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Author Topic: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth  (Read 159628 times)

milo christiansen

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1965 on: October 15, 2017, 01:27:32 am »

There is a vast difference between putting guards on the flanks to stop suprise attacks and magically improving marksmanship.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1966 on: October 15, 2017, 01:30:54 am »

Sure.

One is a correct representation of the tactic, the other a dishonest and irrelevant strawman.
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milo christiansen

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1967 on: October 15, 2017, 01:36:33 am »

So how is your tactic suposed to work then? It is literally CCC with some fluff about "pinning down for heavier forces", which frankly is redundant.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1968 on: October 15, 2017, 01:49:06 am »

By that very same logic,AGILE is literally the same old tactic except with some fluff about not getting shot.

The thing you dismiss as fluff happens to be the tactic. Of course, if you choose to ignore the written tactic like that, you can imagine anything about it. However, that means that you're also no longer dealing with reality.

The tactic is a doctrinal shift whereby our lighter units no longer attempt to kill targets they can't kill, but instead try to disrupt their operations so that our heavy units can do the job. This is not redundant, remember our forces have a significant idiot ball.
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milo christiansen

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1969 on: October 15, 2017, 01:55:04 am »

You still haven't explained how you plan to "pin down" foces that charged through exactly the same kind of fire previously.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1970 on: October 15, 2017, 03:19:52 am »

It's not the exact same kind of fire.  If it was, it wouldn't be a new tactic.

I mean, by your logic, none of our tactics can make a difference. They all use the same guns, units and other weapons. Everything would be "the same kind of fire".

Anyway, I'm getting tired of this. You're not open to any kind of reasonable debate or logic, so I'm just going to wait till Draignean rolls the turn.

Edit : Going for 1 final explanation

Situation 4 enemy soldiers attack our base. 1 Crossbowmen defends.

Normal situation :

Round 1 : Enemy units 1,2,3,4 move forward. Crossbowman fires and hits unit 1. Unit 1 disabled but not dead
Round 2 : Enemy units 2,3,4 move forwards. Crossbowman fires and hits unit 1. Unit 1 still not dead
Round 3 : Enemy units 2,3,4 move forwards. Crossbowman fires and hits unit 1. Unit 1 still not dead
Round 4 : Enemy units 2,3,4 move forwards. Crossbowman fires and hits unit 1. Unit 1 now dead
Round 5 : Enemy units 2,3,4 move forwards. Crossbowman fires and hits unit 2. Unit 2 disabled but not dead
And so on

Pin down

Round 1 : Enemy units 1,2,3,4 move forward. Crossbowman fires and hits unit 1. Unit 1 disabled but not dead
Round 2 : Enemy units 2,3,4 move forwards. Crossbowman fires and hits unit 2. Unit 1,2 disabled but not dead
Round 3 : Enemy units 3,4 move forwards. Crossbowman fires and hits unit 3. Unit 1,2,3 disabled but not dead
Round 4 : Enemy units 4 move forwards. Crossbowman fires and hits unit 4. Unit 2,3,4 disabled. Unit 1 recovers.

Pin down changes the behaviour of our forces from trying to kill to trying to disable. The above example is but one of the ways that could show up mechanically. Heavier units will solve the lethality issue that stems from that by trying to kill the enemy.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 03:34:00 am by 10ebbor10 »
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1971 on: October 15, 2017, 08:24:28 pm »

Pin Down
Efficacy: 5

When firing at Kasgyrites in cover, the current combat doctrine is rather unchanged: shoot at them repeatedly. Keeping them pinned is no easier than it was before: if the range is close enough for the pincushion or the gauntlet to be accurate, our men have the advantage in volume of fire. If it isn't then their crossbow likely has the advantage in range and accuracy. However, where the tactic shines is one the defensive. The only heavy unit encountered thus far has been there armored grenadier, which resists center-of-mass shots from all weapons aside from the PLACE. However, by adjusting our men's aim to about leg level, we're able to inflict reliable casualties against the convicts used in trial runs. Even though crossbow bolts and gauntlet blasts are less-lethal in that region, such impacts are crippling- at least when using venom bolts.

In essence, our troops will not have much improved suppressing fire when on the offensive (not until they have weaponry that can at least work at a comparable range) but should be more able to hold defensive lines a bit more easily by virtue of shooting to maim.

The only bit of confusion is what constitutes a 'heavy' or a 'light' weapon. The PLACE is definitely a heavy weapon, and the pincushion is definitely a light weapon, but everything else is a wee bit hazy- and seems to fall more on the spectrum of 'light' than not. Until a better specification is given (you may do this freely) everything but the PLACE is classified as 'light'.



It is now the production, deployment, and tactics phase.

Spire Wreth's production stands at
13/y Crystal, 22/65 Banked
17/y Ore, 25/85 banked
19/y Wood, 70/95 banked
10/y Silk, 37/50 banked

Spoiler: Projects (click to show/hide)



Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Ships (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Infantry (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Misc. Goods (click to show/hide)


Current Technology

Spoiler: Tech (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Tactics (click to show/hide)

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1972 on: October 16, 2017, 01:46:12 am »

Here's the question- Could we field an engineer team and PLACE teams with BLOCK, and then the standard troops with 'Pin Down'?
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10ebbor10

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1973 on: October 16, 2017, 03:47:54 am »

Engineer team?
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Tack

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1974 on: October 16, 2017, 08:10:40 am »

When Block was first implemented, I recall seeing somethinga bout it. Can't remember specifics, too tired to try and find them.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1975 on: October 16, 2017, 08:13:16 am »

Quote
The BLOCK system, despite reading like an engineer's excuse for having a bender and coming up with a project report while hung-over with three hours left on his deadline, is actually quite effective. Basically, it gives a fireteam a couple hundred pounds of wood, mallets, and enough nails to build a small house. It also includes a brief primer on how to hit said nails with the hammer in order to stick boards together. It's pretty effective, though very heavy when carried by a single fireteam, and still slightly burdensome when spread out to a squad.

There's also a couple snide remarks about how it might be better to just send the engineers into battle, instead of giving the tools to soldiers, but whoever heard of such a ridiculous thing as combat engineers?
Pretty sure that's the GM hinting at something we can develop in the future, not something we have.
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Tack

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1976 on: October 16, 2017, 03:50:50 pm »

Ah, okay thanks
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Jilladilla

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1977 on: October 17, 2017, 10:10:29 am »

Alright! Let's start planning:

Production Plan A (Maximal Firepower + BLOCKs we can field while rushing a 'bare bones' Windrider next turn)
3 squads of gauntlets (12 c, 12 o)
4 squads of pincushions (48w)
3 sets of Envenomed Bolts (6w, 3s)     (Remember we have a set in storage)
3 BLOCKs (12w)
4 Vests (4s)
Total Costs: 12c, 12o, 66w, 7s


Production Plan B (Can build that rushed Windrider with a lot more IS trims with this plan, but slightly worse equipment)
2 squads of gauntlets, 2 fireteams (10c, 10o)
4 squads of pincushions, 2 fireteams (54w)
4 sets of envenomed bolts (8w, 4s)
2 BLOCKs (8w)
4 Vests (4s)
Total Costs: 10c, 10o, 70w, 8s


Marine Plan Alpha-1 (Intended to be paired with Prod. Plan A)
7 squads: Assault Squads A, B, C; Defense Squads D, E, F; and then Squad G
Assault Squads: Gauntlets + MOVE-PLACE + Commander Vest. CCC tactics
Defense Squads: Pincushions, Envenomed Bolts and a BLOCK and Commander Vest. Squad D has the last MOVE-PLACE. Anti-Flanking tactics
Squad G: Pincushions, Envenomed Bolts, and a Commander Vest. CCC tactics


Marine Plan Beta-1 (Intended to be paired with Prod. Plan B)
7 squads: Assault Squads A, B, C; Defense Squads D, E; and then Squads F and G
Assault Squads A + B: Gauntlets, MOVE-PLACE, Commander Vest. CCC tactics
Assault Squad C: 50/50 split between Gauntlets and Pincushions (w/Envenomed Bolts), MOVE-PLACE and Commander Vest. CCC tactics
Defense Squads: Pincushions, Envenomed Bolts and a BLOCK and Commander Vest. Anti-Flanking tactics
Squad F: Pincushions, Envenomed Bolts, the last MOVE-PLACE, and a Commander Vest. Anti-Flanking tactics
Squad G: Pincushions, Envenomed Bolts, and a Commander Vest. CCC tactics
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 12:09:56 pm by Jilladilla »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1978 on: October 17, 2017, 11:18:23 am »

Any reason you want to use CCC rather than PIN DOWN?
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Jilladilla

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Wreth
« Reply #1979 on: October 17, 2017, 11:27:13 am »

Any reason you want to use CCC rather than PIN DOWN?
Hmm? Oh. Well, considering they outrange us it wouldn't do much if they use their shoot and run tactic...

But I suppose it might fare better? I'm not sure really. Still; here's alternatives with PIN DOWN replacing CCC:


Marine Plan Alpha-2 (Intended to be paired with Prod. Plan A)
7 squads: Assault Squads A, B, C; Defense Squads D, E, F; and then Squad G
Assault Squads: Gauntlets + MOVE-PLACE + Commander Vest. PIN DOWN tactics
Defense Squads: Pincushions, Envenomed Bolts and a BLOCK and Commander Vest. Squad D has the last MOVE-PLACE. Anti-Flanking tactics
Squad G: Pincushions, Envenomed Bolts, and a Commander Vest. PIN DOWN tactics


Marine Plan Beta-2 (Intended to be paired with Prod. Plan B)
7 squads: Assault Squads A, B, C; Defense Squads D, E; and then Squads F and G
Assault Squads A + B: Gauntlets, MOVE-PLACE, Commander Vest. PIN DOWN tactics
Assault Squad C: 50/50 split between Gauntlets and Pincushions (w/Envenomed Bolts), MOVE-PLACE and Commander Vest. PIN DOWN tactics
Defense Squads: Pincushions, Envenomed Bolts and a BLOCK and Commander Vest. Anti-Flanking tactics
Squad F: Pincushions, Envenomed Bolts, the last MOVE-PLACE and a Commander Vest. Anti-Flanking tactics
Squad G: Pincushions, Envenomed Bolts, and a Commander Vest. PIN DOWN tactics
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 12:10:52 pm by Jilladilla »
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