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Author Topic: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth  (Read 162007 times)

Jilladilla

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #315 on: July 17, 2017, 05:42:59 pm »

We can't build three, not without compromising lifting power and maneuverability. Basically, if we did that I could EASILY see Draig telling us "Sorry, but you showed up after their faster transports and lost the spire".

We go with two, cut off the enemy, then we grab the two spires in the center before reinforcing our two guard spires (The ones preventing access to both the central spires and our own demispires.)
The idea is to use the budget transport for our local spires, not to blitz the middle spires. You raise a point though, unless we cheapen the Itshana Process, we aren't going to have enough ore to decently outfit two attack groups.

(Cheap wood only crossbows would help a ton, but they won't be enough alone, although, going back to my initial math (The 2 normal transports 1 'budget' one) we would be able to outfit 4 out of 6 of our assault squads with swords (2 going to each middle spire), and hand literally everyone a cheap crossbow (Although handing out that many is a little extreme...). Would have only 1 ore leftover though, unless we cheapened the Itshana process. Of course the budget transport is used to start claiming our immediate demispires, saving the proper transports for the middle line. But still, the budget checks out, and would let us adequately make an assault on both Three Captains and the Unfinished.)
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Madman198237

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #316 on: July 17, 2017, 05:50:51 pm »

I think it's not worth the risks inherent in making a weaker transport just because it gives us the sorta-maybe ability to transport some unit(s) to a nearby spire and then never use the thing again.
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milo christiansen

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #317 on: July 17, 2017, 06:11:34 pm »

Madman has a point, but we could swap the crystals out later with something that legitimately uses small crystals.

I guess I don't really care either way though....
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Jilladilla

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #318 on: July 17, 2017, 06:11:56 pm »

But Draignean said that using an Itshana Select VS crystal would still work reasonably?
Giving a transport a VS core or a VS lift would strain it to the utmost, and would be asking for disaster.  Both would be impossible.
Using Itshana crystals would reduce efficacy by a bit, but the transport could still function reasonably.
If it works we'll get our resources up and running much faster than we would otherwise, just load up a pair of un-armed marine squads and drop one off at each of our adjacent demispires, and the added ore cost would be more than offset by getting that +6 ore and +3 ore from our local demispires (As I doubt we would be making another pair of transports so soon) 1 turn earlier. (And if we forgo making ANY new transports, the gains would be greater than that!) After that we would still be able use it as a somewhat sub-par transport, but it would still be useable. And if you're still unsure we could always refit (and use the VS Itshana Core in something else) or just scrap the damn thing after it does its job!
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Madman198237

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #319 on: July 17, 2017, 06:18:10 pm »

At which point we've wasted both the crystals and the ore required to make them.

I just can't see a reason to forgo ALL PROGRESS on the ship design in exchange for bringing along a few extra marines to a place that will basically always be open for us to conquer.


Draignean, how long does it take a ship to reload with marines and travel back to a Spire on the Belt?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 06:19:47 pm by Madman198237 »
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Jilladilla

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #320 on: July 17, 2017, 06:23:03 pm »

At which point we've wasted both the crystals and the ore required to make them.
Even in the event it loses 33% of its transport capacity, it would still come across roughly even in crystal to transport capacity ratio (compared to normal transports, remember, 30% cheaper in crystal costs!).

Now yes, it's much less efficient ore wise, but it would pay for itself on ore simply by getting us those spires earlier!
Silk is the same. And I don't think we really care about wood too much right now.

EDIT TO REPLY TO YOUR EDIT: We won't be able to get the Cloudrunner this turn without heavy investment and really good luck, this would stall it a turn, yes, but we would still be able to make some progress on it.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 06:25:48 pm by Jilladilla »
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #321 on: July 17, 2017, 06:26:25 pm »

I'd like to propose not starting any more major research projects without at least 5 die, spending 2 each on cost and duration. With a d6's average roll of 3.5, a duration of 28 takes an average of 8 progess dice.

I just can't see a reason to forgo ALL PROGRESS on the ship design in exchange for bringing along a few extra marines to a place that will basically always be open for us to conquer.
We can bank the research die.
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Madman198237

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #322 on: July 17, 2017, 06:31:54 pm »

We can bank the die, but that ship will give us an early lead in firepower and survivability.

Especially if we make an infantry-portable repeating aether cannon and mount it on the ship. Because it will kill two birds with one stone by ripping apart Aethersilk webbing and destroying attacking infantry.
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milo christiansen

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #323 on: July 17, 2017, 06:33:52 pm »

Nothing we can do will make that ship ready in time. Rolling 2 for time really screwed that plan.
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Madman198237

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #324 on: July 17, 2017, 06:41:00 pm »

Pretty much, yeah.

As for doubling down, the OP in the core thread is a little vague, but the (para)phrase(ed) "minimum of 3 die" seems to suggest that yes, we could double down on dice.

Draignean, how does the above work (Does it?)?
Also, darn are we asking a lot of questions. Well, I guess it's all your fault anyway, GM. You changed the customary AR rules, and now we ask you questions so we can best work outside your rules and drive you to insanity.
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Jilladilla

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #325 on: July 17, 2017, 06:44:43 pm »

Madman, spending extra dice on a project works as thus:

Time and Expense roll at advantage, using the highest result of any dice rolled for them.
Initial Progress is a simple sum of all dice, buuut IIRC it can't bring the progress past 50%.

...At least, that's how it was originally suggested in the generic Arms Race/Design Bureau thread thingy... Don't know if Draignean changed anything.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 06:47:09 pm by Jilladilla »
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Tack

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #326 on: July 17, 2017, 08:33:01 pm »

Boy the Kasgyres are taking a lil' while with their revision phase though.

So, if I'm getting the gist right, getting a prototype for the cloudrunner would be a great idea, but also will need an extra 11 research. Balance of probability says we'll need 3 dice.
That gives us one to fix the crossbow with and one to cheapen the select crystals with.
But it Also will cost us the resources needed to make our spire rush the best it can be- until we know how cheap our revision will make the crystals.
It feels like a hell of a gamble.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 08:41:38 pm by Tack »
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Madman198237

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #327 on: July 17, 2017, 08:54:05 pm »

I'm going to recommend the following: Produce EVERYTHING for that spire rush ASAP.

Quote from: Battle Plan
Rush "Belt" Spires: (1) Madman198237
Rush the Unfinished, take homeside demispire: (0)
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Tack

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #328 on: July 17, 2017, 09:02:58 pm »

Quote from: Battle Plan
Rush "Belt" Spires: (1) Madman198237
Rush the Unfinished, take homeside demispire: (1) Tack
Call me jumpy but I am very much not a fan of "heavily infested"
Let's wait until we have marine teams enough to ram down its teeth.
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #329 on: July 17, 2017, 09:40:27 pm »

It is the beginning of 353 AR. All is not well

All is not well at all.

The primitive Kasgyrian bastards have finally crossed the line. Their ships have made unprovoked raids on sovereign Wrethian territory, and though the limited reports available are too confused to make out any concrete details regarding their vessels, we can measure their treachery in blood and lives.

The time has come for war, to finally bring these savages into the light, and ensure that they never have an opportunity to take advantage of our trust again.

11/y Crystal, 28/55 Banked
8/y Ore, 24/40 banked
18/y Wood, 71/90 banked
7/y Silk, 28/35 banked

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