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Author Topic: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth  (Read 162186 times)

Tack

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #615 on: July 23, 2017, 11:22:17 pm »

Their carapace is able to deflect/tank shots from an aether gauntlet. At close range you'll get a good dent or penetration.
That involves being at close range to a car-sized poisonous spider.


The issue is that we have two different phases we need to divvy our dice between, making it very difficult.
We are technically supposed to have discussion in the revision phase about what to revise, but we have three problems and five dice to divide between them.
Quote from: Design Phase
Ongoing Projects:
Invest 2 die into the Cloudrunner:
Invest 1 die into the Cloudrunner, Bank 1: (2) NUKE9.13, Tack
 -Spending 1 Ore, 6 Wood.
Bank all Dice:

New Designs:
Type I HEM: (1) NUKE9.13
Heavy Emplacement Cannon Mk1: (1) Tack
Dinghy Infantry Cannon Mk1:
Quote from: Revision Phase
Bugswatting:
Exterminator Heavy Arbalest:
Higher-powered Gauntlets:
Longer-Firing Gauntlets:
Improved Flintlocks:

Ship Combat:
Search and Destroy (Outrun, Undermine, Terrorize)
Counter-Dive (Roll-and-Broadside)

Anti-Insanity measures
-

Quote from: Roll and Broadside
The enemy ships seem to enjoy diving upon us from above and behind, taking us unawares and before shrouds can be raised and cannons prepared.
Clearly we should task lookouts to keeping their eyes above at all times, and giving silent warning of any ships lurking and preparing to attack.
Thus, the skilful captain can subtly prepare a broadside, whilst dropping power to off-side trim crystals to roll the cannon deck sideways and upwards.
This way the diving enemy ships find themselves diving directly into our teeth, before they can even unleash their first salvo.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 11:29:17 pm by Tack »
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milo christiansen

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #616 on: July 23, 2017, 11:29:59 pm »

Quote from: Design Phase
Ongoing Projects:
Invest 2 die into the Cloudrunner:
Invest 1 die into the Cloudrunner: (3) NUKE9.13, Tack, Milo
 -Spending 1 Ore, 6 Wood.
No project advancement:

New Designs:
PLACE:
Type I HEM: (1) NUKE9.13
Heavy Emplacement Cannon Mk1: (1) Tack
Dinghy Infantry Cannon Mk1:
No design this turn: (1) Milo
Quote from: Revision Phase
Bugswatting:
Exterminator Heavy Arbalest:
Higher-powered Gauntlets:
Longer-Firing Gauntlets:
Improved Flintlocks:

Ship Combat:
Search and Destroy (Outrun, Undermine, Terrorize)
Counter-Dive (Roll-and-Broadside)

Anti-Insanity measures
-
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 11:35:28 pm by milo christiansen »
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #617 on: July 24, 2017, 12:26:12 am »

I feel like we should also add a non-binding strategy vote, so we know what we're working towards.
I was going to vote for 2 dice into the Cloudrunner, but we just don't have the Ore to do that and equip reinforcements with any reasonable amount of weaponry. Speaking of Ore shortages, I don't think we can afford to start (and finish next turn) any designs that would use Ore either, so cannons are out.
...the only revision I think is really important that we get right is the arbalest, ie the one armour-piercing weapon that we can afford to develop and deploy (gauntlets are not armour-piercing). We spend one die on that this turn, then spend another die next turn to fix it if necessary. We can do any other revisions next turn and still deploy them that same turn.
Which leaves us with three dice. Enough to start a design. You know what, I'm going to stay on masks. It'll use up the silk that we just have lying around, and we'll need them eventually.

Quote from: Strategy
The Unfinished
Retreat: (1) NUKE9.13
No Retreat:
Quote from: Design Phase
Ongoing Projects:
Invest 2 die into the Cloudrunner:
  -Spending 2 Ore, 12 Wood.
Invest 1 die into the Cloudrunner: (3) NUKE9.13, Tack, Milo
 -Spending 1 Ore, 6 Wood.
No project advancement:

New Designs:
PLACE:
Type I HEM: (1) NUKE9.13
Heavy Emplacement Cannon Mk1: (1) Tack
Dinghy Infantry Cannon Mk1:
No design this turn: (1) Milo
Quote from: Revision Phase
Bugswatting:
Exterminator Heavy Arbalest: (1) NUKE9.13
Higher-powered Gauntlets:
Longer-Firing Gauntlets:
Improved Flintlocks:

Ship Combat:
Search and Destroy (Outrun, Undermine, Terrorize)
Counter-Dive (Roll-and-Broadside)

Anti-Insanity measures
-
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Jilladilla

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #618 on: July 24, 2017, 01:23:00 am »

Not even remotely close to what I meant in changing the format Tack... But I guess it works for planning at the very least... Need to practice properly enunciating what I mean...

(Draignean, if we decide to deploy a prototype, will it be available for deployment immediately? Do we have to pay for the prototype?)
Yes, the answer to the first question will likely decide my vote, if a prototype would be able to be deployed immediately, I will go for a portable cannon. Even if we have to pay for it, it can come out of next turns ore, which due to production and deployment happening simultaneously, we will not be able to use for the immediate reinforcements otherwise... If not, well starting a project won't cost ore, now would it? And if we go for something that starts off very similar to the LAC, it should be easy enough to get a prototype between initial progress and advancement dice next turn.
We need something heavy duty to at least contest the giant spiders so they can't just walk all over us. Rifles cost too much ore, the suppressor definitely is not built to be an arbalest, even with multiple revisions (Remember! Diminishing returns! And we already spent one on boosting the power!), and while I maintain that gauntlets will likely eventually bring one down (via EVENTUALLY melting through its carapace), I will admit that they'll have minimal effect unless we absolutely spam entirely unfeasible numbers of them. As such, we need a Heavy Weapon Design of some variety if we're going to double down on Three Captains, even if it isn't ready in time for the next reinforcement wave.
However, one alternate plan is to leave the current forces at Three Captains to their fates and build up a proper assault force to either belt spire.
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #619 on: July 24, 2017, 02:21:21 am »

(Draignean, if we decide to deploy a prototype, will it be available for deployment immediately? Do we have to pay for the prototype?)

Immediately. Technically it's already built, you're just pushing it into service.
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Tack

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #620 on: July 24, 2017, 02:21:57 am »

Draig, if they dropped (unequipped)  troops on a spire are they likely to come into contact with our troops first or the hazards?
Also: Is it possible to research designs which affect our design speed or amount of dice? Not sure of the rules re: wishing for more wishes.

Not even remotely close to what I meant in changing the format Tack... But I guess it works for planning at the very least... Need to practice properly enunciating what I mean...
I assumed you were after something with consolidated options, but I don't think I've got the brainpower to factor all of the possible outcomes and make up an unbiased list of things to make happen.

Currently I'm pretty stuck on whether or not to even put a dice towards the cloudrunner given our issues with the spires as well as attempting to stay ahead of the technology of our competitor.
If we're going to stay with the Kings, we'll require either an emplacement cannon or an arbalest- I would prefer a cannon because it makes us more defensible against both air and ground, and I would prefer a heavy cannon because it represents a tech option we'll be wanting later in the game (if we make it that far)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 02:27:48 am by Tack »
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #621 on: July 24, 2017, 02:27:35 am »

Draig, if they dropped (unequipped)  troops on a spire are they likely to come into contact with our troops first or the hazards?

Depends on how much territory the enemy has. Until one side can completely capture a Spire, all hazards remain in play. So, if the total territory captured by both sides is <4, then there's a chance you'll just be working against the hazards. Otherwise you'll be working against the enemy AND the hazards.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #622 on: July 24, 2017, 02:38:16 am »

A heavy cannon would be substantially harder to design than simply repurposing a LAC. If we went for the PLACE, we might be able to get a prototype without spending too much Ore (which I will remind you we are criminally short on).

I suppose that even a single PLACE would actually be quite helpful for our marines in the Three Captains. And thinking about it, we don't actually have to repair both transports, since we'd only be sending one to the Captains if we retreat from the Unfinished, so we have 2 extra ore to play with- should be enough to get us a prototype PLACE. Fine, I'll vote for it.

Quote from: Strategy
The Unfinished
Retreat: (1) NUKE9.13
No Retreat:
Quote from: Design Phase
Ongoing Projects:
Invest 2 die into the Cloudrunner:
  -Spending 2 Ore, 12 Wood.
Invest 1 die into the Cloudrunner: (3) NUKE9.13, Tack, Milo
 -Spending 1 Ore, 6 Wood.
No project advancement:

New Designs:
PLACE: (1) NUKE9.13
Type I HEM:
Heavy Emplacement Cannon Mk1: (1) Tack
Dinghy Infantry Cannon Mk1:
No design this turn: (1) Milo
Quote from: Revision Phase
Bugswatting:
Exterminator Heavy Arbalest: (1) NUKE9.13
Higher-powered Gauntlets:
Longer-Firing Gauntlets:
Improved Flintlocks:

Ship Combat:
Search and Destroy (Outrun, Undermine, Terrorize)
Counter-Dive (Roll-and-Broadside)

Anti-Insanity measures
-
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Jilladilla

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #623 on: July 24, 2017, 03:00:32 am »

Not even remotely close to what I meant in changing the format Tack... But I guess it works for planning at the very least... Need to practice properly enunciating what I mean...
I assumed you were after something with consolidated options, but I don't think I've got the brainpower to factor all of the possible outcomes and make up an unbiased list of things to make happen.

Wasn't throwing blame at you, rather at my inability to properly phrase what I meant... The need to work on my enunciation becomes more apparent, it seems...
Still, I'll throw up a mockup of what I meant, although at this point it would probably be a better idea to stick with the current votebox for now at least...

Quote from: Example Design Phase Vote Box
1 dice into advancing Project X, and 3 dice into starting Project Y, save the last die: (2) person A+B
Just spend 3 dice starting Project Y and save the other 2: (1) person C
2 dice into Project X, and the rest into starting Project Z: (2) person D+E
3 dice to ensure finishing Project X, and save the other 2: (1) person F
Save all the dice and spam revisions: (0)
I'll vote in a little bit. Probably.
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Tack

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #624 on: July 24, 2017, 03:07:27 am »

Yeah, that's what I had in mind from what you first said (the link helped).
But yeah, that list could get very large very quickly, especially when we're voting on multiple different projects and revisions to fix similar problems.

For instance, if we're going to be getting the Arbalest, Nuke, then we probably shouldn't bother researching PLACE guns just yet.
Which means we'd have room open for the HEM- but I don't want to vote for it until it has an option for limited upper-atmosphere survivability.

The way I figure, if we make sure that every design can be used on a boat or in the spire, we can avoid completely backsliding in both areas whilst we deal with the Spire hazards (concerns which won't yet bother our competition at all.)
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #625 on: July 24, 2017, 03:49:26 am »

What's wrong with going for both? If we're only using a prototype PLACE, we should be able to also afford a squad or two of arbalests. I mean, let's be honest, it's not like either is going to completely solve the giant spider problem. So we wouldn't be wasting resources.

Adding an oxygen supply to the HEM would make it substantially more complicated. I mean, how would it work? Tanks of compressed air?
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Tack

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #626 on: July 24, 2017, 04:02:01 am »

I will say we should start the design on masks, but remember we need oxygen for operating at flight ceiling so if you could also incorporate an air-bladder or something then that would give us at least something spire-capable and ship-capable.
Bladder. Leather probably.
Early stuff but at least it's vattable.
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Jilladilla

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #627 on: July 24, 2017, 04:15:32 am »

Guys, remember what I said, Revisions have diminishing returns, and we already dumped one revision into boosting the Suppressors power. I highly doubt it will be able to be boosted above being able to inflict minimal damage to the giant spiders, even with a 6.

We're going to need a new design if we want a proper anti-giant monster spider crossbow, the Suppressor just wasn't built to handle that sort of threat.
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Tack

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #628 on: July 24, 2017, 04:34:52 am »

We don't need an increase in efficacy though, just a change in role.
I doubt the diminishing returns are going to hurt us too much.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #629 on: July 24, 2017, 04:44:08 am »

An air bladder could only hold, like, a minute or two worth of air. I mean, I guess that's better than nothing, and it wouldn't be too hard. Hmm :/

Regarding revisions, yes, but on the other hand, is a new crossbow really a design? And, like, the revision we put into boosting power was intended to maintain automatic fire. If we cut that completely, we should be able to get a lot more power (using a cranequin or similar to draw).
Maybe you're right. But I feel like I'd rather spend one die on a revision than 4+ on a design.
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