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Author Topic: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]  (Read 9435 times)

Nirur Torir

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2017, 06:45:14 pm »

Are limited budget changes ever free? Say, if 30 turns from now the League revised an arcane archer (not-elite, but too expensive to be a direct upgrade) unit from bowmen, would we be able to shift however much bowman budget to it we want?
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RAM

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2017, 08:32:28 pm »

I worry that ideal peasants are a bit too simplistic of a measure. There are some configurations that are effectively invulnerable against unarmed opponents in combat situations and could essentially kill as many peasants as they can reach, and could, over the course of years, go through millions. Meanwhile, a very lethal critter with obvious weaknesses might be able to go through ideal peasants at an extreme rate, provided that they are not surrounded, and thus, in a one-versus-many encounter kills far fewer than a more consistently resilient unit would, but when employing formations and tactics to cover their exposed rears accounts for a far larger proportion of their team's kills.

Also there is the issue of units specifically suited to numerous but unskilled opponents. Something that effectively immune to peasants might be outmanoeuvred and pierced by trained soldiers with hard and heavy weapons, while a critter suited to killing professional soldiers with lethal hit-and-run tactics might be swarmed and torn apart by a similar number of fast and desperate peasants.

And then there is the issue of actually killing these peasants. An inebriation spell might be very good at reducing enemy performance, but not actually enough to kill anyone by itself. A wizard with Booze Cloud(an area--effect), Bite of the Paranoid Shroom(a weapon enchantment), and Spear of the Malevolent Chilli(a ranged bolt that causes pain and potentially blindness) might have a kill-rating of around 2 or 3, but might be the difference between a bunch of spearmen being overwhelmed handily or holding a pass for hours.

Then there is the matter of ammunition. An Olympic gold-medallist marksman with a rifle and 5 bullets might well be able to kill 5 peasants and then beat up a sixth with their rifle, but make it 7 and they go down in a two-to-one brawl. But those first five kills could have been something much more intimidating than a mere peasant.

Perhaps a compromise would be to have a number of ideal peasants killed with an upper limit to it, and then add a time that is required to kill them.
Or maybe the scale jumps to a new standard at certain points. Like, there is no such thing as killing 10 ideal peasants, because instead of ten ideal peasants, you get one ideal tiger, and if you are up to ten ideal tigers, then you jump up to the ideal orca scale. And, effectively, one orca is equal to one hundred peasants, but if you can kill one hundred peasants then it probably isn't the number of peasants that is the determining factor as opposed to it being a matter of getting tired and making mistakes. Orcas, on the other hand, if you can kill an orca then a second orca, or having some tigers and peasants riding on the orca, adds a lot of imminent threat beyond just exhaustion from having to stab them all.

P.S.
*Dons top-hat and carapace-wax. We shall show those barbaric peons the superiority of our superior insectoid culture! We had mastered the art of dance before you vulgar brutes had managed your first stick figures in caves and the lethal wit we shall etch upon your civilisation's eulogy shall for all time demonstrate the worthiness of our cause!
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2017, 08:43:56 pm »

P.S.
*Dons top-hat and carapace-wax. We shall show those barbaric peons the superiority of our superior insectoid culture! We had mastered the art of dance before you vulgar brutes had managed your first stick figures in caves and the lethal wit we shall etch upon your civilisation's eulogy shall for all time demonstrate the worthiness of our cause!
Ew it's a bug. Someone squish it.
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Tack

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2017, 12:42:07 am »

Do we have numbers on the sides? I'll join whichever is fewer
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Sentience, Endurance, and Thumbs: The Trifector of a Superpredator.
Yeah, he's a banned spammer. Normally we'd delete this thread too, but people were having too much fun with it by the time we got here.

Shadowclaw777

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2017, 12:59:53 am »

6+ active participants for Hive, some people are unsure or just general spectation;
I believe the League has less players then.
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Jilladilla

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2017, 02:35:37 am »

Yup, join The League, we need more people. We do have hoplites however, that more than makes up for not being giant insectoid horrors on its own, I feel. And that's before you get into the magic!
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Glory to United Forenia!

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Iituem

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2017, 03:19:48 am »

Are limited budget changes ever free? Say, if 30 turns from now the League revised an arcane archer (not-elite, but too expensive to be a direct upgrade) unit from bowmen, would we be able to shift however much bowman budget to it we want?

Hm.  That's a fair point.  I might adjust that to give, say, 10% free change on Budget (that is to say, up to 10% can be subtracted from other budget items and given to a new one without spending a die).  More than that requires significant re-tooling of production.

Quote from: Lots about Ideal Peasants
-snip-

I may go back and change things, but for the moment I'm comfortable with action happening on a large enough scale to represent it statistically.  Don't take the phrase 'ideal peasants' too literally, it's more representative of a behind-the-scenes numerical value.  I have still to decide on whether to reveal said numbers to the sides (for their own units) yet, however.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 03:23:32 am by Iituem »
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Happerry

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2017, 03:27:03 am »

This looks interesting and I have come to join the noble league in defiance of those evil icky bugs.
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RAM

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2017, 03:30:35 am »

I may have gone overboard with my rant when I realised that it was heading towards unarmed untrained peasants riding on tigers riding on orcas. But then again, if it were that simple, then I probably wouldn't have stopped until dinosaurs got involved...
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

wolfchild

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2017, 04:56:58 am »

PTW for now, might join the hive at some point but im a complete newbie to Arms Race games
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Iituem

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2017, 05:50:00 am »

To clarify a point asked; Yes, you may use a Revision to alter a previously existing design, not just one you've Designed yourself.
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Let's Play Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magic Obscura! - The adventures of Jack Hunt, gentleman rogue.

No slaughtering every man, woman and child we see just to teleport to the moon.

Tack

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2017, 10:44:58 am »

Alright, as much as everyone wants to be giant bugs, I will endeavour to have as much fun killing them.
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Sentience, Endurance, and Thumbs: The Trifector of a Superpredator.
Yeah, he's a banned spammer. Normally we'd delete this thread too, but people were having too much fun with it by the time we got here.

Iituem

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2017, 03:03:59 pm »

Apparently my d6s only want to roll 1s today.
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Let's Play Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magic Obscura! - The adventures of Jack Hunt, gentleman rogue.

No slaughtering every man, woman and child we see just to teleport to the moon.

Shadowclaw777

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2017, 03:12:26 pm »

You need to involve a pity mechanoc, that's the perfect way to make the best style of arms race which is like a "Tug War". Side A will be in the lead for three turns, than Side B will get some spotlight, that's how you make the most intricate game.
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helmacon

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Re: Hive Race: An Asymmetric Arms Race Game [Core Thread]
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2017, 03:49:46 pm »

Does anyone have current player counts for the two factions? I would like to join the under staffed side.
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