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[NUKE9.13]

I wasn't suggesting we make a crossbow with a 1000lb draw. Of course not. They existed, but they weren't common or practical except in specialised situations. What I am suggesting is that we could make a bow with five times the draw weight of our current bows without being implausible. That might take multiple revisions, though.

Also, yeah, a portable LAC is gonna be a design. You need all the elements I described, except for the trim crystal, which you might as well add since you have the core crystal anyway.

[Draignean]

Draig, roughly how heavy is an Light Aether Cannon?

800 pounds. Similar in design to this, except considerably lighter and with a shorter barrel due to primarily needing to absorb heat, not contain an explosion.

So, I'd just go right out and ask Draignean: Does this make for a revision? Or does it take too much work to integrate these technologies in this way?

I mean, heck, if necessary we just mount the dumb things in a chopped-down dinghy. That is literally all we're trying for.

Hovercannon is absolutely a design.

(Draignean, were the monster spiders at Three Captains covered in silk, or were our guys too busy not dying to notice?)

Alright. First question: are repairs instantaneous?

When the ship is at a port, yes. So a transport could return to port AND do repairs.

But can a transport be repaired then move and drop off troops? (In the same turn)

No to the first.

No to the second. Movement before action. You can move the damaged ships repair and initiate repairs while loading the marines, but you can't repair and load marines and then move.

[Madman198237]

So, no to this as well?

DIE: Dinghy-based anti-Infantry Emplacement
Based on the standard Dinghy, this much-reduced platform retains the webbing, core crystal, and one trim crystal, forsaking the other trim crystals and a lot of its structure. Gone is the troop-carrying capacity and overall size, instead replaced by the minimal amount of stuff necessary to support a LAC and gunner. Meant to be deployed inside spires, this weapon system should be capable of fitting through most doorways if at all feasible.

Or even just a dinghy carrying a LAC, capable of landing and firing inside Spires, even if not very mobile or capable of flying around too much inside. If we can carry 8 people at 150lb + (These aren't exactly small people, remember. They're soldiers used to carrying things primarily made of bronze) we get at least 1200lb carry capacity. Subtract 300 for two people to operate the dinghy and we get 900 lb to carry an 800lb cannon.
Perfectly safe! As long as you don't, you know, lean or anything. Plus we have enhanced crystals. We might be able to use Itshana selects to fly and fire the gun, but it's not actually meant to do both, at least not at first.

[Jilladilla]

Right, the 2 main reasons why we should pull back from the Unfinished:

One: Our Pincushions are literally useless there. And the squad we lost was one of our two cutlass squads. Meaning half of our remaining squads might as well be unarmed.

Two: The madness is only going to get worse I feel. Until we manage to defend against that (the aethersilk cowls/balaclavas/whatever seem like just the thing), losses will be unsustainable. And even if we start on that now, it won't be done in time to send out with the next batch of reinforcements, other than a handful of prototypes if we get lucky.

And Three: I can see both forces being brought to the edge of ruin by the time reinforcements arrive if we just leave them there. We don't have the resources to properly reinforce both of them, we have to pull back with one of them or risk total losses. (And the transport at the Unfinished is the only one capable of pulling off an immediate evacuation.)


Now for the cannon.... Surely we can just attach a tiny core crystal, a bit of webbing, and wheels to the cannon to let a handful of marines push it around?

No to the second. Movement before action. You can move the damaged ships repair and initiate repairs while loading the marines, but you can't repair and load marines and then move.

....Draignean, does this mean we can't evacuate the troops at the Unfinished back to Wreth in one turn? (If not, I still consider it worth it, like I said, we can really only afford to reinforce one belt spire with our limited ore, and saving that equipment could help out the 3 captains group.)

[Nirur Torir]

A problem with retreating I just realized is that we're likely to get a penalty to returning to to a damaged transport, and they might still be considered in the region (or close enough to get back while we're loading).

[NUKE9.13]

Well, we outnumber them at the Unfinished, right? 4-3? If we revise some better naval tactics, we should be able to protect our transport whilst it loads up. Any reinforcements they send won't arrive in time.

Now for the cannon.... Surely we can just attach a tiny core crystal, a bit of webbing, and wheels to the cannon to let a handful of marines push it around?

Yeah, but if you're adding the core crystal anyway, why not add a trim crystal to make it easier to move around?

[Draignean]

No to the second. Movement before action. You can move the damaged ships repair and initiate repairs while loading the marines, but you can't repair and load marines and then move.

....Draignean, does this mean we can't evacuate the troops at the Unfinished back to Wreth in one turn? (If not, I still consider it worth it, like I said, we can really only afford to reinforce one belt spire with our limited ore, and saving that equipment could help out the 3 captains group.)

It's an excellent point. The answer is yes, it does mean that.

[NUKE9.13]

Ah. That's a little bit of a problem. I guess it takes an entire [month?] to load troops onto a transport.
...wait, if both loading and unloading troops is an action, how were we even able to get our troops to spires in a single turn? Wouldn't it take one turn to load the troops, and then a second to transport and unload them? Or is loading/unloading at Wreth a free action due to the docks there?

I mean, if them's the mechanics, them's the mechanics. But it seems a bit odd that we can't load then move.

[johiah]

I am not going to be able to be active until Wednesday as I am gone, but here are my final thoughts for now.

We need more ore. Frankly, I think we should retreat from the unfinished. It gives no ore and mostly wood, which we have in abundance. Strengthening our crossbows or getting ground cannons are a must.

[milo christiansen]

Ground cannons are a matter of assembling existing tech in s novel new way, so they should be relatively simple. Still a design, but a simple one.

[Madman198237]

I point out, again, mounting a cannon to a dinghy. That is most certainly a revision. That said, it would likely be hit-or-miss as to where it's useful. For instance, such a large device (I'm assuming a dinghy looks like a rowboat) is going to be most useful in the open spaces of the Unfinished, and yet we need it most to frag spiders... Maybe a version that can be rapidly assembled and disassembled? Crap, I really want those die in other places...Ah well.

So, I'd give a couple of options here:
2 Die to Ship Design Progress
1 Die to Ship Tactic Revision
1 Die to Revising the Gauntlets (Make them less user-damaging and possibly improve cooling systems as well)
1 Die to Revising Itshana Select process to make the chemicals more effective (Use less --> cost less)

Or
3 Dice Design Cannon Emplacement
1 Die, Ship Tactics
1 Die, Better Gauntlets
---And then we deploy aetheric gauntlets for fire support where the bows just won't cut it. We'll have (I think) enough ore to make a difference...though it has to wait at least two turns to matter...so yeah...this might get interesting. We're...gonna want more transports.

[Draignean]

Ah. That's a little bit of a problem. I guess it takes an entire [month?] to load troops onto a transport.
...wait, if both loading and unloading troops is an action, how were we even able to get our troops to spires in a single turn? Wouldn't it take one turn to load the troops, and then a second to transport and unload them? Or is loading/unloading at Wreth a free action due to the docks there?

I mean, if them's the mechanics, them's the mechanics. But it seems a bit odd that we can't load then move.

Bah. The idea was to keep things running smoothly, without me having to worry about it. Still, the situations do get odd.

After consideration, I'll finalize it as: you can start with an action (as long as it isn't combat), and then move OR you can move and then end with an action. But you can't action-move-action. If you retreat with soldiers, they are still involved in a final withdrawal action for the combat turn. Clear as mud?

[milo christiansen]

Rocket shells!

What has plenty of stopping power, but no explosive force in the barrel? What is cheap in metal costs? Needs no crystal? No silk? Just a bit ore and wood.

No need for steel at all, just thin copper or wood shells with ceramic nozzles packed with gunpowder and fitted with a bronze penetrator rod (for an infantry version) or a proper warhead (if we want to make larger ones).

Infantry versions could be designed like long barreled rifles, but with relatively light bronze guide rails (and a copper shroud to act as a blast shield) for a barrel. The rockets would need a minimum range to get enough speed, but after that they would be deadly vs most of the things flintlocks can handle (but without worrying about iron rot).

Best of all, reloads would be very fast.

This would not be all that great vs armor, but it would be a better starting place for "machine guns" than crossbows. Crossbows would still be cheaper and would still provide better armor penatration though...

Infantry rocket rifles would be a sideshow compared to anti-ship rocket torpedoes. With sufficient bursting charge such rockets could sink ships quickly and cheaply. Although each rocket would be fairly inaccurate, they would be very cheap to produce, with wooden tubes for bodies and ceramic nozzles.

Something to keep in mind... (damn, I wish I had thought of this on turn 1!)

Edit: Infantry versions probably aren't worth it what with gauntlets and crossbows, but the ship ones would be good transport killers. Probably bad vs armor though... These would have been awesome if done on turn 1, but now? Maybe not even worth it.

[Tack]

I'm thinking either arbalest or flamethrower gauntlet, with the latter possibly being able to damage (or annoy) the big bugs as well as the small ones.

I will say we should start the design on masks, but remember we need oxygen for operating at flight ceiling so if you could also incorporate an air-bladder or something then that would give us at least something spire-capable and ship-capable.
Not starting any designs and relying on Revisions is stagnation in order to get bigger immediate bonuses.

Draig, if they dropped (unequipped)  troops on a spire are they likely to come into contact with our troops first or the hazards?
That answer will probably influence whether or not we want to tech up. Remember, it's about the boots.

[Jilladilla]

So, I'd give a couple of options here:
2 Die to Ship Design Progress
1 Die to Ship Tactic Revision
1 Die to Revising the Gauntlets (Make them less user-damaging and possibly improve cooling systems as well)
1 Die to Revising Itshana Select process to make the chemicals more effective (Use less --> cost less)

Or
3 Dice Design Cannon Emplacement
1 Die, Ship Tactics
1 Die, Better Gauntlets
---And then we deploy aetheric gauntlets for fire support where the bows just won't cut it. We'll have (I think) enough ore to make a difference...though it has to wait at least two turns to matter...so yeah...this might get interesting. We're...gonna want more transports.

I would be behind either of these, the simple fact that the gauntlets fire what is effectively small plasma bolts should let them bring down one of those giant spiders. I would expect it to take a lot of focused fire, but that's still much better than the current situation where they pretty much could just take a nap in the middle of our camps if they wanted.

(Also, +1 to Haze Maze, and +1 to naming the transport at the Unfinished WOSV Implacable (It was rammed by a skiff yet it's still functional!))

(ALSO ALSO, we should bundle our votes for this design phase, with it resembling what we did for our last revision phase. Use this post as a reference for what I'm referring to, if nothing else, it should make it easier on the GM, and make our design phase a bit less of a mess and a bit more coherent. I'll leave it up to you guys to decide though, vote format changes shouldn't just be done because one person feels like it after all... (Main reason I give for doing this is that the votes for Project Advancement and New Designs both use the same pool of resources: Our dice))