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Author Topic: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires  (Read 26059 times)

10ebbor10

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #210 on: August 13, 2017, 07:55:31 am »

How did you make yours so bad?
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #211 on: August 13, 2017, 08:05:37 am »

Really, though, how did you soup up those skiffs so much that they wipe the mezzosphere with us every engagement? My money's on "polish a crystal really hard".
Pure bureaucratic excellence. You wouldn't understand.
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blueturtle1134

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #212 on: August 13, 2017, 09:19:05 am »

*reads combat report*

Shoot... even your shrouds are in triplicate.
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Tack

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #213 on: August 13, 2017, 09:55:16 am »

Yeah, the department of redundancy got to take point on that design.
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Madman198237

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #214 on: August 13, 2017, 12:59:38 pm »

Our shrouds are glorious masterpieces of raw bureaucratic redundancy, powered by the kinetic energy of a hundred thousand Wrethan pens filling out the forms required to destroy hostile vessels in a peacekeeping scenario. The cannons are fueled by the energy radiating from our Declarations of Intent to Rescue Oppressed Kasgyrites From Arachnid Tyranny.
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Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #215 on: August 13, 2017, 02:28:59 pm »

That sounds very... redundant. We just use Aetherblasts to deal with anticonstitutional Wrethi.
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #216 on: August 15, 2017, 12:31:22 pm »


Rule Clarification and Revision 3
aka
Balance: The Fuckening

Clarifications of Topics That Do Not Change Existing Rules

Resources

1. What kind of Wood is Wood, can I improve it?
The 'wood' the spires currently grow in vats can be grown on a fairly broad spectrum of hard and soft woods, but particularly extreme examples (such as balsa or ebony) are currently beyond your reach. You may absolutely spend designs in order to gain new and exotic woods to work with, and revisions can be applied to improve or alter existing woods.  The same idea applies to ore, where designs and revisions can be pushed forward in order to discover new materials and advance existing techniques.

2. Can I make designs to improve production rates?
In a word, yes. Revisions can be done as well, you should have a baseline design if you want more than a pittance.

3. How do resources get transported between spires?
Similar to dinghies, there's a conceptual civilian vessel that is basically a lift crystal, some trims, and the bare minimum of metal and wood needed to hold the thing together. You don't have to worry about building them or outfitting them, but they can be intercepted, and stands about as much chance in a fight as a arthritic golden retriever in an wood chipper that's currently be pushed into a volcano.

Rolling Multiple Dice for Revisions

1. Can I roll multiple dice on revisions?
Yes. I'll take the highest.

2. Can I make two identical revisions?
Yes, but that's just a degenerate case of the above.

3. Can I make two revisions, where one only rolls if the first rolls below a certain amount?
No.

4. Can I make two revisions to solve the same problem in different ways?
Yes, and here's where things get tricky. In this instance, there is a chance that I will refund you one of the dice. IFF you're in a situation where you make to revisions to solve a problem in different ways, and one solution succeeds to the point where it would be absolutely no possible gain from any roll of the second die- I'll give you the die back. However, the solutions to the problem need to be radically different. This caveat is a kindness, and one that I will withdraw if you try to plan around it.

Transports, Dinghies, and Cargo

1. How are dinghies distributed?
Dinghies are attached to transports. In future, all transport ships will have a number of dinghies that they can field, and the basic transport has three dinghies by default.

2. Can I break Dinghies down for resources?
No.

3. Can I upgrade Dinghies?
Yes. However, you'll be paying for the upgraded Dinghies on an individual basis. Still, I'll only make you pay for the upgraded portions, and not the generic dinghy.

4. How much cargo space does, say, a single gauntlet take up?
Okay, this is going to be one of those game abstractions. Any single (small) item, by itself, will take up 1 whole transport unit (TU, hereafter). However, 32 smallish items can be jammed into the same space and it will still take up 1 TU. Smallish is basically any infantry item that doesn't have an explicit size cost, so silk shirts, bronze armor, gauntlets, crossbows, pistols, rifles, etc, are all abstracted to being the same size. You can mix and match items within this space, so it doesn't have to be 32 of the same thing.

5. Can I make revisions/designs to increase how big a TU is?
No. A TU is a unit of measurement, so even if you change the size of the unit, it doesn't change how much stuff you can fit inside. If your cannons are overheating, you can't revise the temperature, not anymore than you can revise the minute to allow more time for your ships. I'm open to revisions for specialized cargo space, TU only available for certain items, but you can't make a revision to make things back more tightly. 32 Silk shirts occupies the same space as 32 Rifles.

Shrouds

1. Do Shrouds Regenerate in Combat?
No, though I understand the confusion. Holes knocked in shrouds will fill in, but that's a matter of high-energy regions filling in depleted regions. However, the amount of energy left in a shroud does not increase naturally while the shroud is raised. When a shroud is buckled, it will not regenerate until completely reset. When a shroud is dropped, but still viable, it will regenerate slowly over time, becoming replete over the course of a day.

2. How long does it take to restore a buckled shroud?
That depends on a lot of things. Under ideal situations, where everything goes perfectly, the core crystal can be brought down to near-zero and reset in about ten minutes. However, this level of efficacy is really only possible in a drydock situation, and captains typically allocate closer to an hour for engineers to complete the task. This operation is delicate, and since the crystal is being brought down very near zero, the energy drain needed to keep the ship floating becomes relatively immense. Disruption to the fragile balance of power there can greatly complicate the process, extending the reset time two or three-fold.

Pulling off a combat reset is a heroic maneuver, more in the realm of romantic fiction than reality.

3. Why don't we run shrouds all the time?
Good question. Two main reasons. First, Damage by attrition. Shrouds don't interact much with the background Aether, but that isn't to say they don't interact at all. Shrouds that are simply left up will gradually thin out over time, as their inability to regenerate while raised means that even the most minimal impacts from an errant high-energy aetheric swell will have an impact via attrition.

Second, core wear. Running a shroud is hard on core crystals. It generates waste heat that can damage the crystal over time and it gradually works snarls in the careful aetheric channels that transform aetheric energy into electricity. For analogy, it's sort of like making a person work at their optimum potential- they can hold it together for a while, but sooner or later everybody starts to tire, and mistakes made when trying to operate at full steam when tired are devastating.

So, together, if you leave a shroud running, you're liable to have a weak shroud and an unstable core crystal when you actually get into a fight.



Changes to Existing Rules or Things I Have Said, But Have Since Reconsidered When Less High
All changes outlined here will take effect starting at the beginning of next year

The One Turn Delay on New Hulls
Hulls will no longer have a one turn delay associated with creating them. They will be instant, same as everything else. HOWEVER, the one turn refit period for ships will now apply to bare hulls. Basically this is about removing an exception that didn't ever need to exist and allowed for bizarre exploits.

Spending Long Term Resources
On Discord, I once said that it might be possible to sacrifice long term resources to improve a production line.  I'm now walking back that statement. A sufficient investment of stockpiled resources might do something, but I'm not going to allow the spending of long term resources. Too dangerous a precedent.



Prior Revisions and Clarifications
The Old Testament

Separation of Draignean Canon and Butcher Canon, via Clarification Cannon

So, I didn't actually expect as many people to have read the books that form the basis of this game's background, and I certainly didn't expect as many people to start reading them and suddenly gain a much fresher knowledge of the source material. The purpose of this clarification update is to address the way in which things have changed, and to elucidate a bit of the meta-physics going on in the background.

Major Differences

Power Generation and Use
The Books
In the books, core crystals take centuries to grow, a century of use to mature, and basically spontaneously generate electrical energy forever via a series "complex pathways needed to route aetheric energy into a rising surplus, converting it into bottled lightning". Now, since lumin crystals (from the books) are described as only getting charged when created, and no one except a bloody wizard can charge them again, it's reasonably safe to assume that core crystals are also charged at creation- and are capable of running for at least four-thousand years while actually strengthening over time.

tl;dr: In the books, a core crystal is a solid state generator with effectively infinite potential.

Webbing, in the books, is charged by the core crystal and then 'catches' aetheric energy in order to pull the ship in a particular direction. This effect is what provides the bulk of a ship's thrust.

Trim and Lift crystals function (I believe) identically to the ones I describe, though mine are more powerful in order to give them the role of primary thrust instead of maneuvering only.

In short, the core powers everything spontaneously, webbing is basically sail for aetheric energy, and trim crystals are weaker but of the same function.

This Game
Now, in this setting, a core crystal by itself is a large and inert chunk of rock. It requires a constant aether charge to keep working, and it works through it quickly. Aetheric energy is conducting into the crystal, the crystal converts aetheric energy into electricity. From there the electricity is routed literally everywhere except to the webbing.

The webbing, in turn, acts as an aetheric energy catch as before, except instead of simply catching it and holding, it's capable of channeling it into a defined flow. This flow can then be routed through a cable of silk and into a core crystal, which can absorb the energy and convert it into electricity.

Without webbing to provide thrust, trim crystals get a bit of a buff so that are no longer just used for secondary maneuvering, but are also the primary providers of acceleration to a current ship.

In short, power flows in through the web from the aether, charges the core, and the core provides energy to the rest of the ship.


Clarification on Aether
So, aether is not terribly well defined in the source material. It's basically a thing that can be shot at people, is used for lights, can be altered by certain crystals, sometimes manipulated by wizards, and turns light into crazy juice. Considering how young your empires are in some ways, a lot of the science is still up to you, but I feel that a few clarifications need to be made about how certain, current, technologies work.

Aether Itself
Aetheric energy is omnipresent. In some places it is weaker, and in some places it is stronger, but there are no places where it is not. If you need to, visualize a thermal image. It is inextricably linked to something in the upper atmosphere, and can form waves, swells, and even apparently meteorological phenomena- such as happens with components of the Everstorm. Much as differing materials have varying abilities to conduct heat, there is varying aetheric conductivity and permittivity between materials. In this, it is typically the reverse of heat. Dense materials, like stone or metal, are typically quite poor at both conducting and holding aetheric energy- which is why levels are fairly low inside of spires. Open air is both an excellent conductor and a reasonable vessel for aetheric energy.

When the intensity gets high enough, all humans can sense aetheric energy, but every person registers the sense directly. Some hear it as a faint ring, others as a prickly heat, and to others its a wash of particular colors. Whatever it is, it's either a sure sign that there's a firefight going on, or that the ambient aetheric energy is reaching a dangerous level.

Aether Silk
Aether silk is unique in that it not only conducts aetheric energy, it attracts it in much the same way a magnet will attract iron filings, and it disperses it over time as kinetic energy. A silk shirt struck by an gauntlet will ripple and wriggle for minutes after being struck, and webbing is designed so that it strains outwards and that a ream will unfurl automatically when exposed to aetheric energy. This action only occurs after the silk has reached a critical balance point of contained energy, which is why new webbing has to be allowed to unfurl fully before being connected back to the core.

If charged faster than it can disperse energy, aether silk will begin to char and will eventually explode into flames. This effect occurs rapidly when struck with high-energy blasts of aether, such as those generated by a gauntlet, and turns the silk into worthless ash.

When connected to a material capable of absorbing aetheric energy, such as a core crystal, webbing will rapidly conduct energy into the crystal. Careful moderation is often needed in order to ensure that webbing is thick enough to not burn itself out under its own collection volume, but also is spliced finely enough that it doesn't overload a core crystal by providing too intense a charge to a single point.

Because of its ability to draw and concentrate Aetheric energy, silk creates local zones of low aetheric energy, which is why it's essential that webbing be held outside a vessel, or at least in a position of airflow. Webbing connected to a core crystal without air movement will steadily deplete the area of energy, resulting in steeply diminished yields over time.

Aetheric Weapons
Aetheric weapon project a very specialized bolt of aetheric energy, which is capable of interacting with the world destructively. The projectile is a spherical clump of 'hard' aether, which doesn't disperse normally, and to which can be imparted speed. This 'hard' aether projectile is massless, and its speed does not change over the course of its flight. As it is massless, its physical structure is not impeded or deformed by other physical objects. Instead, it interacts by pushing a massive aetheric charge into anything it passes through, and where the amount of energy it attempts to insert exceeds the conductivity of the material (which is basically anything), it generates immense heat. The projectile seen with the naked eye is actually a ball of plasma generated by the ball of hard aether super-exciting the air it passes through. The projectile stops when it encounters a material of sufficient density to allow it to fully discharge its energy as heat, which usually instantly converts at least part of the impact surface to plasma, generating the characteristic apparent explosion and shockwave from an aetheric projectile.

As a consequence of the above, the power of an aetheric projectile degrades with distance, and the maximum range is strongly effected by the density of the surrounding medium. Clear, high-altitude air gives excellent distance, while a torrential thunderstorm, thick clouds, or heavy snow dramatically degrade range and increase heat build-up inside the barrel.


Clarification on Crystals
As mentioned before, crystals take decades or centuries to grow in the canon of the book. That really isn't an option here, so they're growth rate has been increased dramatically. Basically, as long as you have the resources, you can grow more. Of course, that has its own consequences. The crystals you grow are fraught with inclusions of the chemicals in the growth bath, and their structure frequently splits and goes against itself, creating structural weaknesses that would shatter the crystal under its own weight if it were allowed to grow. In short, you can do fast, but doing big isn't as easy as just leaving the crystal in the vattery for another month.

Types of Crystals
Currently you have access to Core (transforms aetheric energy into electricity), Lift (locally inverts or enhances gravity when charged), Trim (alters personal gravity when charged), Weapon (generates directed hard aether when charged), and probably Lumin (generates light for a time) crystals. Other types are certainly possible, but require extensive engineering, and are likely to be quite ineffective in initial tests. If you want to make a crystal that acts as a pump and moves fluids along the direction of electrical current flow across its surface, that's viable- just don't expect it to be making much more than novelty fountains on the first try.

Errata

Catgirls and You!
The Warriorborn are canon to the books, and I'm completely fine with having them here. However, their existence is not so much a determined certainty as it is a rumor and an urban legend. As stated before, they'll most likely come up as an opportunity when you're working on other projects to improve marines.

Speaking loosely, the modern warriorborn are the product of a set of recessive genetic triggers. You get them all activated, and the kid starts to express various alterations in metabolism, body temperature, musculature, and brain chemistry. Warriorborn are stronger, faster, and generally physically superior to vanilla humans, but lose some lateral thinking ability and gain a predilection for obsessive tendencies and a shortened lifespan.

All that being said, I am... semi-open to other kinds of warriorborn than the book canon cat-like archetype. 

My cat is talking to me, and he thinks I'm uninspiring and poorly dressed.
Cats, in the books, are extremely intelligent. Or at least they pull off a damn good job of appearing so. They're valued creatures for their ability to hunt and kill spire-pests, including small surface monsters trying to infiltrate air vents. Cats have their own language, which humans can learn, but the existence of such a language, and of individuals who speak it, is an urban legend in the current setting. Cat's do whatever the fuck they want, and anyone who thinks that they can talk to (much less reason with) a cat is either insane, a witch, or simple.



Clarification 2: Impossibru Boogaloo

When Do Ships Engage
The sky is big. Really big. You won't just believe how hugely enormously big it is*.  It's not all clear sky either, with perfect visibility out to the horizon. There's different types of clouds at every level, swells in the mist from below, freak storms that block visibility, and (this being outdoors) it's dark as fuck half the time.

Ship captains navigate by a mixture of maps, compass, astrolabe, available landmarks (spires), and the fire of patriotism that guides every Wrethan/Kasgyrite soldier home. There is no RADAR or similar distance vision techniques, which means you're wholly reliant on a crew member of a ship actually spotting an enemy vessel.

As mentioned, even when you know exactly where the enemy is going (landing at a spire), this is non-trivial due to the distances involved and the three-dimensional nature of the problem. A half dozen skiffs at even intervals can make a decent, but not infallible watch group to prevent landings.

This number gets a little pale, however, when a group is asked to prevent all travel across or, worse, away from a spire's aerosphere. There's no need for a captain to get within ten miles of a spire. He may want to get close enough to get a sighting on the spire, but spires are basically mountains in the sky. You can see them from dozens of miles away.  At a distance of ten miles, a skiff occupies an area of the sky approximately equal to 0.001% that of the moon. This means you need patrols, spyglasses, all sorts of wonderful things that neither sad has at the moment.

There's been some frustration at the moment, but that's because people are assuming that these are ships equipped with things they just don't have. Communication between vessels is down primarily via pulling close and yelling loudly. Navigation is done by mariner's astrolabe. Spotting is done by that one farsighted guy. Better tactics for both patrol and stealth would help a great deal. You've got to remember that captains do not default to making good decisions. They default to doing the job they've been assigned with the tools they have assigned. Transports don't wait for a good opportunity to stealthily disgorge soldiers at the moment, they run straight up to  the spire and start unloading people.

I thought I was being nice when I decided that transports didn't interpret the 'close to engage' order to mean headbutt the enemy to death. Remember- your captain's are holding an idiot ball. Not like an idiot baseball, more like one of those novelty oversized beachballs.

Always remember: When something goes wrong, ask not how something how something was possible, ask whether there was anything that should make it impossible.

*And it's still just peanuts to space.**

**Don't go to space. This is Cinder Spires, not Disney's Treasure Planet.***

***Though that would be an interesting arms race.




How do we keep sending letters?

You just do. If you've got a tech that makes it more efficient, more power to you and it'll help, but you can't base any tactical technology off of your intrinsic ability to somehow send letters through a blockade and fifty tons of rock.



Can I run multiple shroud generating crystals?

This question has come up on both sides, so I figure I'll answer it here: Yes, but it takes some work. Balancing multiple large crystals in parallel is likely a design in and of itself in order to handle the interrelated effects and manage power distribution. More so if you're linking crystals of similar purpose but differing size. 



Do I have to wait a year before deploying prototype ships?

Short answer: No, and that includes refitting. A prototype may be deployed immediately, with as much kit as you can pay for. The reason for this is that, clearly, prototypes are being actively tested with a variety of equipment, you're just not allowed to take that equipment out of the lab until you pay for it. As long as you pay for the replacements, you can deploy a prototype at any time after its creation.



 OFFICIAL RULE CLARIFICATION AND REVISION

For ship movement and actions...

A ship can take actions before and after it moves.  Once a ship has moved has moved and taken another action, it cannot move again.

A ship can load/unload marines/equipment from an uncontested spire without precluding movement, assuming it hasn't moved already.

A Ship whose movement goes through contested space will be stopped for combat.  A ship whose turn begins in contested space can attempt to move out of contested space, which may or may not be successful.

If a ship loads/unloads marines/equipment from a contested spire, it ends movement as though that ship was engaged in combat, regardless of air control. Troops moved out of a contested spire in this manner are still subject to a final round of combat as retreat.

Refitting a ship precludes further movement, and (unless special infrastructure states otherwise) can only be done at the home spire.
Repairing a ship precludes further movement, and (unless special infrastructure states otherwise) can only be done at the home spire.

Short notes:
1. A ship can load marines and equipment at a friendly spire, move, and offload them at a friendly spire.
2. Retreats are messy, and will end movement.
3. A ship cannot move after a refit.
4. A ship cannot move after a repair.



Rule Clarifications

Existing Tech Clarifications
1. Giving a transport a VS core or a VS lift would strain it to the utmost, and would be asking for disaster.  Both would be impossible.
2. The Basic Light Aether cannon, when fired 'cold', can fire 1 shot every six seconds for about thirty seconds without melting the barrel. Once the weapon is hot, the fire right drops to twice a minute.

Production Lines
1. If you switch a production line to new production pattern that is the same vessel upgraded equipment, the Spire will still only refit the vessels at the production rate. It will, however, build new vessels before it refits existing ones.

Designs and Revisions
1. You can revise anything you already have, but you can't make changes to an unfinished design until you have a prototype.
2. You can absolutely make design/patterns/tactics based off prototypes. Most, however, will only become viable after prototype completion.
3. Revisions that are (mostly) unambiguously better and costless automatically overwrite the old tech. If a revision changes the tech's functionality or cost, you can manufacture the two independently. 
---> 3.1 Already Deployed ships are exempt from this.  A ship must be brought back to its spire and refit before it 'catches up' to current tech, even if new tech normally overwrites the prior tech. This refit will be at repair costs (50% of original)
4. You can make as many revisions as you have dice for.
5. You can make multiple revisions to the same piece of tech in the same round.

Projects
1. If you overpay dice and resources to progress a project, (i.e you pay the resources to roll two dice for progress, but the first die completes the project) you lose the extra resources spent, but you gain the die back for the revision phase.
2.  If you overpay initial prototype dice (which cannot advance a project further than 50% unless it does so on the first die), you DO lose the extra die spent.

Ship Movement
1. Transports ships end their movement when they deposit troops. A transport cannot move, drop troops, and then complete its move.

Setting Interactions
1. The (current) upper limit of the aerosphere is a bit more than 3 miles, going above that for prolonged periods invites disaster. It's worth noting that's also an altitude at which even experienced marines will develop altitude sickness, which plays into the aether madness strongly.
2. Think of Aether more as a high energy field than a gas, one that interacts with brains when the power gets high enough.
3. The Everstorm and The Calm are both approximately 10 miles in height.
4. Think of Iron Rot like an infection. Once it sets in, it will travel throughout the entire iron structure to a ridiculous degree- including typically stainless alloys. Simply shielding an already rotting section of iron will not stop the rot. It has to be scrubbed completely, then re-sealed.
5. A shroud will stop a lightning strike, though it will be damaged by it. However, it will not stop a solid physical object from conducting energy through the barrier. As an example, a shroud effectively absorbs aetheric energy blasts, but webbing conducts aetheric energy through the shroud.
---> 5.1 Sufficiently small amounts of Aetheric energy, such as ambient energy, can pass through a shroud unhindered.
6. If you don't understand what someone telling you they're detecting onigiri means in context, you haven't read the rules thoroughly enough.

Errata
1. Yes, there is going to be bizarre and invisible text at the bottom of the year begin/last year's combat updates from now on. You probably didn't notice it on the last turn, but please don't quote it directly. It's so when I do a search I can rapidly index the core posts for each thread.
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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #217 on: August 15, 2017, 12:47:06 pm »

Guys, you weren't going to do anything... aggressive.. with your wounded kunai, were you?
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Kashyyk

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #218 on: August 15, 2017, 01:03:39 pm »

That would depend on your definition.
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Jerick

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #219 on: August 15, 2017, 01:04:04 pm »

Guys, you weren't going to do anything... aggressive.. with your wounded kunai, were you?
No comment
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NAV

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #220 on: August 16, 2017, 01:54:56 pm »

"Eye of the Storm" by Lovett

I knew Draignean's avatar was familiar! Very appropriate music video for the setting.
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Highmax…dead, flesh torn from him, though his skill with the sword was unmatched…military…Nearly destroyed .. Rhunorah... dead... Mastahcheese returns...dead. Gaul...alive, still locked in combat. NAV...Alive, drinking booze....
The face on the toaster does not look like one of mercy.

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #221 on: August 16, 2017, 02:04:51 pm »

Ooh, nice find.
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Yeah, he's a banned spammer. Normally we'd delete this thread too, but people were having too much fun with it by the time we got here.

Nirur Torir

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #222 on: August 16, 2017, 07:05:13 pm »

Quote
However, they have managed to destroy several transports, including a primary and secondary paperwork shipment (though not the triplicate shipment, thank heaven)
How could you?
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milo christiansen

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #223 on: August 16, 2017, 07:06:37 pm »

Evil monsters.
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Draignean

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Re: Arms Race: War of the Cinder Spires
« Reply #224 on: August 16, 2017, 07:11:52 pm »

In order to prevent sandbagging, I've made a small change to the AC option.

Edit: Also sweetened the Pot for the Justified perk.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 07:21:56 pm by Draignean »
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