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Author Topic: Hive Race: The Hive  (Read 40152 times)

Strongpoint

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #285 on: August 17, 2017, 05:50:21 pm »

...
Fine. Let's do both. Beasts below.

I mean, it was only a suggestion. You'll note that I used the old votebox at the top of my post. If people don't want to use the new one, then don't.
I realise now that trying to fight the Bloodworms is futile. I can only pray that I am being overly pessimistic about its chance of success.
Losing is fun(c).

I am fine with interpreting the voting box like people want to spend both actions on bloodworm thing even if I think that it is quote illogical interpretation. I am curious to see what will happen. I am like 99% sure that spending two designs on bloodworms is a way to stall our progress and make the game way harder to win but it will be entertaining.
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

RAM

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #286 on: August 17, 2017, 05:56:50 pm »

Requesting 24 hours between the last rearrangement of the votebox and the action. On account of people not wanting their vote to be arbitrarily moved and 24 hours is a full day-cycle, which would generally include at least one review of the thread by all people who have a reasonable chance of seeing it in a reasonable timeframe.
Quote
Design One:
Boiler Adapation: (1) , Shadowclaw
Hunter Caste: (0)
Bombardier: (2) Shadowclaw, RAM
Field Fortifications: (1) kopout
Symbiotic Organisms: (7) MonkeyMarkMario, FallacyofUrist, kopout, Blood Librarian, NUKE9.13, strongpoint, flazeo25
Terravore Beetles

Design Two:
Boiler Adapation: (1) Shadowclaw
Hunter Caste: (3) NUKE9.13, strongpoint, RAM
Symbiotic Bloodworms: (4) 10ebbor10, Draignean, Puppyguard, Crazyabe
Bombardier: (1) Shadowclaw
Field Fortifications: (0)
Jammer: (1) kopout
Dweller: (1) flazeo25
Terrakin Beetles:
No Second Design: (0)

1 End Phase: RAM
1 twenty-four hour reprieve after following quote: RAM

[/quote]
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

Shadowclaw777

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #287 on: August 17, 2017, 07:42:09 pm »

Quote
Design One:
Boiler Adapation: (0)
Hunter Caste: (0)
Bombardier: (2) Shadowclaw, RAM
Field Fortifications: (1) kopout
Symbiotic Organisms: (7) MonkeyMarkMario, FallacyofUrist, kopout, Blood Librarian, NUKE9.13, strongpoint, flazeo25
Terravore Beetles

Design Two:
Boiler Adapation: (0) Shadowclaw
Hunter Caste: (4) NUKE9.13, strongpoint, RAM, Shadowclaw
Symbiotic Bloodworms: (4) 10ebbor10, Draignean, Puppyguard, Crazyabe
Bombardier: (1) Shadowclaw
Field Fortifications: (0)
Jammer: (1) kopout
Dweller: (1) flazeo25
Terrakin Beetles:
No Second Design: (0)

1 End Phase: RAM
1 twenty-four hour reprieve after following quote: RAM

@NUKE9.9.13 I'm also prioritizing all my effort so that this Bloodworms idea doesn't get done. I mean from my logic it first requires massive miniaturization of our current worker drone which take a design all by itself it to just make a swarm unit. Than it needs a friendly-to-foe flesh recognition switch for it's niche effective flesh dissolver, which is quite useless for further designs and only needed for this design. This design only closes off other doors significantly, their too much investment for such little gain, it barely solves any of our current problems it just might mitigate future ones. Essentially too much complexity and limiting design space, and not having much use through future designs makes it really bad. It only follows the Rule of Cool, not the Rule of Pragmatism
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 07:52:53 pm by Shadowclaw777 »
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Iituem

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #288 on: August 17, 2017, 08:12:50 pm »

I could give it 8 hours at least (i.e. time for me to sleep), see if any definite decisions have been reached.  This one's pretty contested.
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Let's Play Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magic Obscura! - The adventures of Jack Hunt, gentleman rogue.

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wolfchild

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #289 on: August 17, 2017, 08:28:45 pm »

Well now seems like a good time to finaly say that YES i am going to join the hive, and I agree that the bloodworms seems like a bad idea (TM)

Quote
Design One:
Boiler Adapation: (0)
Hunter Caste: (0)
Bombardier: (2) Shadowclaw, RAM
Field Fortifications: (2) kopout, wolfchild
Symbiotic Organisms: (7) MonkeyMarkMario, FallacyofUrist, kopout, Blood Librarian, NUKE9.13, strongpoint, flazeo25
Terravore Beetles

Design Two:
Boiler Adapation: (0) Shadowclaw
Hunter Caste: (5) NUKE9.13, strongpoint, RAM, Shadowclaw, Wolfchild
Symbiotic Bloodworms: (4) 10ebbor10, Draignean, Puppyguard, Crazyabe
Bombardier: (1) Shadowclaw
Field Fortifications: (0)
Jammer: (1) kopout
Dweller: (1) flazeo25
Terrakin Beetles:
No Second Design: (0)

1 End Phase: RAM
1 twenty-four hour reprieve after following quote: RAM
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You really can both sig it.
But... That would break the laws of sigging! We can't have everyone running around with the same quotes. IT MAKES THEM UNFUNNY FASTER!

Blood_Librarian

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #290 on: August 17, 2017, 08:50:04 pm »

Quote from:  Qu QU Quel Quote
Design One:
Boiler Adapation: (0)
Hunter Caste: (0)
Bombardier: (2) Shadowclaw, RAM
Field Fortifications: (2) kopout, wolfchild
Symbiotic Organisms: (7) MonkeyMarkMario, FallacyofUrist, kopout, Blood Librarian, NUKE9.13, strongpoint, flazeo25
Terravore Beetles

Design Two:
Boiler Adapation: (0) Shadowclaw
Hunter Caste: (6) NUKE9.13, strongpoint, RAM, Shadowclaw, Wolfchild, Blood Librarian
Symbiotic Bloodworms: (4) 10ebbor10, Draignean, Puppyguard, Crazyabe
Bombardier: (1) Shadowclaw
Field Fortifications: (0)
Jammer: (1) kopout
Dweller: (1) flazeo25
Terrakin Beetles:
No Second Design: (0)

1 End Phase: RAM
1 twenty-four hour reprieve after following quote: RAM
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if you want something wacky
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crazyabe

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #291 on: August 17, 2017, 09:01:47 pm »

Quote from:  Qu QU Quel Quote
Design One:
Boiler Adapation: (0)
Hunter Caste: (0)
Bombardier: (2) Shadowclaw, RAM
Field Fortifications: (2) kopout, wolfchild
Symbiotic Organisms: (8) MonkeyMarkMario, FallacyofUrist, kopout, Blood Librarian, NUKE9.13, strongpoint, flazeo25, Crazyabe
Terravore Beetles

Design Two:
Boiler Adapation: (0) Shadowclaw
Hunter Caste: (6) NUKE9.13, strongpoint, RAM, Shadowclaw, Wolfchild, Blood Librarian
Symbiotic Bloodworms: (4) 10ebbor10, Draignean, Puppyguard, Crazyabe
Bombardier: (1) Shadowclaw
Field Fortifications: (0)
Jammer: (1) kopout
Dweller: (1) flazeo25
Terrakin Beetles:
No Second Design: (0)

1 End Phase: RAM
1 twenty-four hour reprieve after following quote: RAM
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“Don’t quote me.”
nothing here.

MonkeyMarkMario

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #292 on: August 17, 2017, 09:05:45 pm »

Quote from:  vote
Design One:
Boiler Adapation: (0)
Hunter Caste: (0)
Bombardier: (2) Shadowclaw, RAM
Field Fortifications: (2) kopout, wolfchild
Symbiotic Organisms: (7) MonkeyMarkMario, FallacyofUrist, kopout, Blood Librarian, NUKE9.13, strongpoint, flazeo25
Terravore Beetles

Design Two:
Boiler Adapation: (0) Shadowclaw
Hunter Caste: (7) NUKE9.13, strongpoint, RAM, Shadowclaw, Wolfchild, Blood Librarian, MonkeyMarkMario
Symbiotic Bloodworms: (4) 10ebbor10, Draignean, Puppyguard, Crazyabe
Bombardier: (1) Shadowclaw
Field Fortifications: (0)
Jammer: (1) kopout
Dweller: (1) flazeo25
Terrakin Beetles:
No Second Design: (0)

1 End Phase: RAM
1 twenty-four hour reprieve after following quote: RAM

Symbiotic Organisms are a good idea allows better wood ingestion latter as well as other things, Bloodworms can come latter if necessary thou at this point kinda pointless. I agree that we need cav.
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I have Discord for my games now(not necessary to play, tho might be easier to contact me): https://discord.gg/DuaARAZ

Strongpoint

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #293 on: August 18, 2017, 05:02:18 am »

The more I think about NUKE9.13's version of symbionts the more I like them. It is a very safe approach focusing on minimizing possible bugs and even if we get zero effectiveness, this can be changed with the following revision by adding some minor functionality. 
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

RAM

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #294 on: August 18, 2017, 05:27:08 am »

By the way, how do we feel about those reinforcements?
I figure that killing them all will ruin any chance of diplomacy in the near future. It is pretty difficult to convince people to become your slaves when everyone knows that you eat everyone who talks to you(we also know now that communication is definitely possible). It would also cost us a die, effectively nullifying our reward from last turn, and there is no guarantee that the hunams will be going along with whatever they need to do to get these reinforcements, so it could just be a bluff to take away our credit...

That said, hundreds of spearmen is not something that I want to face in a fair fight...
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

NUKE9.13

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #295 on: August 18, 2017, 06:00:50 am »

The spearmen we can deal with, its the hoplites that worry me.

...it's a shame the Queen is so quick to dismiss the possibility of working together with the Thanetonians. I mean, if those 100 hoplites were on our side, even for just a single turn, we would easily win on whatever front they joined. Plus, the morale penalty the humans would suffer from seeing their 'allies' betray them in favour of inhuman monsters would be significant.

Hey, if we spend the die on setting up the ambush, but the League decides not to accept the reinforcements, do we get the die back?
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Strongpoint

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #296 on: August 18, 2017, 06:19:17 am »

If it wasn't random, I'd consider spending a die for this... But as it is random I think the opportunity cost is too high. I am sure that low roll revision is better than destroying a chunk of this force. High roll revision can have great effect, too.

In any case we should evaluate our need for revisions when revision phase will arrive.
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Iituem

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #297 on: August 18, 2017, 09:47:05 am »

Design: Symbiotic Organisms  [Effectiveness: 2+1 (Theoretical)] [Expense: 5+1] [Bugs: 4+1]

Up until now, Hive genetic modification has been limited to the stock of our drones.  The Queen, after all, has a natural ability to modify the genes of her own progeny.  But all drones naturally contain some microbes; bacteria, yeasts and other commensal organisms that sometimes harm, rarely help, mostly don't make a significant difference to things one way or another.  We have already had some success incorporating commensal bacteria into the ruminant digestive system; the Queen finds that she can manipulate the conditions of foetal or nascent drones to change the proportions of commensal flora that take root in their bodies, eradicating some strains, incorporating others.  At the very least, we can now pick and choose which types of flora exist in our drones.  We cannot yet tweak the properties of commensal flora with the same ease and expertise that we modify drones, but this is a significant step forward.

A marginal side effect of this is that we have adjusted the default colonies of microbes in all of our drones to favour harmless or marginally helpful microbes, helping slightly reduce the risk of infections resulting from wounds on the battlefield.  It is only a very slight edge, but it costs us nothing, except perhaps a marginally higher metabolic load to support the extra flora.


Design: Hunter Caste  [Effectiveness: 1] [Expense: 4] [Bugs: 5]

The Hunter is not our best work.  We regressed the mandibles and reverted the front limbs into legs rather than graspers, and moved the compound eyes and IR eyespots forward for better depth perception.  We even miniaturised the Spitter stomach into a form that could be supported by a less-than worker-sized drone and incorporated the vomiting reflex.  We attempted to try and improve mobility by creating a new type of chitin carapace, stronger than the standard worker carapace but keeping much of the lightness.

A few things went wrong.  We couldn't manage to stabilise a new light-weight high-strength form of chitin that didn't result in weird curls happening everywhere and making it utterly useless, so we had to try using thin plates of Soldier Chitin, which then resulted in weight and mobility issues, so we had to set the plates far apart and shrink them.  We ended up with essentially articulating sections of Worker Chitin and then occasional plates of Soldier Chitin on the less flexible parts.

As expected, getting running and jumping limbs down isn't as simple as making all six limbs into legs.  The main issue is trying to develop high-powered explosive muscles, whereas for the most part drones use low-power, high-endurance muscle forms, which is one of the reasons drones tire rarely and can maintain long hours of work.  Not to mention the difficulty of getting the articulation right on the limbs, where worker limbs are built for balance and stability and not the right sort of movement.

Still, we have something.  The finished Hunter is half the size of a Worker, but consumes twice as much food due to its obligate carnivorous digestive system (which it desperately needs to deliver the power it requires).  The format of the six forward-facing limbs has been finalised to our satisfaction, but the explosive muscles just aren't as good as those found in mammals.  The Hunter can't jump well and struggles with inclines and uneven terrain.  It can build up faster speed than workers, certainly, and can even manage to outpace sprinting humans, but it lacks manoeuvreability.  The compromise armour system leaves it extremely vulnerable to targeted attacks; it cannot hope to hold up well in melee.  In fact, given its size, weight and maximum speed, if we used it like humans use horses for a charge it would barely deliver the same impact as a worker thrusting with their saw-toothed middle limbs.

Fortunately, that is not their method of attack.  Instead, Hunters strafe the enemy, running close to them and then turning their heads to vomit up a short-range blast of sprayed acid.  The acid spray only has an effective range of a metre before it thins out too much to be effective, but within range it is the equivalent of an acidic shotgun blast.  Hunters then run past the enemy, either retreating or trying to escape.  Ultimately, the Hunter works, but it doesn't work well.

Hunters      Cost: 2 Manpower.  Cat-sized drones with six forward-facing limbs designed for running and jumping (although not necessarily that effective at either).  Patchwork chitin gives them some mobility and some protection, while aiming to keep them lightweight, giving them enough speed to run up to targets, strafe them, and deploy their weaponised acid-glands in a short-range blast.


It is now the Revision Phase.  You have 2 dice remaining.



You will need to adjust Budget in the Strategy phase to give the Hunters any production.

If you set up the ambush and the League doesn't accept the reinforcements, you lose the die.  It's a gamble.
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Let's Play Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magic Obscura! - The adventures of Jack Hunt, gentleman rogue.

No slaughtering every man, woman and child we see just to teleport to the moon.

10ebbor10

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #298 on: August 18, 2017, 09:59:15 am »

Well, that could have gone better.

I propose we do not deploy the Hunter at all. It's armor is worse than a Worker, and those already suffer from atrocious attrition rates.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 10:03:14 am by 10ebbor10 »
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Strongpoint

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Re: Hive Race: The Hive
« Reply #299 on: August 18, 2017, 10:02:19 am »

Well symbiont work as intended = long term investment with no real bugs.

Hunters got rekt by 1 effectiveness. I think with their decent cost roll and good bugs roll it is worth a revision to buff their effectiveness. 
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!
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