Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Tack]

Then that would require building more training fields. Lots more, if each is 100 and we have about 3000 slaves hitting the front every turn.

Our options are either equip our slaves better or implement some SERIOUS changes to our military structure.

Also @Madman, that's a seriously optimistic estimate.
Best case, they won't lose any casualties in the charge phase, and then get mostly steamrolled in the melee phase. Still gives us some extra damage for free.

Realistic scenario? Those warriors are going to blow through our pike lines like toothpicks and as soon as formation is lost they'll be fleeing.

[Nirur Torir]

I'm making a spreadsheet so I can figure out how much budget to shift if we want mages or apprentices.

Interestingly, our basic training point rate is ~2.5% per population. Minor camps increased this to ~2.75%, a 10% increase. Corruption has no apparent impact on this.

[Tack]

Oh man, we need to figure out a way to bump that up.
Either that or the Hive is expected to cut our numbers down.

[Nirur Torir]

A mage college gets us both one step closer to state education and agriculture magic, but we have so much else to spend single dice on. I think front 1 can still use more transports, so we don't need to reshuffle that yet, unless we want to bulk up our other fronts and hope the hive focuses more on front 1.

[Madman198237]

Tack, I'm not being optimistic.

The Macedonians steamrolled the Greek city-states. They flattened one of the most hideously effective military machines the world had ever seen.

There is no "melee phase" when using a phalanx. Your enemy is kept at LEAST 12 feet from you at all times. You don't just "get past" a wall of spears like that. The first four ranks of pikemen have all levelled pikes in your face, and you've got to dodge the first one, not get impaled by the second one, make it past 3 while 4 is still ready to get you, and THEN you gotta make sure you don't get killed by a guy from the next line over.

Oh, and if you get the first guy, there's a guy back in the fifth row who's now get a clear shot at you. There's a REASON that Alexander the Great conquered his way to India, and it's because his fighting force was almost unmatched.

The alternative is developing the Mongol system of mounted archers, and including a siege group because cavalry can't charge walls. I would prefer the phalanx method, because it's generally superior.

Heck, we could even go with a mixed phalanx system, where the first guy is a hoplite and the three guys behind him just use pikes. That way, if you DO get to sword range there's a flipping Spartan with an 8-foot spear and a lot of ways to kill you.

[Nirur Torir]

Heck, we could even go with a mixed phalanx system, where the first guy is a hoplite and the three guys behind him just use pikes. That way, if you DO get to sword range there's a flipping Spartan with an 8-foot spear and a lot of ways to kill you.

I like that idea, and it should help even if the armed slaves end up costing resources and we can only field a few.

It looks to me like we'll be able to get an apprentice or ballista per front per 6% budget (or ~5.88%), but it's close and I have limited data for growth prediction. I expect about +127 training, but if we're short 22 from that then we only get 2 apprentices. ~4.89% gets us 1 mage.
On our strategy phase, I propose 2% mages and 7% spearmen > apprentices (12%), and 1% spearmen to ballista (6%). 2 apprentices and 1 ballista per front.

[Madman198237]

Here's the issue---we need to be fielding ARMIES of three hundred men or more at a time, to ensure they can fight in a cohesive unit. Archer support will be ideal. I'd propose this for a plan, given no earth-shattering developments:

Design NOW: Phalangites
Revision(s): Slaves to Phalangites camp; Killing Corruption
Design Next Turn: King's Companions equivalent (Heavy cavalry)
Revision(s): Longbow, better training methods (Faster training of phalangites, archers, or cavalry)

This gives us a full Macedonian-style army in two turns, with some improvements to our training structure. The tactics are also a necessity, which could take the place of the longbow and training revisions of turn 2. The tactics are to pin down the enemy with the phalanx and then hit him where he's weak with the cavalry, described by General Douglas E. MacArthur as follows: "Hold him by the nose and kick him in the ass." In our case, we probably want to hold the workers and soldiers back with the phalanx, and send elite squads of Companions after the soldier drones.

[Jilladilla]

Just remember, if the idea is to outfit the bulk of our slave force, you'll either need to keep any required training to be absolutely minimal to keep that particular cost at 0 (as that is the current bottleneck to actual troops), or we'll need to greatly increase the amount of training we have access to... And it looks like each major training camp we go for has its own roll, so it likely won't be as effective as the one in Dorytos...

(If we add another training camp, I propose Kroton being our next choice. It has a very decently sized population, and while it is on the same island as the bug menace, it does have a fair bit of distance from it, and it has several lines of forts protecting it. Kydessos is of course another possibility, if one that may not last as long as Kroton.)

[Madman198237]

No, in fact, the idea is that we'll lose a LOT of raw manpower slaves-wise. Most will likely not volunteer, at least not if we get a mediocre roll. However, those that do not volunteer will end up producing the equipment for our soldiers, and help around their designated training camps, relieving material issues and possibly even reducing the training cost.

However, in exchange we'd gain a nigh-unbeatable force that will be able to withstand some of their acid effects. However, we first ought to revise a tactic aimed at having the artillery shoot down the blasted mobile turret things, as well as the other acid-spitters (Are there any?)

[Jilladilla]

Well, at this point it is obvious you and I are trying for two separate things... (I'm trying to get the thousands of slaves we're fielding to not suck so much, your Phalangites are an entirely new unit that wouldn't do a thing to better spend all the excess manpower we're dumping into slaves due to running out of training... (Unless they end up using more than one manpower per unit, but our cavalry is the only unit that does that which doesn't need multiple men to operate) It's still a very good idea, though. Also my Levy suggestion might just be better served as a revision, due to no new tech or extensive changes to the base unit... So consider me leaning tentatively towards Phalangites for our design this turn.)

Either way, on to my suggestion for Take Three at rooting out corruption in the camps: (Not a design, for the Revision Phase.)

Personal Visits
Our commanders, or a delegate personally appointed by them, goes out and visits the camps where their future troops would come from at unscheduled intervals. As even the most cowardly, corrupt, or glory seeking commanders would want a well trained force (as such a force would increase their chances of not dying on the field of battle, or of claiming a glorious victory for the latter category), it is anticipated that they wouldn't be content with mere bribes to 'look the other way' when it comes to neglected soldiers.

When the time comes for soldiers to be sent to war, they will be put through a 'final exam', personally overseen by their future commander, to ensure that our trainers actually did their jobs in getting every soldier under their care up to par.

So, what do you all think? Inspiration struck and I had to get it down, which is why I didn't wait for the revision phase to post that bit.

[Nirur Torir]

Magic School: Our magical knowledge is embryonic, as are our personnel able to teach magic are limited. By centralizing our magical recruit training, we can concentrate our best teachers and much more easily determine which training methods work, as well as have bigger class sizes, getting us better mages with less effort. Once training is complete, they will be dispersed to the appropriate fronts.

Magic School: 1 (Nirur)

Magic and schooling!

[Jilladilla]

Magic and schooling!

Next turn, for sure. This turn however, let's try to get as much immediate effect as we can while still progressing towards our ideal army to win that bonus die! Yes, it's only effectively 20% of an extra turn. But we can't just surrender it to the Hive! At least make them work for it!

Magic School: 1 (Nirur)
Phalangites: 2 (Madman, Jilladilla)

(Note: Added Madman's vote due to rules stating to assume proposers vote for their own thing unless they say otherwise)

[stabbymcstabstab]

Magic School: 2 (Nirur, Stabby)
Phalangites: 2 (Madman, Jilladilla)

Quick question that somebody might have already answered, but don't we already have hoplites? Form all my knowledge your just suggesting build a third hoplite unit.

[Madman198237]

You were right, Jilla. It's fine.

Guys, right now we're literally sacrificing men to Armok. We're throwing slaves into battle. The Phalangites is a way to take advantage of that. It turns the bulk of our fighting force into a more powerful unit, using the manpower already spent to ease production of the units themselves. Basically, the goal is to stop throwing away lives, and instead leave the enemy spiked, five deep, on the pikes of our Phalangites.

I'm so tired that I can't generate further coherent thoughts, but magic is still in its infancy. If we roll out this new unit (Easing our transport burdens as well---moving 100 disciplined and equipped troops is 10x easier yet just as effective as moving 1000 untrained, unarmored, unarmed rabble to the same front) we might just be able to buy ourselves the time required to research magic. Specifically, magic that disables the big ones. If we get a spell of power-word-kill or whatever that can only be used once per mage per battle, we can still kill all their soldier drones and then let the phalangites mop up the rest.

[Happerry]

Magic School: 2 (Nirur, Stabby)
Phalangites: 3 (Madman, Jilladilla, Happerry)