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[Kashyyk]

Spoiler: Trade Pacts (click to show/hide)

Two nations are eligible to form a Trade Pact if they either:

a) Share a land border.
b) Have a single water territory between them.
c) Complete a trade mission with a caravan.
d) Both have an existing Trade Pact with a third party.  But see the Caveat below.

The process for completing a Trade Mission is as follows.

1) Build a caravan.
2) Move said Caravan to the target province.
3) On the following turn, spend 1 full turn in that province setting up the route.
4) The turn after that, the trade route is established.

This means that a trade mission takes a minimum of 3 turns to complete.  On turn 1 the caravan comes into existence and moves to its target province.  On turn 2, the caravan spends the full turn completing the mission.  At the start of turn 3, the mission has been completed and the Cash Bonus is credited to the owner's treasury.

If you have completed a trade mission with a caravan, you may establish a Trade Pact on the same turn as you are completing the mission.  That is to say, if you agree to the pact on Turn 2, it will take effect at the start of Turn 3.

If you agree to form a Trade Pact one of the other ways (i.e. sharing a land/sea border or via a third party) it still takes 1 full turn to establish the Pact. Therefore, it takes effect the following turn after you agree to do so.  Trade Pacts may be cancelled at any time by either party, with that cancellation taking effect the start of the following turn.

To form a trade pact without a shared border or caravan, two nations must both be trading with a third party. By this method a nation can work their way up a chain of trading nations.

e.g. Acheron and Borogravia both share borders with Castille (but not each other).  If they are both trading with Castille, they will be able to open a trade pact with one another.  Damascus shares a border with Borogravia, but not the others.  In order to trade with the others, Damascus must open a trade pact with Borogravia first, before having access to all of Borogravia's trade partners..

Trade Pact Effects

The effects of a Trade Pact are as follows:

a)  Both Pact Members receive a bonus to income equal to 10% of their partner's base income (before trade bonuses).
b)  Both Pact Members gain access to their partner's controlled resources for the purposes of buildings (e.g. Marketplaces) and troop construction (e.g. Axemen).
c)  Both Pact Members can send cash to each other.  This will arrive at the beginning of the next turn.
d)  Both Pact Members can send technology to each other.  This will arrive at the beginning of the next turn.

In addition:

a)  Cash may be sent between indirect trade partners (i.e. From the source to a Trade Partner, to a destination nation who is Trade Partner to the second nation but not the first), through any number of intermediate trade partners.  This takes 1 full turn and every nation in the chain has the option to steal the cash.
b)  Technology may be sent between indirect trade partners as with cash.  This takes 1 full turn and every nation in the chain has the option to steal the tech.

I've adjusted the document Iituem wrote, for which I thank you. Whilst we're on the topic, please ask any more questions you have, and I'll add them to this then put them it in the OP of the main thread.

[Criptfeind]

If your trading with other people though though another party, and they cease to exist, can your trade route continue though whoever took them over, or does it need to be specifically though them?

As a long and complicated example of what I mean and fit in a few other questions, imagine that Brimstone is trading though Revakn to Storm to Yorturim to Pollock. Corax attacks and annihilates Yorturim over a few turns, and in the first turn it takes over it's major trade hub, does that break the trade between Pollock and the others? If not, Tensions rise, allies line up on each side, and Corax blockades the trade route that goes though it's new lands from Brimstone to Pollock specifically. After a number of turns, A brimstone fleet lands and annihilates Corax, or at the least takes over the territories that the trade route to Pollock goes though, does that reopen trade between Brimstone and Pollock despite the original route being set up though a now non existent Yorturim?

Don't mean anything by using specific names, just figure it's easier to see exactly what I mean by using real geography  in the game rather then abstract a+b+c

[Nirur Torir]

Already answered. Conquering a province destroys any routes stopping in it.

[Criptfeind]

Ah. Alright. Thanks.

[Kashyyk]

Only the trade routes that terminate in a captured territory will be dissolved. However, any trade route that passes through a captured territory will be disrupted for that turn. Thus if Tiruin acted as the hub of a spiderweb of trade and got into a war with the Old Empire, the war could disrupt a lot of trade if territories regularly changed hands. The various armies involved may choose to raid or block trade in the area as well, further complicating things.

[Tiruin]

^ TFW you really want to play and RP a lore-based pacifist nation, and it works out (at least in the start when people are greater in armies and can crush you, but they trust you instead)
...
I shouldn't have gotten into trying these communication shorthands that are widespread over the internet now x.x Is that how it's done?

Only the trade routes that terminate in a captured territory will be dissolved. However, any trade route that passes through a captured territory will be disrupted for that turn. Thus if Tiruin acted as the hub of a spiderweb of trade and got into a war with the Old Empire, the war could disrupt a lot of trade if territories regularly changed hands. The various armies involved may choose to raid or block trade in the area as well, further complicating things.

They can't go to war with me!

I pay my taxes! D:< (And will probably throw them a trophy if I ever get to a local event that has monsters that aren't human peasants or otherwise, for proof that we're seriously a wilderlands agency)
That 700 wasted a whole turn and more. Hmph!

I'll probably go into bribery to lessen the actual % of my pay. Like a flat tax of 100 until I get 2000 income. :v

Indeed, some level of redundancy is good. you probably want your own personal lines to various points. If Tiruin attacked me in a few turns, I'd be screwed since I'm totally relying on her for my trade and would be immediately blockaded. Even if I won it'd take a lengthy rebuilding process to remake the vital trade routes. Equally, I couldn't attack her without a lengthy and expensive disruption. Tactically you'll want to spread to a few different entrances in the link to avoid any one specific conflict cutting you off... Not that that'll help if you become a pariah, which we learned in the last game getting totally cut off from trade is a very easy and passive aggressive way to cripple a nation before killing them.

Y'all have my word that I won't attack anyone even if the opportunity arises. Also because I'd love to be that spiderweb of trade (problem being me and the west, goes right through the middle of the Empire. Dual problem being that that's the THINNEST provincial line :3 [Picture it starting from N Beaton])

And/or send me 1000 in moneys to start up caravans :3 I'll split shares with everyone. (Pay back 1000 if it's a profit and get the rest, obviously open to other deals)

[Iituem]

OOC Note:  I looked at your spoiler for Turn 0, Cript, purely to get the name of your capital city.  I didn't check any other information, but the knowledge that you probably had 4 Light Macemen back on Turn 0 isn't really a tactical loss, so I figured it would be safe.

About a month after the arrival of Penelope of House Iodrite in Boar's Peak, an ox-driven carriage flanked by an honour guard of a dozen spear-pigs arrives in Brightlin in East Maver.  Three carts stacked with sacks and bolts of cloth follow, as well as a number of human figures with heavy wooden weights tied between their ankles and bound wrists.

Spoiler: The Brimstone Republic (click to show/hide)

When the carriage arrives at the First Speaker's residence in Brightlin, a shaggy, grey and white haired sow emerges, dressed in a black and white dress of the finest, softest cotton.  After waiting the appropriate amount of time for an audience with the First Speaker, she addresses him in a rather broad voice compared to the refined tones of many of the classical Imperial nobility.

"We thank you for your welcome to your abode, First Speaker Bartirio.  May you have a thousand young and not one of them die.  May your bones lie untouched in the earth, flesh still attached and not devoured.  May you never pass into the darkened shed, never to know your future.

"Traditional blessings aside, First Speaker, I am Countess Mangalica of Sow's End, of the House of Scrofa, cadet house to the House of Suidae, cousin to Princess Gruntsnuffle.  The Princess offers her apologies that she cannot attend personally, but matters of state require her constant presence at Boar's Peak, as I am sure you understand.  The Princess would like to extend her thanks for the many gifts Lady Penelope brought, especially the wine which I may personally add was most palatable.  In addition, the lamb and beef was most welcome, as were the beautiful dyes your House produces.  We have brought some gifts of our own in thanks."

Countess Mangalica gestures to her retinue, who bring forth sacks of grain, bolts of cloth and the handful of prisoners.

"Our own lands of Pork produce many yields of wheat and barley, as well as the finest cotton in the southern Empire.  As a further token, we would like you to accept these humans, taken from South Owldale during the battle.  They are useful for both meat and labour, although regrettably they produce sub-par milk.  It is our hope that a formal trading relationship will see both our nations' goods in one another's markets.

"In addition, we have reviewed your offer and would like to offer you six hundred pounds of silver, either in silver itself or equivalent goods, in exchange for tuition in matters of diplomacy and the brewing process, as we believe we could produce a fair beer to your wine with our barley.  Additionally, we note your positive and stable relationship between the Brimstone Republic and Alliance of Revakn.  Is this merely a friendly arrangement, or a full alliance between your nations?  We ask merely for information."

OOC:  So yeah, 600 for Diplo I and Ferm I is acceptable, but it will take 3 turns; 1 turn to Trade Pact with Alliance, 1 turn to TP with Brimstone, 1 turn to receive gold/tech.  If that offer's still open, we are very happy to take it.

As the town of Tieham continues to be cleared of bodies, the porcine army begins the process of binding the surviving spearmen who defended the town for transport back to Pork, save for a small number of the choicest captives sent north to Brimstone.  Princess Gruntsnuffle and her staff, in the mean time, have taken up residence in one of the nicer buildings, an old inn, while they make preparations to leave.  A new force of swinefolk arrive in short order, bringing tools and materials to begin laying the foundation of permanent roads linking the province to Boar's Peak.  As the Princess dines on some choice cuts of roasted Owlsdale defender, she pens a letter to Talarys Revande.

Spoiler: The Alliance of Revakn (click to show/hide)

Esteemed Alliance Leader Talarys Revande,

As promised, we have sent aid to claim the town of Tieham here in South Owldale.  Further to our earlier agreement, the Royal Engineers' Corps has been sent to Tieham to begin immediate construction of highways and conduct repairs to the walls.  It is our hope to eventually station troops here full-time to assist with the defence of the province.

In the mean time, I would like to take you up on your prior open offer to all interested parties to open trade, now that we have a border.  If this is amenable, Porcine merchants will begin supplying grain and cotton textiles to your markets.

Your prior plea for help has not gone unnoticed, where you offered knowledge of your new weaponsmithing techniques in exchange for military assistance with South Owldale.  I and my army would like to know if you plan to uphold that bargain in the coming season.

Finally, I would once again care to broach the subject of a true alliance between our nations.  Should you change your mind on this matter, it is a simple matter to make the appropriate marital arrangements.

The Finest Regards,

Princess Gruntsnuffle of the House of Suidae
Principality of Pork

[Criptfeind]

Hey Kashyyk: If you use a diplomat to embezzle funds from a neutral territory, will that eventually cause them to disband part of their defensive force for lack of money? Assuming they fail to catch your diplomat.

[Kashyyk]

If it puts them in debt,  yes. They will also get upset with you and attempt some form of retaliation if they work out who did it.

[Criptfeind]

Them working out who did it generally=failing the roll to embezzle?

Edit: Also to Iituem, might make an rpy response later, but for now, yeah, I'm okay having the deal happen in 3 turns of course. No skin off my nose etc.

Also are you two going to go in against the source of the disturbance? It was Cauldron C if I recall, right? Who owns that in your little dealing? I also can't help but notice that from there we can open up trade with Novatechs, which would be cool... Although I have no idea if they'd be up for it, I can't recall ever seeing them post in this thread, and also they don't appear to. Have done anything. Just sitting there on one province... Unlike you they aren't surrounded by greens and bad decisions. Suspicious!

[Iituem]

Oh, C Cauldron's going down.  It's just not going down until so many troops are healed.

[Criptfeind]

Oh. I guess I should have asked this previously, but do we get any cash back for deconstructing a building? I know that's like... Sometimes a thing in 4x games, and sometimes not.

[Kashyyk]

You'll receive half the value of the building, and it will be deconstructed by one level. So if you demolish an Improved Farm, you would end up with £500 and a regular Farm.

[RulerOfNothing]

How many buildings can we construct in a territory in one turn? Also, is there any way of increasing the value of trade pacts?

[Kashyyk]

You can construct as many as you can afford, but you can't construct a building and it's post-requisite in one turn.

For increasing Trade Pacts, try research.