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[Madman198237]

Simply building more camps won't be as effective as reducing costs of units.

[NAV]

Screening Camps:  0
Slave Screening:  2 (Madman, NAV)
Phalynx Training Grounds: 0

No Revision:  3  (Tack, Jilladilla, Nirur)
One Revision: 1 (Madman)

[Terenos]

Personally, I agree. No revisions necessary. For now. A training camp is a flat increase to training, which gets us more troops. Reducing the cost of troops is something that is going to require a professional army. We're ..war hobbyists.

Maybe in the next 3 turns we should make a shift to professional army.

Screening Camps:  0
Slave Screening:  2 (Madman, NAV)
Phalynx Training Grounds: 0

No Revision:  4  (Tack, Jilladilla, Nirur, Terenos)
One Revision: 1 (Madman)

[Jilladilla]

Simply building more camps won't be as effective as reducing costs of units.

It'd still provide a relatively massive increase to the training output of any of our cities that aren't the really big ones (and even then it would be a significant boost), and now that we've mostly rooted out the corruption, we can safely spam them.

And material costs, especially ore costs, just aren't that important right now... And I don't see a way for slaves to contribute to lessening the training our troops need... Well, other than as targets in 'live combat training' I'd guess, but that's a path I don't think we should go down?

[Madman198237]

I was thinking more "Used to expand the camps and improve the quality and number of buildings on-site, so as to make training easier and more efficient" and I can rewrite the revision more if necessary. It was and is a sort of rough-draft of the basic ideas.

[Jilladilla]

I was thinking more "Used to expand the camps and improve the quality and number of buildings on-site, so as to make training easier and more efficient" and I can rewrite the revision more if necessary. It was and is a sort of rough-draft of the basic ideas.

That could work. I'm still pushing for the Training Camp+Possible ship reallocation(Or even a second Camp, or maybe claim a bit more timber to prevent the -1200 timber capacity losing Nippan Woods would cause us from halting boat/bowmen/ballista production?) this turn though.

[Madman198237]

Once again: We will likely hit a ceiling of "Just build more camps" as far as training goes. Heck, we might be fully capable of shooting ourselves in the metaphorical feet by trying this and rolling more ones (Giving rise to yet more corruption, of course)

[Iituem]

It seems there is a consensus not to revise this turn.

It is the Strategy Phase.  You have 2 dice.  You must also vote on whether to accept the Thanetonian offer.

[Nirur Torir]

I'm in favor of +2 training camps. It doesn't seem to matter where they are for where trained troops end up, so I'm in favor of Chersera (Unimportant island, less likely to be attacked) and Borolis (Lots of cities on the island).

Any opinions on what I should optimize my budget proposal for? Troop-wise and safety-margin wise.

[Madman198237]

I'd say +1 training camp, and save a die.

Might as well have a two-design option if necessary.

[Jilladilla]

I'm in favor of +2 training camps. It doesn't seem to matter where they are for where trained troops end up

They would have to ship those troops in though, while this isn't anywhere near as much an issue as it was, Fleet 2 and 3 are still nowhere near being able to deploy our full capacity...
I mean, look at Fleet 1, they only have to ship in troops from one city, and they aren't quite getting all of them quite yet (But considering it would just be some slaves I'd be fine with not bringing those and redistributing the boats to ensure that more troops reinforce the more battered fronts...)

I'd consider deploying a camp at Kroton, even if we utterly fail at even slowing their advance it would still take 10 turns for the Hive to overrun the city, and the surge of non-slave troops should definitely stall them on our first front. Our second die should either be a reallocation of our fleet, or claiming some more timber so our reinforcement rates don't falter in their growth. (As we're almost certainly going to lose the timber, we're at 1931/3000 timber right now, and losing that timber would lower our capacity down to 1800, and units have upkeep... Even one of the 2 timber sources would let us maintain a 2400 timber capacity)

[Nirur Torir]

As we are now, 1.6% budget gets us 1 apprentice, or 3 for 4.93. Ballistas  Fairly safe, unless pop.growth suddenly drops by 18%, instead of its fairly steady rate. A single training camp won't really affect this. Ballistas as 1.82 or 5.46 for 3. Our wood and ore are fine for ballista.

I am deeply unhappy with the kills from bowmen(5%) and skirmishers(10%). Skirmishers are about half as effective, but might actually do something. Neither has a better apparent survival rate than normal troops. I propose removing all bowmen and half of our skirmishers. They're expensive at 2 training points each anyway.

Current apprentice:ballista budget is 11%:6%. I'd like +4% apprentices for another group. +4% goes back into spearmen, +2% to hoplites, who I think are our main soldier-killers. With shields and magic weapons, they might actually stem the ever-growing tide this turn.

Budget Proposal: More Apprentices:
-5% bowmen
-5% skirmishers
+4% apprentices
+4% spearmen
+2% hoplites

Build a Major Camp at: (1) Nirur
   Chersera: 1 (Nirur)
   Kroton: 0

Build a lumber camp near Paphessos in the north: (1) Nirur

Budget: More Apprentices: (1) Nirur

Deploy National Units at Front 3: (1) Nirur

[Terenos]

Well, first things first, I am voting no on the Thanetonian Proposal. I concur that they are assholes. I concur that they are taking advantage of us in a time of need. We need their troops, but I doubt it would be sufficient to hold the Nippan woods either way.
Maybe if they could see the threat we're fighting, they'd change their minds. Regardless, if they don't want to be involved, I wish them a great deal of luck when the bugs come for them.

Or we do.
---
Next up, I do believe we need an additional timber source, just so we can keep building ships, archers, and ballistae. So my vote is for at least 1 die to go to colonization efforts.

In the future, given our reliance on timber we may want to investigate ways to improve our gathering of it.

Thanetonian Proposal:
Nay: (1) Terenos.
-
Build a Major Camp at: (1) Nirur
   Chersera: 1 (Nirur)
   Kroton: 0
-
Build a lumber camp near Paphessos in the north: (1) Nirur
-
Budget: More Apprentices: (2) Nirur, Terenos

Deploy National Units at Front 3: (2) Nirur,Terenos

I cannot however say we should build another major training camp, when we could potentially use that die next turn to start developing more tech to shore up some weaknesses.

[Nirur Torir]

I forgot about the terrible people.

Thanetonian Proposal:
Nay: (2) Terenos, Nirur.
-
Build a Major Camp at: (1) Nirur
   Chersera: 1 (Nirur)
   Kroton: 0
-
Build a lumber camp near Paphessos in the north: (1) Nirur
-
Budget: More Apprentices: (2) Nirur, Terenos

Deploy National Units at Front 3: (2) Nirur,Terenos

[Jilladilla]

Being a little contrary on the location of the new lumber camp, due somewhat because of trying to avoid a 'all eggs in one basket' scenario. And the wood down south has a lot of forts between it and the bugs if worst comes to worst.
And as for the Thanetonians? If they want to help, we'll give them standard League membership benefits, and not one coin more. Otherwise stay out of this, and pray we can handle it, for the bugs won't have mercy on you for your inaction.

Thanetonian Proposal:
Nay: (3) Terenos, Nirur, Jilladilla
-
Build a Major Training Camp at:
   Chersera: (1) Nirur
   Kroton: (1) Jilladilla
-
Build a lumber camp near Paphessos in the north: (1) Nirur
Build a lumber camp near Borolis in the south: (1) Jilladilla
-
Budget: More Apprentices: (2) Nirur, Terenos -Free Action

Deploy National Units at Front 3: (2) Nirur,Terenos -Free Action

Save a die: (1) Terenos
Save both dice:

Remember that we'll have to reallocate Fleet 1's reinforcements very soon, otherwise we'll have empty transports just sitting in Epidaea's ports, sad because we ran out of troops to load into them, while they would still be much needed elsewhere. (We'll overflow on necessary transports this turn from the looks of it, but those will be our future proofing. Next turn's extra boats would be completely unnecessary for reinforcing Fleet 1, however...)