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[Jilladilla]

Remember everyone! Last turn's production phase was special! If our plan is to bring the transports back and then send them off with reinforcements immediately, we have to produce the equipment for them THIS turn, as production and deployment are simultaneous now.

We need a heavy duty ranged weapon that doesn't need a ton of ore, maybe we should spend a revision on Aether gauntlets and send those off to our guys at 3 captains? (4c 4o for an entire squad, and it benefits from the Itshana Process, although we could also try sending Suppressors and hope their 40 pound draw weight is enough. (The Pincushion has a 30 pound draw weight, for reference))

(Draignean, were the monster spiders at Three Captains covered in silk, or were our guys too busy not dying to notice?)

If we're stuck on a crossbow type weapon, here is a possibility for another Suppressor variant, although I don't think this will help all that much against the monster spiders:
Suppressor Type-H:
The Type-H builds upon the Standard Model of Suppressor, by increasing the draw weight by reinforcing the bow with bronze. This will undoubtedly render automatic fire unusable, so as a result, minor edits to the mechanism are made to render the restraining pin for automatic fire a permanent feature, and a more traditional trigger system will be added to fire the bolt.

The other mechanisms of the Suppressor will be retained, allowing the Type-H to reloaded much more rapidly than a 'normal' crossbow of similar draw weight, at least until the magazine runs empty.

(Basically a Suppressor with a normal crossbow trigger, the automatic fire restraining pin effectively welded in place, and bronze reinforcements to enhance draw weight. It's intended to give us a reliable ranged weapon that would hopefully defeat body armor, and repurposes the suppressors auto fire mechanisms for reload assistance. This seems within the scale of a revision, although it may increase ore costs. Although, it may not boost power enough to take down those monster spiders...)
Another possibility is trying for body armor for our infantry, although that would be of limited effectiveness at the Unfinished it seems... (We really should've figured that aether levels were high with how it produces 8 crystals...) (While I don't think armor of any effectiveness short of a literal tank would do a thing against the giant monster spiders, if it can prevent the smaller ones from injecting our guys with venom...)
ANOTHER option is evacuating the Unfinished (the transport at 3 captains is too badly damaged for it to do the same...), double down on Three Captains, and let Kasgyr deal with the slendermen in the meantime. We can have our skiffs remain to maintain a blockade, if for no reason other than keep Kasgyr away from Verdant Vista.

EDIT:

Alright. First question: are repairs instantaneous?

When the ship is at a port, yes. So a transport could return to port AND do repairs.

But can a transport be repaired then move and drop off troops? (In the same turn)

[NUKE9.13]

Remember everyone! Last turn's production phase was special! If our plan is to bring the transports back and then send them off with reinforcements immediately, we have to produce the equipment for them THIS turn, as production and deployment are simultaneous now.

Are you sure about that? I think that may be the case for ships, but does it also apply to equipment?

Aether gauntlets are not heavy weapons. At least, I don't think they are. I doubt they'd be capable of taking down a giant spider, and that's assuming they don't turn out to be resistant to aether weapons.

Regarding crossbow revisions, I think we should just drop any pretence of rapid-fire if we want something capable of piercing a giant spider. An arbalest, reloaded using a cranequin, with a draw weight of ~lots, is what we need. If it only fires once a minute, well, one effective shot is worth innumerable ineffective ones.

Body armour sounds implausibly expensive. If it cost the same as silk armour, outfitting a squad would cost 16 Ore.

Retreating from the Unfinished is an option, yeah, which we may want to do. Unless we can figure out a way to send fully equipped reinforcements to both spires, or develop tech that could help against the Unfinished's unique hazards (ie masks).

[Madman198237]

Alright. They've turned to water-cooling for their cannons. This is inefficient but gives early-battle superiority. We can fire longer. We can dodge and outmaneuver. That said, we need to upgrade our ship tactics to focus on outmaneuvering and chipping rather than outright blasting.

I think something like this would be a worthwhile tactics revision:
Outrun, Undermine, Terrorize Maneuvers
Our present tactics rely on running down the enemy and blasting him. Now, we will run around the enemy and blast him, to protect our valuable investments. Nobody likes extra paperwork, people. Keep your thrice-blasted ships out of the way of hostile cannon fire. Use maneuverability as a weapon. Show up where the enemy doesn't expect it, instead of just blindly running at him at top speed. He thinks you can't pull off that lunatic maneuver? Well, you can. So, do it. Outrun their vessels to gain advantage when necessary. Undermine their confidence in their ships. Terrify them by preventing them from being aware of where you're going to strike next. Outrun, Undermine, Terrify, OUTMANEUVER. (It's like a TV ad, isn't it?)

I agree, 2 dice to Cloudrunner.
One die on the OUTMANEUVER revision.
One die to improve user protection on the gauntlets.
One die to make an aetheric cannon portable (Add tripod.)

Draig, roughly how heavy is an Light Aether Cannon?

[NUKE9.13]

Reminder that a portable LAC would also need a core crystal to power it, and webbing. It'd need to look something like this:

PLACE V1.0: The Portable Light Aether Cannon Emplacement consists of a LAC, a miniature core crystal (like those found in a dinghy), two 'wings' of webbing, a bronze tripod, and a single trim crystal, all integrated into a single easily transportable whole. In transport mode, the trim crystal is used to lift the cannon off the ground, allowing it to be pushed around by a single marine. Once it has reached its destination, the tripod is deployed and lowered to the ground, then the trim crystal is disconnected, and all power routed to the cannon.

Also, I was just looking up draw weights for crossbows, to see what sort of numbers would be a good target for an arbalest.
30 pounds, or even 40, is absolutely nothing. There's talk of crossbows with 1000lb draws. A 'Light' crossbow might have a 300-400lb draw. Either Draignean made a mistake, or for some reason we have made bows that are ten times weaker than historical bows.

[milo christiansen]

I had kinda wondered about that... The original suppressor sounded light to me, and with a lever it should have been trivial. I just assumed he goofed the stated weight, but I didn't feel like making an issue of it.

I really like the PLACE, but it will definitely be a design. I'm quite sure we won't be able to make a portable cannon as a revision.

[Nirur Torir]

I'm in favor of falling back from The Unfinished. We can't yet take the attrition from both spires and Kasgyr.

Perhaps an aether flamethrower to the spider tunnels will help.

[Jilladilla]

Perhaps an aether flamethrower to the spider tunnels will help.

Well... Aether weapons were described as effectively being plasma weapons... So that could work.... Would probably be different enough to be a design though.

[milo christiansen]

Falling back would be idiotic. We need to at least make an effort to contest both spires else the enemy will be able to take them. Better to deal with a few spiders in exchange for a strong foothold than to let the enemy get a strong foothold and need to be pushed back.

We have enough time to take 3/4 of each spire before the enemy can land troops. So as long as we can keep the reinforcements coming we only need to push the enemy back one space to take both.

Right now we are getting invaluable combat experience the enemy does not have. We are learning what we need to improve, and they have no idea how well their stuff will work.

[NUKE9.13]

I really like the PLACE, but it will definitely be a design. I'm quite sure we won't be able to make a portable cannon as a revision.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Not a hard design, but a design nonetheless.

Perhaps an aether flamethrower to the spider tunnels will help.

I like this idea. Any notion as to how it might work? Like, are we spraying out liquid aether (is liquid aether even a thing we can do?)

Falling back would be idiotic. We need to at least make an effort to contest both spires else the enemy will be able to take them. Better to deal with a few spiders in exchange for a strong foothold than to let the enemy get a strong foothold and need to be pushed back.

We have enough time to take 3/4 of each spire before the enemy can land troops. So as long as we can keep the reinforcements coming we only need to push the enemy back one space to take both.

Right now we are getting invaluable combat experience the enemy does not have. We are learning what we need to improve, and they have no idea how well their stuff will work.

We could fall back temporarily. The enemy will have just as hard a time taking the spire as we would.
We may not be able to afford to keep the reinforcements coming. See math above; if we skimp on repairs to a transport, we can just afford to send out 6 squads armed with swords, and no other Ore-requiring weapons (which is to say, no other effective weapons).

Our troops have managed to make a foothold, despite being thoroughly outclassed. I don't think they will be able to advance further without weapons that are actually effective against the environment.

[Draignean]

Reminder that a portable LAC would also need a core crystal to power it, and webbing. It'd need to look something like this:

PLACE V1.0: The Portable Light Aether Cannon Emplacement consists of a LAC, a miniature core crystal (like those found in a dinghy), two 'wings' of webbing, a bronze tripod, and a single trim crystal, all integrated into a single easily transportable whole. In transport mode, the trim crystal is used to lift the cannon off the ground, allowing it to be pushed around by a single marine. Once it has reached its destination, the tripod is deployed and lowered to the ground, then the trim crystal is disconnected, and all power routed to the cannon.

Also, I was just looking up draw weights for crossbows, to see what sort of numbers would be a good target for an arbalest.
30 pounds, or even 40, is absolutely nothing. There's talk of crossbows with 1000lb draws. A 'Light' crossbow might have a 300-400lb draw. Either Draignean made a mistake, or for some reason we have made bows that are ten times weaker than historical bows.

That, my friend, is an example of history creep. A light crossbow with a 300 pound draw weight on the lever is about as absurd as a katana burning through steel beams.

The crossbow you initially created is based off the Chinese repeating crossbow, which had, at best, a draw weight of 25 pounds. Source. Now, because of the mechanical leverage of the crossbow lever system, that might translate to a 100lb draw weight for a bow- so they're not utterly worthless.

It's also important to note that medieval crossbows were absolute shite in terms of efficiently turning draw weight into real power. Some of the older examples of high-draw crossbows (700+) are at the same performance as a longbow with a 70 pound draw.

Mistakes may have been made, but I did do my homework on this one.

[milo christiansen]

If we can't properly resupply we should hold in place and fortify what we have, not pull back.

Aetheric flame throwers are still aetheric, and thus blockable by shrouds, or silk. Why not a mundane flamethrower? Possibly pressurized via a crystal of some kind?

About crossbows: The weight given is lever draw weight? That makes much more sense then.

[NUKE9.13]

Right, yeah. So the effective draw weight on the prods is, like, 120-160lbs, then? That's... well, it's still not great, but it's better.

Anyway, I doubt fortifications will help against encroaching insane eldritch horror. Leaving troops there, if we aren't going to reinforce them, is just throwing away men and materiel.

[Madman198237]

Well, NUKE, I'm afraid that THAT'S a design. It's...quite a large extent of stuff. Perhaps if it's less self-mobile and instead is assembled on the spot or moved on a wheeled cart? Then it's just a matter of taking the appropriate technologies with you, to do what the cannon is meant to do, in a slightly different place, instead of basically taking the important parts of a ship and somehow making them float down the hallway.


I'd back up a bit, both of you. A 1000lb draw weight is all but useless on a crossbow. You take over a minute using a winch and windlass system to get the string in place, before placing a bolt, pulling the trigger, and praying that the bolt doesn't hit at a bad angle and shatter into so much useless kindling.

150 is roughly, I'd guess, the max of a "light" crossbow, that can be easily reloaded without mechanical assistance. 1000 was the upper limit of sanity. Much past that and the bolt won't survive firing, let alone the arms and cable. Also, just a 75lb draw weight on a longbow is capable of doing real, and deadly, damage at close range. As in, punching-through-light-plate-armor deadly.

Also, guys, please remember that because firearms are not functional we won't be fighting armored men with ranged weapons. Even a 1000lb crossbow is often ineffective against late-medieval-period European plate armor, properly backed with mail and textile padding. We'll HAVE to develop better aether weapons.

I'd modify your design to be a revision (Maybe), so it looks like this:
PLACE V1.0
A LAC is normally not a man-portable weapon, simply because there is a lot of stuff that has to be hauled with it. This one, however, rests on a small wheeled wooden platform, with a small "box" underneath the cannon body, containing our very smallest core crystal (IF NEEDED to power webbing), hooked up to a minimal amount of webbing.

[milo christiansen]

No matter what we do a mobile infantry cannon will be a design. It just doesn't make sense as a revision.

[Madman198237]

In some respects yes, but really all you're doing is taking the cannon, which we have, and making it fire in a different situation, which we cannot yet. And while there ARE a few more intermediate steps to be taken, this game runs revisions a designs substantially differently.

So, I'd just go right out and ask Draignean: Does this make for a revision? Or does it take too much work to integrate these technologies in this way?

I mean, heck, if necessary we just mount the dumb things in a chopped-down dinghy. That is literally all we're trying for.