Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Nirur Torir]

Alright, alright. As the GM said, there's no need to build better dockyards if we want transports. We can build them manually. We should build at least two before the start of the game, so that we can deploy marines to the two spires near us that we don't control.

I would ideally like 4, since that's how many spires we could reach in one turn. Unless we can drop troops and continue.

After four turns, we'll have made 44c, 32o, 72w, and 28s. A transport costs 10c, 7o, 2w, and 4s. I don't think we can actually get 4, since research costs resources, and we'll want to arm our marines (We have so much wood, since we don't need to build more docks. Let's revise up some improvised clubs).

Question: Can a transport move, drop troops, then move again and drop the rest of its troops at a second location?

[Draignean]

Question: Can a transport move, drop troops, then move again and drop the rest of its troops at a second location?

No. If you've got an action in your destination, you stop.

Edit: Unless there are objections soon, I'll lock in the scattergun.

[NUKE9.13]

(We have so much wood, since we don't need to build more docks. Let's revise up some improvised clubs).

It only costs 2 ore to equip an entire unit with bronze swords. I don't think we have to resort to wooden clubs.
What we could do, though, which would also use our plentiful wood supplies, is crossbows. A crossbow compares favourably in range and accuracy to a shitty gun, and would be far more reliable. Something like

"Jikijela" Crossbow: Gunpowder is great and all, but when your gun has a 50% chance of blowing up every time you fire it, you start to wonder if a more... 'primitive' solution might not work better. The Jikijela Crossbow is made out of the finest woods from the Verdant Vista, with bronze fittings, and fires wooden bolts tipped with bronze. Much effort has been dedicated to the wood, which is not simply taken from any old tree, but is a composite of various specific woods for optimum performance. It is (ideally) reloaded using a simple lever, allowing for a fairly powerful bow that fires at least three times a minute.
Though less deadly than an aetheric gauntlet or rifle, a crossbow cannot overheat, and can be fired multiple times in quick succession without exploding. It will give our marines a reliable weapon for long-range engagements.

[milo christiansen]

I assume you mean a lever-operated repeating crossbow?

Normal crossbows are really slow to fire...

[Khan Boyzitbig]

Based on that logic we could just mount Ballistas on our ships too. Highly accurate and ignores the shroud, only good for a while though as the enemy will certainly start armouring the cores and weapons so that a ballista is no longer viable but at that point we would likely be replacing them with new aetheric weapons ourselves or whatever.

[NUKE9.13]

I assume you mean a lever-operated repeating crossbow?

Normal crossbows are really slow to fire...

It'd fire faster than our guns do either way.
I guess I should specify a reloading system.

We could do ballistae. But I feel they wouldn't do enough damage.

[milo christiansen]

Hence why I keep insisting that we should ignore aetheric cannons and build bronze gunpowder cannons. A bronze lead+sulfur shotgun would ruin web, AND Pierce shields to set hulls on fire.

Edit: for anti-web we use sulfur coated lead shot. For anti-hull we use larger shot held together in a lump by cast sulfur. The first would spread fire over an area, the second would hold together better, but would break up on impact somewhat.

[NUKE9.13]

I think the reason aetheric cannons destroy web is that the burst of pure aether 'overloads' the web, not that it sets it on fire.

Plus, I mean, it is stated in the setting: guns work, but not very well. The GM will bend the laws of physics to make aetheric cannons better than bronze cannons, and be well within his rights to do so.
Which is not to say we can't ever do bronze cannons. Just that we need to accept that our main ship-ship weapon is gonna be aetheric cannons.

EDOOT: Actually, Draignean, could you clarify whether aetheric cannons destroy web by overloading it, or setting it on fire?

[Jilladilla]

"Jikijela" Crossbow: Gunpowder is great and all, but when your gun has a 50% chance of blowing up every time you fire it, you start to wonder if a more... 'primitive' solution might not work better. The Jikijela Crossbow is made out of the finest woods from the Verdant Vista, with bronze fittings, and fires wooden bolts tipped with bronze. Much effort has been dedicated to the wood, which is not simply taken from any old tree, but is a composite of various specific woods for optimum performance.
Though less deadly than an aetheric gauntlet or rifle, a crossbow cannot overheat, and can be fired multiple times in quick succession without exploding. It will give our marines a reliable weapon for long-range engagements.

...I like this idea, maybe we should look into ballista as a non-magic anti-ship weapon, would definitely be less expensive (relatively) than a mundane cannon.

I assume you mean a lever-operated repeating crossbow?

Normal crossbows are really slow to fire...

Pretty sure it's still faster than a flintlock, or at least comparable in speed. Either way, our guns have an issue with exploding; a blown up gun won't be shooting anymore.


.....I type too darn slow... I was going to be the first to suggest ballista and 2 of you guys go and beat me to the punch...

[Madman198237]

The issue with ballista is going to be the same one Moskurg has already run into on Wands Race: Ballista can't crack armor. Developing that kind of raw power is INSANELY hard with torsion. As in, "basically impossible without some form of magical intervention".

[NUKE9.13]

Also, I am going to suggest that we develop a better hull, if not in these opening turns, then at least fairly early on.

Something like

Cloudrunner-class Sloop: Whilst not a large vessel by any means, the Cloudrunner is nevertheless substantially bigger than the Skyskiff, with four times the crew and (almost) four times the guns. In terms of size, she resembles the Transport Barge, though her hull shape is radically different; far sleeker and sturdier, with the (small) lift crystal held firmly in place to allow for more daring manoeuvres, and she weighs less (or rather has a lower load capacity), thus has more power available for guns and agility. Though she is not designed to withstand serious punishment, her hull is strong enough to tank at least a single shot from a LAC. She has a single mast from which webbing spars protrude, and like the Skyskiff, a sail can be attached in an emergency. 
Target specs for a standard loadout:
Armament
7 light cannon mounts. Three on each side, one swivel-mounted on the fore. (7 crystal, 7 ore)
Requires:
1 Small Core Crystal (6 crystal)
1 Small Lift Crystal (3 crystal, 2 ore)
10 Trim Crystals (5 crystal)
8 reams of webbing (16 silk)
Hull cost: 15? Wood, 6? Ore (guessing)
Total cost (estimate): 21 crystal, 15 ore, 15 wood, 16 silk.

EDIT: This would take some time to build, but it would tear through opposing Skyskiffs, and stand off against hypothetical larger opposing vessels.

[Madman198237]

I'd apply decent copper plating for protection instead of going with a light-armor design. It should be capable of taking multiple hits and continuing to fly. I want to build something solidly reliable. Basically, all we're designing now is the hull, so after the following conjecture I'm going to propose a similar plan:

In fact, we may want to experiment with some form of steel "shielding", as in a last-ditch-defense layer made of steel, protected by the copper or bronze primary armor. Anywhere that an aetheric weapon burns through the weaker copper or bronze plating, it will reach steel, which will certainly last to the end of the battle. If it can't be patched, the steel will rust in the area exposed to the air, but the ship will have been saved and can be repaired.

To that end, let's try something easy yet adaptable like this:

Windrider class Frigate
This simple hull is much larger than the Skyskiff, roughly equal to the Transport Barge in length, though it is substantially thinner and lighter, as it has no need for cargo capacity. The hull is made entirely of wood, with a basic copper "skin" to prevent total failure in the event of a single aetheric cannon hit. The real genius, however, lies in its adaptability. It has 8 mountings for weapons, three per side, one fore and one aft, internal space left open for all the crystals in any configuration that you could ever want, and its armor plates are notched, allowing additional copper or bronze armor plates to be mounted directly to the ship with ease, or for them to be removed or replaced even easier.

I won't speculate on the projected costs, but this ship will be capable of taking any upgrades and adaptations we throw its way, without being terribly difficult. This should give us a designing advantage, as we just call in one or two of these hulls for refits whenever something new is deployed.


Draignean, what does a dockyard capable of running a production line for Transport Barges look like? How about one capable of producing the above frigate?

[milo christiansen]

I like the windrider...

We should probably do that next after our anti-web weapon. (Or third after a magazine fed infantry crossbow)

[Madman198237]

No, because that's a zerg-rush tactic and it appears to be that we are going to play long-term.

I'm not joking about getting our order of operations straight, guys: Build up to be able to hit them harder later, rather than trying to do infrastructure AND a straight early attack.

I do NOT want that anti-webbing thing done first. First, I want an answer to my question, THEN I want to improve crystal infrastructure. We need so much that improving our production quality and possibly even quantity can only be a good thing.

[NUKE9.13]

Madman, if you want to improve our crystal production the best way to do that is Zerg Rush the Unfinished. It produces 8 Crystal. Unless you mean improving the quality, in which case yes, that is another design we should do.
Draignean pretty clearly stated that we cannot get to a small-sized dockyard capable of building a transport or the two small ships proposed in any short amount of time. I take this to mean that we should build our infrastructure up slowly.
I object to calling the Windrider a frigate. It is far too small to be a frigate. Also, armour plating is an add on, not something built into the hull. Also also, the layout I suggested for the Cloudrunner is only the standard layout, obviously we could load up the basic hull however we want. I only put the loadout in there to demonstrate what sort of hull I am looking for. If we wanted to, we could armour it with copper plating.