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Author Topic: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr  (Read 153243 times)

helmacon

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2340 on: May 03, 2018, 04:26:30 pm »


Quote from: Revision Votes (5 dice)
Medium Docks Improvements: (6) Rockeater, Jerick, Kashyyk, Doomblade, Wizgrot, SamSpeeds
Queen's Loyal Militia recruitment and organization: (1), Helmacon
Guerrilla Tactics: (3) Doomblade, SamSpeeds, NAV
Makeshift Weapon Crafting: (1), helmacon
Camouflaged Uniforms: (6) NAV, helmacon, Jerick, Wizgrot, Doomblade, SamSpeeds
preliminary research on sympathetic crystal connections: (5) Helmacon , Rockeater, Jerick, Doomblade, Wizgrot
Militia Recruitment and Armament: (5) NAV, Rockeater, Wizgrot, Jerick, SamSpeeds

Save 1 die: (7) NAV, Rockeater, Jerick, Kashyyk, Wizgrot, Doomblade, SamSpeeds
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dgr11897

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2341 on: May 03, 2018, 09:06:22 pm »

I just had an idea that could actually work
Quote from: Improvised fuel air bomb
A simple and insidious weapon these bombs consist of a container of flour, high proof alcohol, lamp oil, or aluminum dust, and a container with an explosive device (aether grenade or gunpowder charge) placed within the container of the dust or liquid. When detonated the first explosion causes the substance in the outer container to be distributed out into the atmosphere, then when combined with the atmosphere the fine grain material ignites in a massive explosion that consumes the oxygen in the air and spreads through the tunnels. It is particularly effective with liquids because they spray out in tiny droplets that act like bullets shredding armor before lighting off. With additional bags/containers of the flammable dust/liquid of choice one can make a chain reaction to devastating effect. The bombs kill in three ways, first is the shock-wave and associated shrapnel, then is the fireball, finally even if they survive all of that they likely die of oxygen deprivation because the bombs use the oxygen in the atmosphere as their oxidizer and the deeper tunnels of the spires are likely not that well ventilated.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 09:08:31 pm by dgr11897 »
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NAV

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2342 on: May 03, 2018, 09:14:26 pm »

That is definitely a design. We don't even have aluminum yet, so how do we get aluminum powder? And we have very little non-crystal explosive knowledge, the best we could manage on a revision is a barrel of black powder with a fuse in it.
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dgr11897

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2343 on: May 03, 2018, 09:18:03 pm »

We don't have to use aluminum dust, flour or alcohol would work, as would a grenade as the explosive device, plus it is not that complicated, the basic idea is to take a bag of flour or a cask of high proof alcohol and stick a box with a grenade inside.
edit: Also i just had an idea for something to counter their switch to guns,
Shroud redesign project
Shrouds have always been an amazing asset for our cause, however our enemies recent switch to black powder weaponry has rendered them useless in ground battles, and if our enemy develops a black power weapon for air battles then they will quickly become irrelevant, so it seems a redesign is in order. In order to create something to block physical projectiles as well as aetheric blasts we will likely have to draw on our experience with weapons crystals to develop a shroud that has some of the properties of a blast from an aetheric weapon to blow their bullets out of the air, or perhaps some ability similar to lift or trim crystals that applies force to any enemy bolts attempting to pass through. In order to compromise for the likely increase in power draw these new shrouds will probably be directional, a concentrated shield of energy we can re-position rather than the passive armor of current shrouds.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 10:00:10 pm by dgr11897 »
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helmacon

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2344 on: May 03, 2018, 11:03:17 pm »

We don't have to use aluminum dust, flour or alcohol would work, as would a grenade as the explosive device, plus it is not that complicated, the basic idea is to take a bag of flour or a cask of high proof alcohol and stick a box with a grenade inside.
edit: Also i just had an idea for something to counter their switch to guns,
Shroud redesign project
Shrouds have always been an amazing asset for our cause, however our enemies recent switch to black powder weaponry has rendered them useless in ground battles, and if our enemy develops a black power weapon for air battles then they will quickly become irrelevant, so it seems a redesign is in order. In order to create something to block physical projectiles as well as aetheric blasts we will likely have to draw on our experience with weapons crystals to develop a shroud that has some of the properties of a blast from an aetheric weapon to blow their bullets out of the air, or perhaps some ability similar to lift or trim crystals that applies force to any enemy bolts attempting to pass through. In order to compromise for the likely increase in power draw these new shrouds will probably be directional, a concentrated shield of energy we can re-position rather than the passive armor of current shrouds.

They have already developed a conventional cannon and we already have answered it. We made bronze-wood, and we keep armor on our ships.
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dgr11897

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2345 on: May 03, 2018, 11:28:36 pm »

They have already developed a conventional cannon and we already have answered it. We made bronze-wood, and we keep armor on our ships.
I still think that upgrading our shrouds would be a good idea, shrouds can regenerate, our armor cannot currently, we also don't have any shortage of crystals, so upgrading shrouds to be stronger for their size, smaller, directional, and/or able to block physical projectiles would be of great benefit, especially considering our mobile shields have shrouds that are currently rendered useless due to the enemy using mostly projectiles. Plus our shrouds being tougher would make our ships harder to kill, and the longer a ship is around the more fire it can send the enemies way. The project would also probably increase our knowledge of how crystals work, letting us do more advanced stuff with them.
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helmacon

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2346 on: May 03, 2018, 11:55:16 pm »

They have already developed a conventional cannon and we already have answered it. We made bronze-wood, and we keep armor on our ships.
I still think that upgrading our shrouds would be a good idea, shrouds can regenerate, our armor cannot currently, we also don't have any shortage of crystals, so upgrading shrouds to be stronger for their size, smaller, directional, and/or able to block physical projectiles would be of great benefit, especially considering our mobile shields have shrouds that are currently rendered useless due to the enemy using mostly projectiles. Plus our shrouds being tougher would make our ships harder to kill, and the longer a ship is around the more fire it can send the enemies way. The project would also probably increase our knowledge of how crystals work, letting us do more advanced stuff with them.

Shrouds don't actually regenerate at the moment. That's one of the research projects we have planned for the near future. Currently, a shroud has a set strength. Concentrated fire can create a hole that will take several seconds to fill, but it is just the remaining shroud strength spreading out over the full area again. Once a shroud collapses, the crystal core must be brought all the way down to 0 power and back again to create a new shroud.
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dgr11897

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2347 on: May 04, 2018, 12:04:30 am »

Shrouds don't actually regenerate at the moment. That's one of the research projects we have planned for the near future. Currently, a shroud has a set strength. Concentrated fire can create a hole that will take several seconds to fill, but it is just the remaining shroud strength spreading out over the full area again. Once a shroud collapses, the crystal core must be brought all the way down to 0 power and back again to create a new shroud.
Oh... well, That info makes an idea I posted earlier for compound shrouds actually decent. Reason being that since the compound shroud has a bunch of crystals projecting their shroud over a smaller area they would probably be mildly stronger, and since there would be several other layers of shroud sections, once any of the outer sections go down we can bring their crystals down and back up again, and once that happens cycle the ones that took damage while the outer layer was gone, going from innermost layer to the outermost. So i retract my previous idea, and put compound shrouds up as an idea again.
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helmacon

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2348 on: May 04, 2018, 01:01:10 am »

Shrouds don't actually regenerate at the moment. That's one of the research projects we have planned for the near future. Currently, a shroud has a set strength. Concentrated fire can create a hole that will take several seconds to fill, but it is just the remaining shroud strength spreading out over the full area again. Once a shroud collapses, the crystal core must be brought all the way down to 0 power and back again to create a new shroud.
Oh... well, That info makes an idea I posted earlier for compound shrouds actually decent. Reason being that since the compound shroud has a bunch of crystals projecting their shroud over a smaller area they would probably be mildly stronger, and since there would be several other layers of shroud sections, once any of the outer sections go down we can bring their crystals down and back up again, and once that happens cycle the ones that took damage while the outer layer was gone, going from innermost layer to the outermost. So i retract my previous idea, and put compound shrouds up as an idea again.

except shroud strength to Crystal size is actually pretty significant scaling. Our skiff shrouds barely take a hit or 2 before collapsing, while our viper shrouds can take dozens of hits. Your shroud layers would likely collapse under a single hit, or maybe 2, so to equal the strength of a med shroud would take dozens of these crystals, and considering the current price of a small core that makes them very expensive. Additionally, cycling a cores power is a lengthy process, and would require it to be shut off from all connected units. This means we would either need a second dedicated network for your shroud crystals so we don't lose all maneuvering and guns while cycling, or a truly staggering amount of engineering control and design. And that network would be separate for each Crystal included. All that so we can recharge a few hitd worth of shroud over about 10 min.

It would be useful, but imo nowhere near useful enough to justify the cost of resources and design.

By the time we could design and implement that, we could instead take traditional shrouds into something much more capable. No need to reinvent the wheel.
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2349 on: May 04, 2018, 11:24:13 am »


Medium Docks Improvement
Efficacy: 1
There's an interest, and rather difficult power dynamic with regard to the docker guilds, the engineers, and the words of the Princess. The Dockers who'd initially planned to bleed the docks project to fill their own coffers now toe the line the princess set in ink as if their lives depended on it, but the tweaks the engineers suggest disturb that line. Some dockers seek to take advantage of the changes, others reject them until they can get written approval from the princess, other still object that the engineers are interfering wantonly in what is now an imperial process.

All in all, despite the tweaks being proposed having a reasonable basis and likely able to offer improvements, lacking knowledge of the political climate means that the suggestions fall on deaf ears. However, with the knowledge gained, further improvements should be less likely to fail as completely.

Camouflaged Uniforms
Efficacy: 6
In a war, sacrifices must be made. Perhaps it was our arrogance that allowed the citizens of Blackstone to be attacked, perhaps it was our pride that allowed the Wrethan fleet to close its jaws around our aerosphere, perhaps it was our vainglorious assurance in past glories that has damned our future- but that ends now. The newly designed uniforms are of plain and serviceable cut, of color and pattern designed specifically to bend into the rock and moss of the deep cavern, with short and mottled cloaks given a brighter underside that are designed to be inverted for brighter camo or unclipped and used as a cover for equipment. New armors are outfitted with muffling strips of cloth, and tar is smeared over bronze to blacken its gleam.

Yet the rationale for these changes is taken to such heart that soldiers currently deployed do their best to immediately alter their attire- rubbing once bright clothing with ashwater and rubbing dirt and clay across weapons and skin. For them, this is not so much a change in tactic, as it is a collective mourning for the lives that, as marines, they failed to save. 

Camouflaged Uniforms: Going forward, all military equipment will have basic camouflage applied. Though basic, this camouflage represents an excellent usage of pigments, mottling, and usage of starches to mimic the colors of caves while breaking up the soldier's shape and outline. Even soldiers deployed before this technology was introduced will do their best to apply field camouflage to their equipment.

Preliminary Research on Sympathetic Crystal Connections
Efficacy: 6
The Crystal Reflection effect, first observed and logged as irregularity on the grandmother spark during initial testing, has now been experimentally verified- if at a very small scale. The success is small, with two heavily modified core crystals the size of a thumbnail able to mimic electrical charges across a distance of several hundred meters, but it is a definite proof of concept. While many more issues could be encountered going forward, the crystallographers forecast the following complications with a large scale project:

1. Charge transfer, for the moment, appears to have a limited range with hard falloff.
2. The equipment needed to perform the cutting, as well as the purity of the experimental crystals, will incur significant costs during research.
3. Estimates are based on the creation of a new type of sympathetic crystal, attempting to incorporate reflection into existing crystals will likely prove more difficult.

That in mind, however, engineers expect that the technology will likely be feasible with 17 Quantified Engineering Days (QEDs) of effort.

Militia Recruitment and Armament
Efficacy: 1
Attempting to get civilians to sharpen shovels and join the military does not go well. It does not go well at all. In the initial testing group, the proclamation and instructions elicited a sense of panic- much like an airship captain announcing that everything was fine, the Webbing was in no way on fire, and, just as a matter of idle curiousity, asking if anyone knew how to fly an airship. In the interest of not turning the Blackstone in a rioting meat-grinder of warring militia groups with no clear leadership or enforced hierarchy, the document is quietly buried until it can be revised into a workable state.



Spire Kasgyre's Production stands at
12(+12)/y Crystal, 73/125 Banked
12(+2)/y Ore, 54/95 banked
17/y Wood, 64/95 banked
10/y Silk, 49/55 banked

It is now the production, deployment, and tactics phase.

Spoiler: Imperial Topaz (click to show/hide)



Spoiler: Projects (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Ships (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Goods Stockpile (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Infantry (click to show/hide)



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NAV

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2350 on: May 04, 2018, 11:30:59 am »

Looking through the thread and the design document, I found 4 revisions that were never added to the design document. Grenade Slings, Trim Turret Gearing, Viper Pattern, and Ship Camouflage Paint. These are all fairly important revisions.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I also noticed a couple strange cost discrepancies:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2351 on: May 04, 2018, 11:42:30 am »

Missing techs added, and the issue with the pattern B is that it was created before the Crystal Gardens did cost leveling for Crystal. As for silk vests, just assume that the current operation is four cells of four,  and one cell contains both the squad officer and a fireteam officer.
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Wizgrot

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2352 on: May 04, 2018, 04:15:09 pm »

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JxU-2UVGozdfpRVUcfP1izgDuLffRF7RYO7XpEhVsQs/edit

Okay, look at it and vote for it. I like it, but I would suggest to delay the sending of the civilian fleet for a turn, so we can use the window of opportunity to sneak in more troops

Quote
Treaty
(1) Yes: Wizgrot
(0) No:

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2353 on: May 04, 2018, 04:16:55 pm »

We already have a damn good way to sneak in troops, its called improved blockade running and skypaint. I vote no.

Quote
Treaty
(1) Yes: Wizgrot
(1) No: NAV
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dgr11897

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #2354 on: May 04, 2018, 04:21:06 pm »

The treaty sounds like a great idea, I for one vote that we present it to the wreth.
But i would also argue that it should be used to ban certain types of weapons, I.E. spider based weapons of any kind, weapons which cause undue harm to civilians, weapons that kill primarily through suffocation or poisoning/infection, and weapons that utilize surface creatures to attack a spire. Basically turning into the geneva convention
Quote
Treaty
(2) Yes: Dgr11897 Wizgrot
(1) No: NAV
Just a thought but what about designing a system to let our ships survive the everstorm, who knows maybe there is some sort of long lost spire in there, and we can use it as a backroute to attack their home spires or supply lines.
Also for a future design what about combining core and weapon crystals again but this time focusing on making a shroud that acts like a bolt from an aether gun when struck, but is a passive defense field like a shroud. Basically an anti projectile shroud that can also act like a discount warhammer 40k power field to augment mech fists melee weapons to be more effective.
Another thought is just an understanding shrouds/the aether, just because we probably have a slight advantage on the crystal side of things, and doing a project to understand how they work would be a worthwhile thing to do.
Finally two things
One, we should look into fusing Cat DNA with our soldiers, or making clones. (the reason I say this is because it was done in the cinder spires Canon look up the warrior born in the wiki)
and two, what if we took the best of the best of our troops and then put them through a rigorous training regiment involving spending a week at the base of the spire, then told our engineers to outfit them with the best gear we have available, and then give them their own ship and put them under the command of our best officers, basically our own version of the navy seals, with a bit of sci-fi supersoldier thrown in.
Another thought I had while writing this is recruiting the cats to our cause (in the world of cinder spires cats are intelligent, and larger than normal), or researching crystal intelligence (at the end of the book it is revealed that core crystals are, or can become, sentient).
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 04:24:34 pm by dgr11897 »
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