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Author Topic: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II : 1922 "The art of Boxes"  (Read 8658 times)

Madman198237

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2017, 04:55:46 pm »

Alright, going to mention this NOW:

For Future Reference:
Proposals NEED a constant and unchanging format.

1. Designation Name [Project Size]
     1.1 Addendum
     1.2 COUNTER 1.1:
2.  UFN-LSD-41 Laser Sharks of Violent Death, carry lasers and eat enemies! [Small Project]
(Votes for project, aligned RIGHT)
     2.1 Add plasma lances!
(Votes for this addendum, aligned right)
     2.2 COUNTER 2.1: No plasma lances, too heavy for the sharks.
(Repeat, ad nauseam: Votes AGAINST addendum 2.1, align RIGHT)
     2.3 COUNTER ORIGIN: No "Violent" death, we're a peaceful country
(Votes against part of the original proposal)


FOLLOW THE BLASTED FORMATTING!!!!
Also, I made the votes a bit clearer.

Spoiler: Proposal Tracker (click to show/hide)
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Detoxicated

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2017, 05:05:00 pm »

But all i want is lots of q and x in names and hypernodern pyramid buildings
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Madman198237

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2017, 05:10:59 pm »

No.

Also, we need a better designation scheme. I actually stole the Intercontinental Arms Race one and gave what would likely be the designation if we actually did make Laser Sharks of Death in the present ICAR year (1941).
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3_14159

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2017, 05:16:30 pm »

I think that you should add the project's size to the description of the project itself. You have got it in there, but I feel as though, should the G.M. complain, then you don't really have a solid defence...
Good point.
Quote
I kind of shivered at the 105mm calibre. It was sort of obvious that it was based on a real weapon and I like moving away from that. But then again, I am not the sanest of partici pants so... I mean, sure, there are good reasons for those calibres, but I feel that we can do really well with the 4/8/16/32/40/80/160/320 scheme. 105 is a bit shy to really demolish all comers, 160 is the nice old standby that will reduce pretty much anything.
I strongly disagree. Don't look into it as calibres, look at it as shell weight. The 160mm calibre shell is going to mass eight times the 80mm shell. The gun itself is probably not going to scale quadratically but cubically, which means it weights four times as much.
In other words, we'd have the choice between a pretty anemic artillery gun and one that is too difficult to transport. A 105mm (or 100mm, I don't care), hits a sweet spot between those: Its shells are double the weight of the 80mm gun while the gun is only 50% heavier.

To make this more clear (using approximate numbers from real guns):
The German 105mm LeFH 18 massed about two tons. The Soviet 152mm M-10 mortar massed four tons. A LeFH was apparently drawn by a team of six horses, which'd mean you'd need to coordinate and feed about twelve horses per 160mm cannon or develop artillery tractors post-haste.

However, I should add that my main priority is getting us artillery. I'll vote for the 160mm cannon if it becomes clear it's our artillery choice - but we'll have to develop a vehicle next turn for it to be effective.

Quote
An 80 on the other hand is grand for something more subtle. It is difficult to get the famous 88 flak out of a 105. We want something precise and agile for primarily defensive fire against enemy artillery and spotters and such.
We can still do that - follow the real-world standardization of 105mm (or 100mm) for light artillery guns (which we're going to be restricted to in the beginning due to horse-drawn ones), 155 (or 160)mm for normal artillery, and 80mm as a general high-velocity gun.
That's actually also my criticism with 10.1 - it's stated to be a cannon for counter-battery and AA fire - but those two are mutually exclusive roles. AA requires extremely high muzzle velocities while counter-battery will require large HE payloads.



Lastly, what's the plan and role for the Cute Apple mortar?
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RAM

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2017, 05:57:48 pm »

The Cute Apple is for infantry to provide their own D.F.A. without having to call it in from another unit. It is basically the same as the 160mm except that instead of it being temporarily assigned by a commander, aimed by professional spotters, and communicated with by lines or radio, it is permanently assigned to a unit or something and ordered by a lieutenant waving to someone and then pointing at a church steeple... It doesn't have the pock-marked-wasteland effect of proper howitzers, but provides convenient indirect fire that can be easily managed at a local level and transported by infantry without appreciable loss of mobility to almost any location for deployment.

I feel that a vehicle for supporting artillery is necessary. We don't really have the resources to support self-propelled artillery and even relatively light units would benefit from mobility.

In the antiaircraft role I am mostly thinking of shooting down balloons. Although an eventual ack-ack round could probably be supported. And a high velocity is definitely desired, although that much can be limited, as it is more about gaining range against opposing batteries than hitting high-speed targets, but range is range and it would be nice to have a gun that can plausibly hit relatively high biplanes even if the odds are against it... And I know that I am betraying myself for saying this, but the design was loosely based upon the K17 which came up when I was looking for artillery technologies, which seem to be rather difficult to identify. So basically I want it to have high range and accuracy, which is important for counterbattery and eliminating spotters and shooting down aircraft. True, it needs a good idea of where the enemy batteries are, and we should probably put a design into that at some point, but shooting completely blind rarely achieves anything.
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Aseaheru

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2017, 08:18:49 am »

 The 40mm mortar is a tad small for most uses though, it would likley have a range similar to the 2" mortar, which had a range of roughly 460 meters. A slightly heavier weapon would be preferable in my eyes as a result.


 In any event, I am voting for 2.1, 5.1/5.3, 6.1, 7, 8, 9, and 10 as designs, B as production, α, β, and γ as other projects.

 Reasoning behind votes: 2.1 as 2 does not state magazine type or capacity, and stocks make everything better(plus we dont have to worry about idiotic laws on short barreled rifles), 5.1/5.3 as a boat with just two torpedoes is nearly useless, may aswell give it some form of harassment gun to bolster its output, plus it then gives us potential basis for some sort of PT boat(and sticking with steam for it is a tad silly), 6.1 as we might aswell get into the intermediate cartridge game early, plus we dont really ahve to worry about ammunition stocks quite asmuch at the moment. 7 and 8 would give us some major infantry shock power, with grenades for everyone and the ability to launch them for every squad(the IRL example, while a weak grenade, had something like six launchers per platoon), while 9 gives us a good medium mortar and 10 gives us the basis for an excellent AT and tank gun, aswell as a good AAA piece with the right ammunition.
 As for why somany votes? Because most probally wont pass.
Spoiler: Proposal Tracker (click to show/hide)
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Madman198237

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2017, 08:25:24 am »

Asea, we're using first three letters of your name, not the whole thing, please fix that.
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2017, 08:53:06 am »

PTW
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10ebbor10

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2017, 09:36:39 am »

Quote
The M21 Torpedo boat; a fast, petrol engine boat mounting two torpedo tubes and a few Mosins for the crew. Intended to be a light, cheap addition to the navy that can be mass-produced and used as auxiliaries to the main fleet to keep the coastline safe. [Large Project]
Team Alpha

The M21 torpedo boat's production proceeds at fairly rapid pace, and it's ready for testing by midyear. It's a fairly simple the design. Most of the ship's displacement is taken up by it's powerful engine, while the remainder is used to haul the heavy and powerful torpedoes it fires.

The torpedoes are identical to those currently used on the Revolutionary, simple dry burner designs with fairly short range, but a powerful warhead. Their presence makes the ship a significant threat, it it can use it's speed to avoid being hit as it delivers the weapons. Lack of armor means any hit would go straight through the vessel, and likely kill or injure the crew.

The engineering team report that they had greater success than expected, and were able to make additional improvements beyond normal expectations. These improvements are ascribed primarily to the work of one engineer who managed to coordinate the work of his fellows in efficient manner.

Choose 1 :
- Faster : Increase speed by 10 km/h
- Eased Production : Ship can be build in landside factories at the cost of 30 production points
- Armored : Upgrade Armor to protection against small arms
- Nimble : Gain trait "Nimble"
- Local resources : Eliminate metal cost

M21 Torpedo Boat (Production time: 1 month)
Length: 22m
Displacement: 45 metric tons
Propulsion: 2200 kW
Speed: 61 km/h
Range : Strictly coastal, short
Armor: negligible
Crew: 10
Armament:
2 2 ton torpedo tubes with 2 ton torpedo

Tonnage Allocations:
15 tons of boat parts
22 tons of short ranged petrol propulsion (1 ton = 100kw)
4 tons of torpedo systems
4 tons of torpedo

Quote
The Model 1921 Machine Gun; a belt fed, air-cooled machine gun utilising the 8x54mm cartridge of the Mosin-Nagant, the Model 1921 is intended to be carried by a single soldier (And a second man to carry the ammo). A benchmark of 600rpm is set as the minimum for the gun to be deemed successful, and the weapon should be reliable. [Medium Project]

Team Beta

The Model 1921 Machine gun is a terrifying weapon, primarily to our logistic officers. It's chews up ammunition at frighting rate, and goes through targets even faster. Even so, it does not reach the targets said. The gun fires just a bit too slowly, and is just too heavy to carry comfortably. On the other hand, it is perfectly reliable as long as it's treated with respect and given sufficient maintenance.

Cartridge: 8x54mm
Overall Length: 1.3m
Barrel Length: 0.6m air cooled
Magazine: 200 round belt fed
Weight: 20 kg
Rate of Fire: 550 rounds per minute
Cost : 2

Quote
11.1 Medium CH160a-1921 "Dinosaur Rift": I propose a 160mm bombardment howitzer based upon the 160 mm naval cannon. The goal is to produce a large volume of utterly devastating fire. A side-loaded, medium-length, smooth-bore barrel on an unadorned gun with spring suspension and a removable barrel. It should be relatively cheap and light while making few if any concessions from its current  performance. [Medium Project]

Progress on this weapon was troubled and slow, but in the end the team delivers. Their primary trouble was reducing the weight of the gun, and though they have succeeded in that, it has come at a significant cost. Overzealous weight reduction, combined with design errors in the suspension and carriage have rendered the cannon noticeably inaccurate, shifting of target with each shot.

Medium CH160a-1921 "Dinosaur Rift
A modification of the naval cannon to make it suitable for land warfare. It has a maximum rate of fire near 3 rounds per minute. It is typically crewed by a dozen men. This is a medium velocity gun without significant armor penetration. It's relatively moveable thanks to it's removeable barrel, but the flawed spring suspension renders it inaccurate.
Weight: 6 ton
Construction cost: 20
Flaw : Inaccurate

Quote
2. The Model 1921 Sidearm; A ten round semi-automatic pistol using a 10x25mm cartridge. The round should have decent stopping power and the pistol should be fairly comfortable to use and reliable. [Small Project]

Weapon test report : The Model 1921 Sidearm makes for an effective bludgeon, and it's decent weight also makes it fairly suitable for throwing. As a pistol however, it has some noticeable flaws. On paper, the gun is a semi-automatic pistol. In practice, for reasons our engineers struggle to explain, it often has the tendency to fire it's entire magazine in quick succession.

Model 1921 Sidearm
Semi-automatic Pistol
10 Round Magazine
Flaw : Uncontrolled automatic fire
Cost:0.05

9x25mm cartridge
Bullet: 9x12mm
Cartridge:10x25mm
A medium power pistol cartridge


Quote
12.1 Small CM40a-1921 "Cute Apple": 40mm Infantry Mortar for close-range fire support to infantry forces.

Work on this Mortar progress better than most previous designs. The 40 mm mortar project makes no spectacular breakthroughs, but delivers a simple and effective weapon. It consists of a simple metal tube fixed to a recoil absorbing baseplate. The drop sets of an impact fuse in the bottom of mortar shell, which launches the mortar shell towards the enemy.

CM40a-1921 "Cute Apple"
Weight : 50 kg
Range : 400 meters
Shell weight: 1.5 kg
Cost : 2



Quote
α - Clear out the sunken destroyer and get the wharf ready to build.
Beta: Construct a firing range and office for calculating range tables for artillery on various forms of ground.

A number of workers spends weeks to refloat the sunken destroyer. In the end, their efforts are not particularly succesfull, and the ship has to be destroyed in place before it can be removed. It took till the end of the year before the dockyard was freed, but you did eventually succeed in getting it operational for next year.

Work on the artillery firing range progresses quite fast, as is it consists primarily out of empty terrain that will soon have various holes in it. Targets are provided, as well as the needed equipment to prepare ranging tables for all our cannons. The military will appreciate no longer having to figure out those things themselves.



Quote
16 heavy cannons
16 light cannons

Our workmen work day and night to provide at least a bit of artillery for each army to use. By the end of the year, 16 heavy cannons stand ready, as well as 16 lighter cannons. The heavy cannons use the older pattern, as the new cannon was not finished at the time of their production.



News

You have received an urgent request from military command. The revolution must move forward, and they aim now to sweep over the Echarians who so cowardly invade our nation in it's moment of weakness. Our primary intent is the recapture of our Iron and coal mines, which are essential to our industrial economy. Already, their loss is causing problems for our citizens, and thus, they can not wait much longer.

The war will commence in two years.

In the early stage of the war, they expect 4 fronts to form.

1) The Naval Front : The least worrying of all fronts. Not 7 years prior, Echar's fleets were heavily damaged in a conflict with Vaskia. Their attempted invasion of the independent island state Echlea was smashed by the Vaskian fleets, who then went on to bombard several Echarian ports to force a quick surrender. The resulting treaty force Echar to obey strict limitations on the size of their fleet and the number of vessels they're allowed to possess.

2) The Mountain Front : The direct path from our nation to the enemy capital. These mountain roads are heavily fortified, and hard to pass even in peacetime. We will need a miracle weapon if we wish to force these passes. Our generals prefer to merely fortify our side of the border, and focus on reconquering our territory first.

3) Going North (Mountain Route) : There are few passes through the mountains, and the primary pass the enemy uses to supply their forces is remarkably close to our front lines. A rapid assault could potentially cut of the enemy from their primary supply lines, depriving them of all equipment they can not make in occupied territory, or smuggle across the smaller passes. The enemy is acutely aware of this thread, and has reinforced this area and the town that guards the pass. On the other hand, the stratagem is risky, as our forces could easily be cut of as well. Our generals are unlikely to attempt it if you can not provide them with a swift means of transport, and a means to take and hold the entrance to the pass pass.

4) Going North (Coastal Route) : The default solution. A broad push forwards, using our numerical strength to push the enemy before us. A strategy likely to result in significant casualties, but one without excessive risk. Our generals consider this the default war plan, and would appreciate any weapon that can aid this.

Intelligence on the enemy :

The revolution fights on in occupied territory. They have provided us with the following info :

We outnumber enemy forces slightly, though they may be able to summon additional forces from their heartlands in time.
Forces in our current occupied consist primarily off conscripts, though a significant cadre of Elite personel is present. The mountain passes are guarded exclusively by elite units.
The enemy lacks in heavy artillery, due to the trouble of taking such equipment over the mountain passes.
The enemy has seized several steam locomotives, and has outfitted them with captured artillery pieces.
The enemy possess effective infantry equipment (an accurate rifle, a decent sidearm and dangerous grenades)
The enemy has a decent machine gun.



State of our nation :

Map

Spoiler: Army (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Navy (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Airforce (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Resources (click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 09:41:49 am by 10ebbor10 »
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: The Glorious Design Bureau of the People II
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2017, 09:45:36 am »

Possible things:

Recruitment Center: Apparently was a thing in previous games, the sooner we get this up and running the more we'll get out of it.

Artillery Tractor: Increased mobility of Artillery, helps set up for Armored Cars and Tanks

Fixing the Dinosaur: Fairly self explanatory.
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Khang36

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We will also need to get a light howitzer for our force to bring through the mountain though i am split on whether to go for something in the 100mm range or an 80mm one.
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Madman198237

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Small project: Fix dinosaur
Small project: Fix that dumb pistol. That or just train soldiers to use an automatic pistol.

Medium project: Artillery tractor.
Medium project: Truck (Combine two medium teams to get us working on a truck that does everything?)

Large project: !!Science!! building. Aimed at improving our researchers' effectiveness, this building is a combination of rooms of doing the math, doing the engineering, rooms for parts, some workshops, and it sits right next to the firing range, to facilitate the rapid production and testing of prototypes.
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Strongpoint

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We have quite a lot of unused construction supplies. How about designing pillboxes allowing us to free men from mountain fronts?
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stabbymcstabstab

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Well me might as well keep the automatic feature on the pistol, and we definitely want to combine the truck and Artillery tractor it'll be easier for our supply lines.
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Madman198237

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Small project: Fix dinosaur
Small project: Fix that dumb pistol. That or just train soldiers to use an automatic pistol.

Medium Teams: Combine for season, create all-purpose truck and trailer capable of hauling all our artillery guns.

Large project: !!Science!! building. Aimed at improving our researchers' effectiveness, this building is a combination of rooms of doing the math, doing the engineering, rooms for parts, some workshops, and it sits right next to the firing range, to facilitate the rapid production and testing of prototypes.

Work Force: Construct bunkers in mountains---all paths.
Work Force: Rework firing range/place close to artillery range (Testing!)

M21 Torpedo Boat: Nimble trait (Dodging fire all day long!)
Produce TWELVE torpedo boats this year (Fill one shipbuilding/boatbuilding dock for 12 months)

Do we need to build the machineguns?
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