! We can't have everyone running around with the same quotes. IT MAKES THEM UNFUNNY FASTER!
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