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Author Topic: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr  (Read 150253 times)

Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2017, 02:33:39 pm »

Next question, could we use both dice on a single revision? On two different revisions?

Yes.

EDIT: Unless something comes up, improved cooling will be locked in soon (tm).
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 03:26:47 pm by Draignean »
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2017, 03:51:43 pm »

Light Aetheric Cannon- Improved Cooling
Efficacy: 6

There are a lot of things that could have gone very badly with a quick attempt to attach a metal canister of water to a massive heat source. Thankfully, none of those very bad things did happen. Instead of a heavy copper block loaded into the cannon as a heat sink, a considerably lighter (about a sixth the weight) copper canister of water is loaded into the same slot. Additionally, heavy copper pipes filled with water have been mounted along the barrel. Although engineers were unable to find a way to link the pipes and the main box, they did discover that pre-filling the pipes with water and drilling holes in the far end enabled the cannon to vent a great deal of barrel heat as steam. The pipes can't be refilled while the cannon is still hot, but they do allow for a substantial increase in the amount of fire that can be laid down near the beginning of the engagement.  Essentially, instead of being able to make 10 shots over the course of five minutes, the light cannon can make 10 shots in the first minute, and then resume a normal firing pattern- with a reduced rate of deck fires.  Gunners have taken to referring the refitted cannons as 'Kettle Guns' on account of the whistle of steam escaping the barrel pipes on initial volleys.

The ore cost of making a block of solid copper is offset by the increased manufacturing effort needed to construct the piping and tanks. High command is quite interested in the idea of a cannon designed around a dedicated hydraulic cooling system.


It is the beginning of 351 AR. All is well, and there is nothing exceptional to report.

Spire Kasgyre's production stands at,

11/y Crystal, 22/55 Banked
10/y Ore, 20/50 banked
11/y Wood, 22/55 banked
9/y Silk, 18/45 banked

It is the beginning of the Design Phase and Project Maintenance Phase. You have 6 Dice to spend.

Spoiler: Projects (click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 03:54:22 pm by Draignean »
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Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2017, 04:07:03 pm »

I think we should spend one die (+1 Wood) to progress the Witch-Hunter Crossbow. Probably won't complete this turn, but we're in no rush and we may end up saving a resource.

Next, I propose the following:

Jump Pack
A wood and cloth backpack with a secure body harness, this jump pack comes with a removable core crystal like the one used in the dhingy, plus a dhingy trim crystal. It comes with two wrip cords, one to fire off the initial jump that  launches the wearer upwards and forwards approximately 50m, and the second applies up and reverse thrust so that the user doesn't break their legs on landing. Because the backpack only carries a small amount of webbing to allow passive recharge, the user can expect only one use per engagement. However the ability to launch themselves off of a skip onto a spire, or to quickly relocate within a spire will be an invaluable asset.

Quote from: Votes
Designs
Jump Pack (3 dice + 1 for bugs) : [1]
 Kashyyk

Projects
Witch Hunter Crossbow - 1 die + 1 Wood : [1] Kashyyk
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 04:28:47 pm by Kashyyk »
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helmacon

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2017, 04:34:55 pm »

We have cannons. We have steam. Let's make a steam cannon.
It sounds be awsome. It would bypass shields and shred enemy webbing in one shot!!

Also, why are we in the design phase again already? I'm confused.
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Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2017, 04:37:59 pm »

We've got four turns of preparation before the war starts. It's why I wanted to invest four years of dice into a mega-project.
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NAV

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2017, 04:40:54 pm »

I think we should start the ship right now. Don't have time to write proposal now though.
+1 to continuing crossbow.
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Shadowclaw777

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2017, 04:51:47 pm »

Maybe we can spend that "experimental" ideas on improving on some long-term goals, like an improved ship-yard? All these larger ships we have in mind is going to need investment on our designs. Also a improved transport ships would also be very nice.

Military-Industry Moderate Docks: By the effort of centralizing our industry into expanding our shipyard, we will have the ability to field and develop larger ship-crafts and boats to a larger size. This ambitious design can field up to two production lines and also allow us to build more mightier and bigger boats up to the medium class.

Quote from: Votes
Designs
Jump Pack (3 dice + 1 for bugs) : [1]
 Kashyyk
Military-Industry Moderate Docks: [1] Shadowclaw

Projects
Witch Hunter Crossbow - 1 die + 1 Wood : [2] Kashyyk, Shadowclaw
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Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2017, 06:20:36 pm »

Are you wanting to replicate the production line we've got for the skyskiffs, or make it easier to produce one-off medium ships? Your design isn't overly clear.
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Jerick

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2017, 07:17:49 pm »

Before we even start thinking of big boats we need something that can keep them in the air that isn't power hungry as all hell. So in that vein, I offer:

Tri-Linked Lift Crystals
Three smaller lift crystals linked together for greater power efficiency. This increased efficiency is dependant on the power being fed to the lift crystals being balanced between the three crystals. These crystals help stabilise each other's lift when powered and a tri-linked setup should provide much more lift for each unit of power provided. As an additional side benefit the smaller size should mean less internal flaws so cracking is much less likely.

Quote from: Votes
Designs
Jump Pack (3 dice + 1 for bugs) : [1]
 Kashyyk
Military-Industry Moderate Docks: [1] Shadowclaw
Tri-Linked Lift Crystals (3 dice + 1 for bugs) : [1] Jerick

Projects
Witch Hunter Crossbow - 1 die + 1 Wood: [4] Kashyyk, Shadowclaw, Jerick, Nav
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 07:24:23 pm by Jerick »
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helmacon

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2017, 10:39:07 pm »

Design: Hit and run Tactics
Our Cannons can fire at the rate of 1 shot per 6 seconds for the first minute, but then return to the default 1 per 30 seconds. This is a MASSIVE difference. We would be overwhelming at the beginning of an engagement, but things would even out to a normal fight after that. The best way to use this invention is with hit and run tactics. Show up, focus fire on a few/single targets, destroy it, then leave before it becomes a level playing field, and wait for the cannons to cool before we do it again. This allows our fleets to effectively stand up to Much larger enemy forces, wearing them down and destroying them over the course of several engagements. Additionally, when used with infantry it lets us set up and execute ambushes. When used with multiple ships/fleets it becomes cyclical. We overwhelm a target, pull back, and the next group swoops in to cover/kill their own targets.

Designs that increase ship speed would sync well with these tactics, and this allows us to focus more on firepower than defence. After all, everyone knows that offence is the best defence.

(I'm assuming that tactics work the same as weapons? Our commanders have the pick of all available, and use the best option for the situation? I wouldn't want us to be doing hit and run stuff while trying to blockade or something stupid like that.)
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Shadowclaw777

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2017, 10:40:36 pm »

Are you wanting to replicate the production line we've got for the skyskiffs, or make it easier to produce one-off medium ships? Your design isn't overly clear.
I was hoping for a general expansion on our shipyards, with the primary priority allowing the shipyard to field larger ships more easier and less resource-intensively, with a secondary focus on trying to get a second production line. So essentially focusing on our shipyard being better at deploying and fielding larger ships than we currently have.
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helmacon

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2017, 11:12:24 pm »

Can I get some more detailed information on our ships?

With our copper water heatsink we get 2 shots per minute (10 for the first min). How fast does a cannon with the regular copper heatsink fire?

How many shots can the current shroud take before collapsing?  Edit: found info on this in the starting tech. Nvm. Also, holy crap. Our new cannons are gonna shred their ships.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 12:20:19 am by helmacon »
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2017, 12:54:08 am »

Can I get some more detailed information on our ships?

With our copper water heatsink we get 2 shots per minute (10 for the first min). How fast does a cannon with the regular copper heatsink fire?

How many shots can the current shroud take before collapsing?

A standard Aetheric cannon can fire twice a minute once it's already hot. If fired cold, you can make five shots in the first minute.

Basically your upgrade improved your alpha strike, made interchanging heat-sinks faster since they're much lighter, and reduced the chance of deck fire from gunners mishandling a solid block of very hot copper.

Shrouds vary from ship to ship, due to power constraints. As your Skiff states, it can tank 2-3 shots before the shroud buckles and needs to be reset, but a single aetheric shot will still knock a hole in the shroud. This is difficult to exploit effectively, since skiffs are quite zippy. Your main constraint for speed is air resistance, and so a Skiff can get up to a good ~320kph, though it'll have a devil of a time turning without cracking a crystal when moving at that speed.

Skiff to skiff combat basically involves a lot of target leading, missing, and crossed fingers. 
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helmacon

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2017, 02:08:31 am »

Sorry, I think I did a poor job of communicating my question. I was asking how non initial firing speed with the copper water heat sinks compared to the firing speed of the non upgraded cannons with pure copper heat sinks.

Quote
  Instead of a heavy copper block loaded into the cannon as a heat sink, a considerably lighter (about a sixth the weight) copper canister of water is loaded into the same slot. Additionally, heavy copper pipes filled with water have been mounted along the barrel. 
asking about the first part, not the second part.

Also
Quote
  If fired cold, you can make five shots in the first minute. 
Quote
the light cannon can make 10 shots in the first minute 
Was this an intentional ret con, or a mistake? If it was a mistake, which fire rate is correct?
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires | Spire Kasgyr
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2017, 02:22:14 am »

Quote
  If fired cold, you can make five shots in the first minute. 
Quote
the light cannon can make 10 shots in the first minute 
Was this an intentional ret con, or a mistake? If it was a mistake, which fire rate is correct?

Sorry, I was unclear.  A copper-block cannon fired cold has an alpha-strike capacity of 5, and a sustain of 2 shots per minute. Your kettle guns have an alpha-strike of 10 when fired cold, and a sustain of 2 shots per minute.

The  overall fire rate is mostly similar due to water-copper having a similar heat exchange rate as opposed to copper-copper, but you do have an advantage in how quickly you can exchange the heat-sink. The issue is, after the water tubes around the barrel evaporate, you still risk melting the barrel with sustained fire.

So, firing speed between the two cannon models is (mostly) the same after the water in the barrel mounts boils off, but the kettle cannon has a substantial advantage in the opening engagement, and the ability to swap heat-sinks efficiently and safely gives a slight advantage in the long term. More importantly is that the reduced weight of the heat-sink makes the cannon alot lighter, which lets the gun operator move the cannon more rapidly, which results in faster and easier aiming.

Without the barrel mounts, the addition of the water tank doesn't do too much for you. It reduces the weight of the individual sinks and makes it easier to slot them in and out, but since you'd have to redesign the barrel and sink mechanism in order to allow circulatory flow, it doesn't make too much of a difference in increasing overall fire rate.

It's late (or early), so it's possible that I'm just being dense.

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