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[Madman198237]

OK, then, don't vote?

Because stripping the thing down to a metal-less crossbow should be possible.

In fact, the lever/repeating mechanism in general probably doesn't need a lot of metal anyway. A wooden lever rotating on a wooden dowel/axle should work just fine for pushing the string back.

[Jilladilla]

Trying to make sweeping design changes will surely impose complexity penalties.

Really, the only major design work here is the stock, to cut down any excess that was in place to support all the mechanisms; pretty much all of the other changes involve ripping things off the crossbow.

Draignean, I feel that this is going to be obvious, but is it possible to cut a resource cost of something down to the point where it's negligible?

[milo christiansen]

This proposal is trying to change every single thing about the crossbow that is in the least bit complicated. This is trying to put a design in a revision!

The only part retained is the bow! The stock is modified, the trigger is changed, the cocking lever is changed, ect. We could probably get better results by cheapening what is there, instead of replacing it entire.

The suppressor mk2 is a revision of the basic suppressor design, with the original overly complicated trigger system replaced with a cruder one that has a minimum​ of moving parts. The operation is more or less unchanged, but internally the same lever is used for manual and automatic triggering, and several unnecessary linkages are removed.

Many other pieces of the structure are made from wood, or pegged instead of nailed, but the basic structure is otherwise unchanged.

[Jilladilla]

This proposal is trying to change every single thing about the crossbow that is in the least bit complicated. This is trying to put a design in a revision!

The only part retained is the bow! The stock is modified, the trigger is changed, the cocking lever is changed, ect. We could probably get better results by cheapening what is there, instead of replacing it entire.

The stock is mentioned, yes, and I give you a point about the trigger, the cocking lever isn't changed, it's REMOVED, and so are the rest of the changes. I've been mentioning a stripped down Suppressor for a while milo, and that's what this is, a Suppressor stripped down to the bare essentials of a crossbow to make it cheap.

Don't forget that our last revision reworked the lever and boosted the power of the bow, and it technically succeeded despite rolling a 2 (Easing use and boosting power on a repeater are sort of.... Conflicting goals with how the suppressor works, so yes, boosting power while retaining it's accuracy at full-auto is a success.). And simply removing things that aren't structurally important doesn't really seem like a major design challenge...

(I'm not going to rehash my argument again, and I ask that you to do the same. May the best revision win.)

[milo christiansen]

Still no. It isn't worth losing the only real strength the crossbow has, namely the fact that it's still effective in close range do we don't need to give our guys swords too.

[Jilladilla]

Still no. It isn't worth losing the only real strength the crossbow has, namely the fact that it's still effective in close range do we don't need to give our guys swords too.

It only has 5 shots, if they get caught with only 1 or 2 bolts left in the magazine or if they fail to stop the guys with swords attacking them, well then they're out of luck. Either way, yes, the Type-B does remove the main strength of the suppressor, but it would gain the strength of being absolutely dirt cheap, if it's successful enough, hopefully it becomes something we can truly literally hand everyone not using better if we want.

[Draignean]

Suppressor Repeating Crossbow
Progress: 6 +1 Die Banked
Project Complete!

The Suppressor is completed just in time to add to war effort, offering a cheap weapon with limited ranged capability and ability to perform striking acts of barrage fire.

Cloudrunner
Progress: 6
Current Standing: 9/28

Recent events have caused engineers to briefly set aside their differences with the auditors, throwing themselves completely into their work. They've made striking progress on the Cloudrunner, though she's still too far out for more than the skeleton of the prototype hull to be complete.


It is now the Revision Phase. You have 3 dice left to spend.

[Nirur Torir]

Suppressor Type-B Light Crossbow (1): Nirur
Skyskiff Pattern B (1): Nirur

Right, my suggestion for the cheaper Suppressor revision:

Suppressor Type-B Light Crossbow
The Type-B variant takes a radical departure from the standard model Suppressor: It completely removes all of the fancy mechanisms and magazines, everything that made the Suppressor a repeating crossbow. After this fairly simple process is finished, the stock will be redesigned, as it no longer has to support all the bulky equipment that the Standard Model has to. Any modifications to the bow are to be avoided unless absolutely necessary, in order to retain power and range.

It is expected that these modifications will allow the Type-B to be a very cheap ranged option that retains the Suppressors draw weight.
(Basically, remove the ore cost, see if we could maybe possibly knock down the wood cost a bit too; but get a crossbow that can hit just as hard as the current Suppressor. The B stands for Budget.)

Depending on how many dice we retain and if we get any other good revision write-ups (whether edits to existing techs or new tactics), I'll post the Type-H variant idea I had in a bit. (The H stands for heavy, but we can't really use it now) But either way, suggest edits, post alternative proposals for removing that ore cost, make write-ups of revisions for other things, or just add to the Bureaucracy Loving Nation that is Spire Wreth.

Upgrade the lift and trim crystals to the Itshana Select variant.

Each skyskiff is outfitted with
2 Light Aether Cannons.
1 Very Small Basic Core Crystal
1 Very Small Itshana Select Lift Crystal
2 Itshana Select Trim Crystals
2 Basic Trim Crystals
2 reams of webbing

I'd like to use the final die on a cannon revision.

[milo christiansen]

Suppressor Type-B Light Crossbow (1): Nirur
Suppressor mk2 (1): Milo
Skyskiff Pattern B (1): Nirur

I'll vote for a better cannon cooler too is someone writes that up.

[Jilladilla]

Excellent luck! Now onto revision voting, although remember we have 3 dice, so maybe we should hold off on conjuring the votebox until we get a few more suggestions, so we can all have a few more possibilities for voting other than 'Vote for the Suppressor Type-B and save 2 dice' and Vote for the Suppressor mk2 and save 2 dice' (Someone suggested a better cooling system for our aether cannon, for instance? Suggestions people!)

If no one posts a suggestion soon I'll toss out my Suppressor Type-H for variety (We don't need the Type-H now, and we can't really use it now due to lack of ore.)


(Ok, slow typing, Nirur, I don't think we need a revision to replace our crystals with Itshana Select, we just choose to use them when we build a thing... Draignean can you confirm or deny? Unless you meant updating our current production line.) Nevermind.
(Also, let's vote for plans on how to deal with the entire revision phase, not individual revisions, that seems the simplest way to not make the votebox a complicated disaster. IE: Suppressor Type-B and save 2 dice or Suppressor mk2, better cannon cooler and save 1 die)

[Nirur Torir]

Yes, my proposal is another pattern for the production line.

[milo christiansen]

The skyskiff revision is needed to change the production pattern. If we wanted to build separate skyskiffs there would be no need force revision, but changing the production pattern needs a revision.

Also, addin TWO select crystals will greatly reduce the number of skiffs we can field. Probably not a good idea at this point.

Another idea that was fielded was reducing costs for our select crystals. New skiff production patterns would be better with that... But I think better cannons and cheaper *unerfed* crossbows is more important.

[Jilladilla]

Yeah, that's +7 ore per Skyskiff... Won't do good things to our capacity, and might kick the build rate down to 1/turn...

[Nirur Torir]

Oh, yes, the core is pretty expensive. Just the lift and trim crystals, then? It might still increase the shroud strength, judging by the flavor text, and trim crystals are cheap.

[milo christiansen]

I don't think anyone is willing to cut skyskiff numbers in any way at this point. This is definitely an idea of later once we have cheapened the crystals a little... It's a good idea, I like it, but I think it's too early.

I was all for better skyskiff crystals earlier, but then I found out it would cut numbers...