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Author Topic: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II : 1922 "The art of Boxes"  (Read 8651 times)

Nirur Torir

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B: Use that production:
  480 'M21' torpedo boats.
  150 '1921' machine guns, 50 'cute apple' mortars.

Voting for projects 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, B, α, γ, and no metal costs.

I really don't see nimbleness helping much if the boat goes down against a single rapid-fire 40mm hit. Having tons of reserves does help.

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10ebbor10

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Anyway, some rough guidelines on resources, which I'm currently still rebalancing

Workforce : 1 represent 10 000 men, or 1000 production points worth of factories
Food: 1 unit represents supplies for 10 000 men
Coal: 1 unit operates 5000 tonnes of steam propulsion, can be combined with 1 iron to get 1 steel, or can power 2000 pp worth of factories
Iron: 1 unit can be combined with 1 coal to get steel, or can allow 1000 pp worth of factories to make designs containing iron
Steel:   1 unit allows 2000 pp worth of factories to make designs containing steel
Construction Supplies : 1 unit allows maintenance on 10 000 pp worth of factories in peace conditions
Diesel:  1 unit operates 1000 tonnes of diesel propulsion
Trade Convoys : 1/3  1 unit allows the import of 1 resource
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Madman198237

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We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

Khang36

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For some reason i am not getting any notifications for this thread.

6. Mk1 85mm howitzer (medium): is a light artillery piece. The goal of this design is to have a gun that is light enough for our force to be able to bring them with the infantry to location that is not assesable for our larger guns and vehicles.
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10ebbor10

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Anyway, update tomorrow, so if you want to vote, vote.
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Strongpoint

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Signal rocket launcher SR-21
It is a simple launcher that fire a firework like rocket into the sky as an additional way to send signals to friendly troops


This little project should improve coordination of our troops before we eventually go radio. Also, It is a nice first step to our rocket program

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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Aseaheru

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 It could also be handled faster and at less cost(since we wouldn't have to build piles of flare guns) as upgrades to grenades, mortars, or even arty or shotguns.
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stabbymcstabstab

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Long Live Arst- United Forenia!
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Contemplate why we have a sociopathic necrophiliac RAPIST sadomasochist bipolar monster in our ranks, also find some cheese.

RAM

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Voting for ummmm...
1, 1.1, 4, 1920.4, 10, B, δ

δ: 2000 prods: Request continuous upgrades to our production until we reach 2000. To be done in accordance with national needs, but within 4 years.

I am thinkin that we should have separate proposal and vote stages, in order to facilitate getting all the votes on a single post as required by the rules...
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
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3_14159

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ebbor asked me to collect the votes. We originally had a tie between the Dinosaur Rift fix and the grenade; somemildmanneredidiot asked me to throw in their vote for the former, breaking that tie.


Quote from: Chosen Projects
Large: CT-22 "Mule" 2.5t Cargo Truck
Medium 1: ET-22 100hp engine
Medium 2: PB-21 Pillbox
Small 1: M20/21 Pistol Work
Small 2: CH160a Dinosaur Rift Mod B
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10ebbor10

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II
« Reply #85 on: July 10, 2017, 11:11:56 am »

Quote
CT-22 "Mule" Cargo Truck (Medium)

A 6x6 off-road capable truck, rated to carry 2.5 tons of cargo. It is usually equipped with a simple canvas-covered flat back, but adding a tank converts it to a tanker truck. The cabin is simple sheet metal with a windscreen. The truck has a tow-bar, allowing it to tow guns or trailers. It mounts the to-be-developed 100hp engine.

Relevant rolls : 8, 8, 8, 8, 1, 1, 1,  1,
Progress : 3(standard) + 4 (Rolls) - 7 (Difficulty) = Completed
Flaws : 4 (rolls)

From a distance, the Mule looks like an impressive vehicle. Unfortunately, the moment you try to actually drive it, all hell breaks loose. Quite literally, as a matter of fact. The sound the engine makes is hellish, bearable only because it's drowned out by the massive rattling unleashed whenever the vehicle moves.  The 6 wheel drive system is bizarrely complex and largely handmade, and breaks down repeatedly under heavy loads (too much weight), light loads (too much rattling), or mean looks. Night time testing has revealed that the truck does not do well under fire.

CT-22 "Mule" 6x6 Cargo Truck
Carrying capacity: 2.5 ton
Engine power : 100 hp
Maximum speed: 20 km/h
Cost: 10
Flaws : Expensive, Loud, Unreliable, Fragile

Quote
Medium 1: A simple diesel engine for use in our cargo truck. Prioritize ease of maintenance and fuel consumption. Should produce 75-100hp.

Relevant rolls : 9, 8, 8, 1, 9, 1
Progress : 2 (standard) + 4 (rolls) - 4 (Difficulty) = 2 (excess progress : 1 Flaw solved)
Flaws : 2 - 1 = 0

The ET-22 engine is a decent engine. In test it proves to be suitably reliable, produce only moderate amounts of noise, and have a decent fuel consumption. Our engineers are hence somewhat confused about what actually happened when their engine was included in the vehicle project

ET-22 100 hp Diesel engine
Weight: 300 kg
Power: 75 Kw (100 hp)
Displacement:
     - Short      : 1 ton
     - Medium   : 1.5 ton
     - Long       : 3 ton   ((This is the range that is used in ships were no default range is given))

Quote
PB-21
PB-21 or pillbox 21 is a relatively small concrete guard post equipped with two Model 1921 Machine guns and 40mm autocannon. Should be able withstand direct hits from medium artillery pieces.
Relevant Rolls : 8, 8, 8, 10, 9, 8, 9
Progress: 2 (standard) + 7 (rolls) - 3(Difficulty) = 6 (excess progress : 3 bonii)
Flaws = 0 -1 - 3 = 4 Bonii

The pillbox teams excels in their given task, and soon has developed not only a simply standardized concrete guard posts, but a whole series of designs for a wide variety of situations. They didn't have time to explore all their ideas, but were well on their way with many possible solutions.

The basic design is a small hexagonal concrete guard posts equipped two machine guns and an autocannon. It's a bit cramped, but professional design of the pillbox makes it comfortable and tolerable even for prolonged periods of time.

PB-21 (Pillbox : Small)
Armament : 2 Model 1921 Machine guns, 1 40 mm autocannon

Bonus vote (Pick 4):

- Simple variant : A smaller variant without the cannon
- Casematte variant : A much larger variant equipped with a 80 mm cannon
- Artillery bunker variant : A variant equipped with a 160 mm cannon
- Cheap
- Camouflaged
- Communication Network : Provisions for a field telephone are included, although they may not be included in every bunker
- Rapid Construction : Design considerations ensure that the bunker can be build rapidly
- Well-supplied: Special design consideration has been given to the safe storage of large amounts of ammunition

Quote
Small 1: M1921/22 Pistol- Further development includes working on some form of fire selector for the weapon, development of a detachable(or at the least, folding wire) stock, and (if time permits) larger magazines.
Relevant rolls : 1, 8
Progress : 1 (standard) + 1 (rolls) - 1 (Difficulty) = 1 (excess progress: 0.5 bonii)
Flaws : 0 + 1 - 0.5 = 1 Minor Flaw

Work on the M1922 Pistol continues, although it remains troubled. The flaw that caused the unintended firing has been found, and a fire selector now allows it to be disabled completely. However, because the gun was never intended to be fully automatic, firing full auto has a tendency of making the weapon overheat.

Model 1921 Sidearm
Semi-automatic/ Automatic Pistol
10 Round Magazine
Flaw : Overheat during prolonged automatic fire
Cost:0.05

Quote
CH160a-1921 "Dinosaur Rift" Mod. B (Small)
The Dinosaur Rift is a perfectly fine gun, but it is hindered by its carriage and suspension. The Mod. B exchanges the carriage for a new one and reverts a few of our more drastic weight reduction measures. Any remaining time is spent reducing cost.
Relevant rolls : 10
Progress : 1 (standard) + 1 (rolls) - 1 (Difficulty) = 1 (excess progress: 0.5 bonii)
Flaws : 0 - 1 = 1 Bonus

Further attempts at resolving the issues with the Dinosaur Rift have been largely succesfull. The Spring suspension has been improved, ensuring that the gun can now be fired somewhat accurately. Further attempts have also resulted in some other, minor improvements.

Medium CH160a-1921 "Dinosaur Rift
A modification of the naval cannon to make it suitable for land warfare. It has a maximum rate of fire near 3 rounds per minute. It is typically crewed by a dozen men. This is a medium velocity gun without significant armor penetration. It's relatively movable thanks to it's removable barrel.
Weight: 6 ton
Construction cost: 20

Bonus : (pick 1)
- Accurate
- Rapid fire rate (4 rpm)
- Lower weight (4 ton)
- Cheap (15 cost)



Quote
Build machine guns (200 total) in the factory; torpedo boats (12 total) in the dockyard.

Construction of machine guns and a small initial sample can take off. Your naval engineers note that many more torpedo boats could be build, though he isn't certain if their fuel-hungry engines and expensive torpedoes could be afforded if you were to go all out on their production. The boats themselves are cheap, but their supply chain isn't.



Quote
α: Construction of recruitment and training center, to get our grubby mitts on a few extra workers and engineers

The recruitment and training center has been completed, pushed through the bureaucracy with remarkable ease after you pointed out the failure of the engineering team. One downside is that given your new educational facilities, your supervisors will now expect your men to be actually compentent at their jobs. In future failures, they may require that certain sanctions are taken.

Quote
γ: Para Bellum (1x small-arms, 1x artillery, 1x engine, 1x vehicle factories)

Finally, it appears, the war industry kicks into gear. By the end of the year, 3 new factories are under your domain. One dedicated to the production of small arms, the other to the production of artillery, and a third dedicated to vehicles and their engines. In preparation of the coming war, the central authorities have provided additional resources and workforce to temporally run double shift, ensuring doubled production next year.



News

In order to supply our small surface fleet, our government has seen fit to increase imports of gasoline fuel. For now, most of it goes to reserves, as only 12 boats are operational.

Additional manpower and iron reserves have been dedicated to military industry, allowing intensified preparations for the upcoming war. We're nearing, but have not yet reached the limits of our industrial capacity, showing the desperate need to recapture our mines.

Our spies have gathered evidence that Echar faces a slight shortage of basic nitrate following a severe accident at one of their fertilizer production facilities. These compounds are not only important for agriculture, but also for the production of many explosives. Naval command would like to have as many mobile long ranged naval vehicles as can be procured in a short period, so as to cut of Echar from these vital supplies.

The war will commence next year.



State of our nation :

Map

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3_14159

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II
« Reply #86 on: July 10, 2017, 03:00:04 pm »

- Truck
Wow. We need to fix that. Medium project for next turn, I think.

- Engine
Very nice. Should even be able to power our first plane experiments, if just so.

- PB-21
Seven successes? Wow. Also, probably Cheap, Comm Network, Rapid Construction, Camouflaged.

- M1911/22 Pistol
Works for now. Just don't fire it automatically.

- Dinosaur Rift
Perfectly fine. Start immediate production. For now, I'd probably choose either Accurate or Low Weight.

As for production, we should probably produce more machine guns and more artillery. We also don't have a choice but to produce trucks (because what else?)


For other projects, maybe a small armoured car?
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RAM

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II : 1922 "The art of Boxes"
« Reply #87 on: July 10, 2017, 04:58:21 pm »

I would really like cheap artillery, but...
4cheap=60 = 3x4=12 spm
3fast=60 = 3x4=12 spm
...
for that matter, reduced weight...
3 light = 9
2 fast = 8
Higher rate of fire would be better for concentration of forces and transportation.
Cheaper would be better for broader distribution and redundancy.
Accurate would be accurate...
Light would be more mobile...
I think that I have to go light. A 4 tonne 160mm gun would be nice as it is and would be quite compatible with self-propelled artillery, or even a large tank-destroyer... Or a minimally-armoured shore-bombardment naval vessel?
It hurts to not go of cheap because of the oceans of heavy artillery that I want, but light just seems too dreamy for long-term prospects...
Also because our truck is terrible : (

The Bunker?
A dedicated antipersonnel bunker would be very covenient, but machineguns can just be left out in the open too. I would certainly want it if there were no other options but...
An 80mm would be very nice for armour penetration, even if it is low velocity. We are currently defending a mountain border so armour should not be an immediate issue, but the prospect of a heavy vehicle just ignoring our biggest bunker is unsettling.
160 is dreamy... It is probably not ideal for use against vehicles, likely having tracking issues against fast targets and potentially being difficult to aim down, but this would really make the bunkers an important position. They can really extend their influence with something like that, and as a bunker it is somewhat difficult to attack them, so it ought to be a pretty good way of forcing people to deal with our bunkers rather than just going around them.
Cheap is cheap. Would be very nice combined with a 160mm that ought to be expensive. Can we game the system with this? We probably don't want to invest too heavily in static defences, and cheap tends to show its best side when you are trying to blanket the world, but cheapening a small investment works too.
Camouflaged is something that I really really want. It just screams "don't just blow up all my bunkers!". But stealth doesn't really last long once you start shooting, and bunkers can't reposition after exposing themselves. So hiding seems a bit much to hope for. It can still make for a difficult target for an aeroplane if they are shooting at the green thing in the green field, but yeah, not likely to be worth much in the long-run.
Communications is very nice as a strongpoint that ought to be able to reliably provide communications in the midst of troubles. Then again, we really need communications for our forces anyway... On the other hand, if they had a big gun then they would want to communicate with spotters... Hopefully this would become redundant in short order, but it is a good kind of redundancy...
Rapid construction is only a once-off that has little long-term benefit in its function. It is very tempting to just discard it and save the point. Like charisma on a barbarian... But being able to quickly set up your positions means that you can set them up in places where you normally couldn't dues to time constraints, and defensive positions are rather time-critical anyway. we will be advancingthe line eventually, so they will become useless in time, may as well have them up for as long as possible and take the pressure off your mobile forces as soon as possible... Not really sure that we can pass this one up.
Well-supplied is, erm... Well it ought not be too massively important so long as logistics are good. In theory they will be familiar routes through friendly territory. In practise they are predictable routes for forces that can be encircled. On the other hand, they are bunkers, they can't really turn around, if they are encircled then the bunker probably isn't the most important part of the defences. I mean, sure, it might be pinning down reinforcements, but generally if they can encircle you then they can continue to encircle you. But a reliable ammunition depot is always a good thing, and not having to worry about the guns going silent because a truck broke down is invaluable...

I am planning to vote
Artillery bunker variant
Rapid Construction
Well-supplied
Communication Network
Cheap

1: (small) 1923 4x20mm "pixie-dust"(P.D.) round: A small round for small jobs. Designed to reliably penetrate heavy clothing and chip bone. Should be reliably lethal if aimed at the heart at short range. This is useful for concealed weapons and high portability+high rate of fire armaments with a "don't worry so much about hitting the wrong thing" mentality. The low lethality is somewhat of an advantage as it may reduce civilian casualties in chaotic situations, and ought to be forceful enough to temporarily incapacitate someone who is hit repeatedly, thus being sufficient for close-quarters while encouraging rapid reactions. Ideally comes in a double-decker magazine for thickness close to that of an 8mm round while having almost four times the capacity.
 Probably not necessary, but it would be nice to get it right, even if it is probably going to be a minimally-used round.
2: (small) 1923 4x20mm "Paranoia's Debt" submachine gun: A very high rate-of-fire(840 per minute?) fully-automatic weapon adapted from the lessons of our pistol. Designed for casual-use with a large(84?) side-loaded box(double-decker?) magazine and minimal recoil that allow a soldier to shoot at shadows with minimal concerns.

3: (medium) 1923 80mm "Armadillo Nest" artillery: Designed for long range, accuracy, and some measure of protection, this gun is primarily intended for the destruction of enemy howitzer positions and spotting balloons.

Edit: Added box magazine reference to sub.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 08:32:15 pm by RAM »
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
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Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
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Nirur Torir

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II : 1922 "The art of Boxes"
« Reply #88 on: July 10, 2017, 05:38:28 pm »

I'd say we need cheap and rapid-construction. Camo and well-supplied has nice synergy if they get behind enemy lines, letting them continue cutting off supplies. Remember that we can improve these with small projects later, once we're past the mountains.
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Aseaheru

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II : 1922 "The art of Boxes"
« Reply #89 on: July 10, 2017, 07:56:47 pm »

 Depending on where we shove it, camo and well-supplied could be the difference between an enemy attack failing and it succeeding. For example, a beach landing. Camo makes it harder for bombardment to properly hit it(atleast if its designed for going after landed troops), while well supplied just keeps it fighting for longer.

 I would say to grab the camo, phones, supplies, and possibly the arty one(mostly as we should be able to make the arty ones able to act as decent anti-aircraft spots).

 On the rest... The truck needs replacing outright, the pistol I am sad to see lost the stock in its design work, the arty... Eh.

 
 On Ram designs:

 4x20mm is a really small round, for refrence .22lr is ~5.6x25mm. What sorta side magazine are you talking about on the SMG(if its stick, even with double stack thats gonna be a long, long magazine), and for that arty, same rounds as already are used on out 80mm cannon?

 On what I think we need prior to this war starting in earnest:
-Grenades. Everything is better with grenades, particularly assaults.
-indirect, platoon level fire support(AKA, light mortars)
-Light, maneuverable artillery support for that gap between platoon level and heavy tube arty. Heavier mortars are one option, so are pack howitzers.
-Squad-level indirect fire. Because if grenades are good, so are half your platoon being able to launch them 200+ meters. Rifle grenades are one possibility, grenade launchers another. However, rifle grenades have the issue of having to load blanks(or get lucky and design a shot-trap) and grenade launchers are harder to design new rounds(say, HEAT ammunition) for. Plus, if you have a grenade launcher, you really, really need to get it as something mounted on a rifle(or have a machine pistol, but thats a poor second).
-Assault weapons, be it shotguns, SMGs, machine pistols, or going right for an intermediate cartridge rifle. Battle rifles are... subpar.
-Sniper/marksmans rifles, namely the optics for them that we can shove on our standard rifle.


4. M23 Optical Sight; Development of a four-power fixed optic, designed to be individually fixed to a weapon and left there, and which each optic specific to the weapon.  A small, fixed aiming marker is provided. The design is intended initially to be paired with out standard rifle.[small]

5. The Model 1923 Trench Gun; A Pump action shotgun using 20mm cartridges(based off of ten-gauge shotgun shells) loaded with buckshot loaded into a five round, single stack detachable box magazine. A short, easily handled weapon idea for close quarters combat as a primary weapon, particularly when one of our standard bayonets is mounted. [Small Project]

6. M23 grenade; a 750 gram 45mm fragmentation grenade with smooth exterior walls and a 75 gram bursting charge.[Small Project][REQUIRED FOR 7]

7. M1891/23 grenade discharger; a modification of the Mostin-Nagant into a short carbine with the ability to launch a M23 grenade.[Small Project]

8. M23 75mm mortar; a three-piece medium mortar with a range of 2000m and 4kg HE warheads to start with.[Medium Project]

9. FAT-23; The Field Artillery Tractor, model of 1923, is a four wheel drive vehicle weighing aprox. 5 tons and powered by one of our ET-22 engines(which may also power a winch mounted on the bumper) intended to tow any of our existing artillery pieces on or off of the road, along with their crews and perhaps some of their ammunition. If time permits, development of additional versions is to be attempted, such as ambulances.[medium project]

Alpha: Attempt to acquire a number of FT-17 tanks from whoever, to provide a basis for domestic tank design.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 11:32:27 pm by Aseaheru »
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