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[Nirur Torir]

Currently crossbow revision votes are split 2:2

Two for more power and removing the optional auto fire and already removable magazine, and two for boosting power and cocking speed but otherwise not messing with the basic design.

We should probably do something to make sure the GM doesn't have to flip a coin...

Thank you for summarizing the pages of debate over basic crossbow design. Since you were the one to do so, I'll throw my vote into that one, which you obviously prefer.

[milo christiansen]

Thank you, I tried not to show too much bias

Edit: we are now 10 pages ahead of the other side! Wow. Hopefully next turn will be less involved, since I think everyone more or less agrees we are doing some kind of medium-small hull?

[Madman198237]

That was "not too much"?

You ignored the facts that we can develop more power, more accuracy, more control, and more effect in the long-range environment we're looking at taking as "remove optional crap"?

Your method is "What we already tried. Except more of what caused the issues, and less of the effective parts." You are going to increase the draw weight, which makes aiming even more unstable. You're going to increase loading speed, even though loading speed isn't an issue when you can't even attempt to hit things.

I'm not going to vote for it. I think it's not the weapon we need right now. I would ask, however, that you add a trigger system to the revision. Having the already-existing trigger system hold the string before firing gives so much more accuracy than what we have, simply because you work the action, aim and fire, and then work the action again. Much faster than a regular crossbow, yet more accurate than the repeater we have now.

[Nirur Torir]

I'm just voting yes on "temporary infantry weapon."

[milo christiansen]

As for the trigger system:

IT. ALREADY. DOES. EVERYTHING. YOU. WANT.

All you need to do is pull a pin to disengage the trip that the cocking lever hits.

[Draignean]

Since Nirur is tipping the vote towards Milos revision, I'll lock it soon unless things change.

[Madman198237]

No. It needs to be "every single shot" or it won't work. There should be no "Burn all your bolts in a senseless volley that damages the walls and your fingers more than the enemy".

There is literally no reason not to include a trigger system. One of the soldier's hands is already somewhere on the stock, so if for some reason you're worried only about fire rate,  (I'm assuming that we've not produced some sort of absurd baby crossbow with no punch behind it) it won't really matter, just have a trigger within reach of a forward grip and use a string or something instead of automatically having the lever trip it.

[milo christiansen]

Look. This is how the trigger works right now.

Pushing the cocking lever forward courses it to catch the slider connected to the string. Pulling the lever back causes the slider to get trapped in the rearward position, and disengage the lever. Moving the lever back a tiny bit more causes a pin stuck trough the lever to hit a catch that is part of the trigger, thus releasing the slider.

With the pin removed the cocking lever does not hit the trip, thus the string is held back until the (otherwise unused) manual trigger is activated.

The system was specified (in much more general terms) as part of the original design. That design specifically mentioned a dual-mode manual/auto trigger.

In auto fire mode you can't really pull the lever back enough to cock, but not fire, as when the weight comes off the lever it tends to slam again its stops...

[Madman198237]

"Accuracy at the substantial range in automatic mode is impossible due the 25 pound trigger draw, and the single shot mode is vastly underpowered even when compared to a flintlock pistol."

"The cocking lever is designed so that pushing it forward catches the string, and pulling it back draws the string back, then releases it."

This is not specifically mentioned anywhere, and so we appear not to have it.

[milo christiansen]

I'm not going to scroll back for the original design proposal, but it called for a dual mode manual/auto firing system.

Actually I will, here have a quote:

By pulling a few pins the magazine may be removed, and the lever inhibited from tripping the string release. This allows the crossbow to be fired in a single shot mode for more accuracy.

[Madman198237]

Yes. In a specific mode. Meaning that any soldiers that want to use the automatic system AND a trigger to gain accuracy and firerate can't.

[milo christiansen]

How hard is it to pull a pin? Generally you want auto mode for CQB and manual mode for longer range. In both cases you have time to remove or install the trip pin and magazine.

You can even have a hybrid by pulling the trip pin but leaving the magazine on...

[Jilladilla]

Milo, we rolled a Three on Efficacy and a TWO on bugs, assume that the description that Draignean gave us is what we get, NOT what the original proposal shot for.

And besides, the full auto-mode is useless at anything beyond point blank, and improving the power of the bow isn't going to help that issue.
We aren't likely to get what we were originally aiming for unless we get a really good roll or spend another revision.
Focusing on power and accuracy, even if we must ditch the auto-fire, would at least get us a usable normal crossbow. We can always spend that 2nd revision later to make an auto-fire variant or just to make our original vision a reality

[milo christiansen]

Actually if you read the GM description it mentions the single fire mode. Mostly to say it is still weak, but it is mentioned.

[Draignean]

Suppressor, Improved Lever and Increased Draw Weight
[2]

The various improvements implemented on the suppressor meet with... mixed success. Decreasing cocking lever's pull rate is down by increase the mechanical leverage. However, the length of the lever is a constant hindrance. Moving it further below the center-line of the Suppressor necessitates increasingly heavy mechanical assembles to get the applied force straight back on the string. Still, revisions to the design are made, and it makes the it a little easier on the user to aim.

Until the draw weight is also increased. Increasing the draw weight brings all the old problems with the lever pull jerking accuracy. The increased draw weight gives the weapon better range and stopping power -both lacking from the original design-, but at a significant cost to accuracy without either using massed-fire tactics or waiting until the enemy is at point blank range. In theory, the lever has two stages, one which pulls the string back, and a small additional amount of travel that fires the bolt. However, this has never been successfully used even in a mock combat situation. In practice the ~40 pound pull weight of the lever means that, when the soldier gets the lever to the point where the crossbow is cocked and the weight comes of, the sudden change in resistance immediately sends the lever down into the region that instantly fires the bolt. Due to this, in order to travel with a bolt loaded, infantry have to disengage the automatic pin, cock crossbow, and reengage the pin. Soldiers have nicknamed the Suppressor the Wrist Breaker for the demanding physical labor of pumping the suppressor lever during barrage fire.

When in single fire, the Suppressor functions as an undemanding light crossbow, essentially with a goat's foot reload system.
When in automatic, the Suppressor is abysmally inaccurate, but at least has as much stopping power as a cutlass at the same range.

It is the beginning of 352 AR. All is well, and there is nothing exceptional to report.

Spire Wreth's production stands at,

11/y Crystal, 21/55 Banked
8/y Ore, 18/40 banked
18/y Wood, 54/90 banked
7/y Silk, 21/35 banked

It is the beginning of the Design Phase and Project Maintenance Phase. You have 5 Dice to spend.

Spoiler: Projects (click to show/hide)

Itshana Crystal Refinement: 12/15 | 4 Crystal + 2 of Ore OR Crystal | Rushed 0 Times | 12 Crystal, 6 Ore Invested
Suppressor MK1 Repeating Crossbow: 6/12 | 1 Wood | Rushed 0 Times | Nothing Invested