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Author Topic: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [End]  (Read 3876 times)

Glass

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 2 SET 2: DONNY]
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2017, 07:21:06 pm »

Donny stole. Keep defending.
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

Ddynamo

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 2 SET 2: DONNY]
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2017, 07:42:05 pm »

defend

Now we are lost in a sea of distrust. Donny defended, you defended. Everybody defended. While Donny didn't get to take advantage of you, it also means you couldn't get any points either.
 - You gained 0 points.
 - Donny gained 0 points.
 - Maximum total points possible (0/2)


 - Bay12's score: 0
 - Donn'ys score: -1


Do you defend, gift, or steal?
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Glass

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 2 SET 2: DONNY]
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2017, 07:48:52 pm »

Defend again.
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

Ddynamo

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 2 SET 2: DONNY]
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2017, 09:17:26 pm »

Defend again.

The both of you are still defending. Nothing was gained, nothing was lost. Looks like we're at a stalemate.
 - You gained 0 points.
 - Donny gained 0 points.
 - Maximum total points possible (0/2)


 - Bay12's score: 0
 - Donny's score: -1


Do you defend, gift, or steal?

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Glass

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 2 SET 2: DONNY]
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2017, 09:32:31 pm »

Ok, they're going to keep defending. Anyone got another idea?

EDIT: I think they're like Violet, except they start by stealing. Let's gift, and then repeat our previous pattern unless they defend when we steal, in which case we need to stop and think about what to do next.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 09:34:29 pm by Glass »
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

Ddynamo

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 2 SET 2: DONNY]
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2017, 09:32:20 am »

Ok, they're going to keep defending. Anyone got another idea?

EDIT: I think they're like Violet, except they start by stealing. Let's gift, and then repeat our previous pattern unless they defend when we steal, in which case we need to stop and think about what to do next.
Defend again.

You gift at a nice offer of peace, but Donny hasn't gotten the message yet and still defends, netting a nice bounty for himself.
 - You lose 1 points.
 - Donny gained 3 points.
 - Maximum total points possible (0/2)


 - Bay12's score: -1
 - Donny's score: 2


Do you defend, gift, or steal?


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Glass

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 2 SET 2: DONNY]
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2017, 09:33:21 am »

Steal.
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

Ddynamo

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 2 SET 2: DONNY]
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2017, 02:34:59 pm »

Steal.

Heh heh heh. You cheat him and get the money he was going to give you, while making him lose a whopping four points! And just in time too, because this match has ended. What? I told you they'd last different times. (This also applied to the AI only battles.)
 - You gained 2 points.
 - Donny lost 4 points.

 - Bay12's final score: 1
 - Donny's score: -2

Let'l look at Violet's other games.
Donny V. Forum - -2/1
Donny V. Violet - -3/-3
Donny V. Harold - 0/-6
Donny V. Noah - 9/-1
Donny V. Dawn - -11/-11
Donny V. Clara - -1/-8

Donny Final Score - -8

You are facing Harold. Do you defend, gift, or steal?


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Glass

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 1 SET 3: HAROLD]
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2017, 03:07:56 pm »

Defend. Starting with defense is safe.
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

IcyTea31

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 1 SET 3: HAROLD]
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2017, 03:28:56 pm »

The dominant strategy to maximize our points is to always defend. Regardless of what the opponent does, it always pays us more than the other two options. If we also want to minimize the opponent's points, stealing dominates gifting but is intransitive with defending. I don't know how these AIs work, but we can't comprehend their thought processes without playing against them way more rounds than we will, so "trusting" them is pointless, as is responding to their moves as if there was any logic or emotion to them.
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Glass

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 1 SET 3: HAROLD]
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2017, 04:02:09 pm »

Violet and Donny always copy what we did the previous round. It's just that V starts with defense and D starts with a steal.
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Quote from: FallacyOfUrist (on Discord, 11/15/21)
Glass is, as usual, correct.
Yep, as ever, I bestow upon Glass the expected +1
I'm gonna say we go with whatever Glass's idea is.

IcyTea31

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 1 SET 3: HAROLD]
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2017, 04:07:25 pm »

Maybe, maybe not. Can you figure out, without a doubt, something like that in 5-9 rounds? The other AIs probably have other 'strategies', but unless we get a prophet who can read them on the fly, sticking to a strategy that is guaranteed end up with a win or a draw is the logical choice for the first round of a competetive game such as this.
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Cathar

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 1 SET 3: HAROLD]
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2017, 04:10:08 pm »

You don't really need to analyse anything with those risks and rewards. Always defend : not only it provides almost the biggest reward (3) but it limits your losses to zero no matter what. Defend beats gift and steal altogether.
You'd need to increase the gifts value to +4/+4 for it to be a reasonable choice.

Ddynamo

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 1 SET 3: HAROLD]
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2017, 04:17:37 pm »

You don't really need to analyse anything with those risks and rewards. Always defend : not only it provides almost the biggest reward (3) but it limits your losses to zero no matter what. Defend beats gift and steal altogether.
You'd need to increase the gifts value to +4/+4 for it to be a reasonable choice.
Always either barely winning or tying sounds good in the short run, but you forget that you're not competing against the person of the round, at least not exactly. In a way, you're competing against everyone else who competed against this AI. With Violet holding the lead at thirty points, always defending isn't going to cut it. This game isn't about minimizing your losses, though that helps. You have to maximize your gains.

EDIT: For example, this very round resulted in a -2/1 win for Bay12, which although isn't much, is still better than the alternative. Had they always defended, it would have only been a 0/-1 win.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 04:28:05 pm by Ddynamo »
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IcyTea31

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Re: [GAME] Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma: Bay12 VS AIs [ROUND 1 SET 3: HAROLD]
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2017, 04:30:39 pm »

To place high among the others who competed against the AI, we must learn how it thinks. Currently, their responses are random for all we know, so using the dominant strategy is a fine starting point for the 'research' if we want to call it that.
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