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[NJW2000]

Not playing well for May. I recall hearing about some link between one of the advisors and a company that worked on the cladding too.

The Tories just seem... really afraid of poor people, I guess.

[martinuzz]

Let's just say the Tories are EXTREMELY lucky that this fire happened after election day.

Frankie Boyle put it this way in yesterday's New World Order.

Theresa May has been given a very strong mandate to fuck off

[Starver]

Apparently, apart from the one we are (currently) due to get next week, there just isn't time to grow a new Queen's Peach next year.

(Really, it's just a reading out of the front page sheet of the agenda that the government sets out, and will still have to consider putting down in writing regardless of whether Brexit is happening. It isn't even legally binding. It's a wish-list and a run-through of vague and/or suspiciously-overly-specific 'promises', many of which don't survive contact with the enemy (opposition votes, world events, etc), and about the best thing about not having one is that it means Liz doesn't have to grit her teeth and get on with speaking a whole lot of tosh that she probably doesn't even believe, and likely doesn't even privately support.)

[smjjames]

Apparently, apart from the one we are (currently) due to get next week, there just isn't time to grow a new Queen's Peach next year.

(Really, it's just a reading out of the front page sheet of the agenda that the government sets out, and will still have to consider putting down in writing regardless of whether Brexit is happening. It isn't even legally binding. It's a wish-list and a run-through of vague and/or suspiciously-overly-specific 'promises', many of which don't survive contact with the enemy (opposition votes, world events, etc), and about the best thing about not having one is that it means Liz doesn't have to grit her teeth and get on with speaking a whole lot of tosh that she probably doesn't even believe, and likely doesn't even privately support.)

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40317814

Yeah, I thought it was just a formality with reading what they'd like to do for the year. Similar to the State of the Union address here, except more complicated because it isn't one person dictating what they want in it. Though I guess you guys make a bigger deal out of it than we do here.

[Owlbread]

Hello everyone, I trust you are all well? I see we have had much good discussion of the election and its aftermath. I personally don't know how to feel about it all. I think if the SNP had lost to a centre-right labour party (led by David Miliband for example) I would have felt infinitely worse. I don't want to say I'm hopeful because I have no faith in the system or the Labour party and I am deeply suspicious of Corbyn and his allies (backpedaling on Trident anyone?) but I know this kind of situation is the best I could have hoped for.

The SNP losing wasn't a surprise to me, but I was surprised at just how much they lost. I think Nicola Sturgeon's indyref2 proclaimation will be looked at in years to come as her gravest mistake, but how was she to know Theresa May would call an election so soon after? I think if we look at the 2016 results for the Scottish Parliamentary election we can see how things could have gone without her playing that particular card. Last year the Tories did well, SNP pushed Labour back a bit (but not completely, due to PR voting system) and the Lib Dems held on. No colossal defeats for the SNP though. That came this year as a kind of punishment from the public and the backlash was strongest in pro-Brexit areas like the North East, formerly our heartlands (though they did vote No convincingly in 2014). I was surprised at the Labour swing though, but that was due to younger people voting Labour for Corbyn, but considering how little the SNP are doing in their newly-won "heartlands", even taking them for granted, who can blame them? I must say though there is a considerable difference between Scottish Labour and UK Labour now. Scottish Labour are more centrist and are opposed to Corbyn - the only thing that matters to them is preserving the Union, just like the Tories, and there are reports in the papers of their leadership team cheering with delight last week when the Tories beat the SNP in the North East and the Loyalist vote started to rear its ugly head in the South.

As unfortunate as this is, and as much as I detest the Tories, I think the SNP needed a good kick up the backside. Winning everything in 2015 and gaining 70,000+ members didn't really bring about that much change. They continued to try to be all things to all people, talking the talk on progressive politics in Scotland without really bringing in any tangible, game changing policies. The party itself is run by a small group of control freaks who are terrified of the activist base and actively discouraged any of the meetings and rallies that got people engaged in politics in the first place. They completely squandered that energy and good will through their lack of imagination. I personally didn't want indyref2 at all, not for a good few years at least, simply because we wouldn't win it. We only get one more chance.

I don't know how things will go. I think Sturgeon needs time to reflect on what has happened and reassess her relationship with Corbyn,  but keeping indyref2 off the table for now while Brexit unfolds is no bad thing in my eyes. Now more than ever we need to concentrate on building the distinctive, socially just society we wanted in 2014 as much as we can within the current framework and demanding the powers needed to do so.

[Helgoland]

Owlbread, you're back! Finally I no longer need to rely on the inferior pigeonbread as a substitute.

[Frumple]

Hey OB. If it makes yeh feel any better, from what folks have been saying about the SNP's performance, the sane evaluation of their efforts this election is they still did pretty damn good. It's just there was no way on earth they were going to maintain the numbers they had previously, heh.

[hector13]

Well yeah, it's kinda hard to figure they lost when they won the majority of the seats they were standing in, and it's been made abundantly clear that Scottish Labour are willing to collaborate with the Tories to keep the SNP out.

Brexit played a significant part in this one. I imagine the Scottish Leavers wanted a hard Brexit, and the only major party paying that was the Tories. That's the only explanation I can give for Scots electing more Tories in one go since I was being taught in P1.

[Frumple]

Honestly, if there's anything that's vaguely something about that election it's that for most of 'em, the winners have been crowed as losers and the losers as winners. I still don't really know what to think on that front. It's like... yes, your gains were great. But you lost. Yes, you lost tons, but you won. Yes, you're a minority government now and lost a lot of seats... but you're still the largest single political party on the island. I get the perspective but it's kinda' offputting, for whatever reason.

[Starver]

(@Hector)

Or the potential (or otherwise) for IndyRef2.   SNP policy being for it, pretty much every other party being against it. And if a Scottish Labour candidate in third place (frexample) thinks it worth 'donating' their similarly-minded supporters to a Scottish Tory (an old enemy in the land of the Auld Enemy, but practically kissing-cousins in the face of Nationalism vs Unionism) then...   Makes me want to analyse the trends between 2015 and 2017 to see where a de-tactified vote allocation might have landed.  Maybe I'll do that tomorrow..

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Honestly, if there's anything that's vaguely something about that election it's that for most of 'em, the winners have been crowed as losers and the losers as winners. I still don't really know what to think on that front. It's like... yes, your gains were great. But you lost. Yes, you lost tons, but you won. Yes, you're a minority government now and lost a lot of seats... but you're still the largest single political party on the island. I get the perspective but it's kinda' offputting, for whatever reason.

I might see it that way if it was a scheduled election, but it wasn't. It was a cynical attempt to take advantage of the polls and shut out even the risk of dissent. They lost those 14 points for it, and it was what ought to have happened under the circumstances. It's not just about getting a majority, after all. The LibDems had no chance of winning a majority either, and it'd be pretty strange to try to portray it as not being a good night for them.

[Frumple]

Oh aye, it was a good night for some and a bad night for others, but at least what narrative's been filtering through to some critter in the middle of bumfuckistan north florida seems to be more... lopsided? Than that. Something along those lines. There's win and then there's win and the former seem to be being portrayed the latter, basically.

[smjjames]

Crossposting because I don't know if you want to talk about it here or in the Europe (EU) thread.

Theres been an incident where a vehichle collided with pedestrians and several casualties in london. The exact circumstances behind it (there have been similar looking incidents where the person was just drunk or is mentally ill) are unknown, but they do have someone in custody.

[Descan]

Honestly, if there's anything that's vaguely something about that election it's that for most of 'em, the winners have been crowed as losers and the losers as winners. I still don't really know what to think on that front. It's like... yes, your gains were great. But you lost. Yes, you lost tons, but you won. Yes, you're a minority government now and lost a lot of seats... but you're still the largest single political party on the island. I get the perspective but it's kinda' offputting, for whatever reason.

Eh, it's about expectations vs reality, and the fact that if May hadn't called the election, she'd have been in a better position right now. This wasn't a *forced* election, she (or her party) just did it.

E: MSH talked about the non-forced nature of it. But the expectations of Labour not doing as well as they did is why it's being touted.

[scriver]

Owlbread! We've missed you so much. Never leave again!