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[VislarRn]

I came to this idea thinking about how powerful linguistic procedural generation could actually be. Since part of DF is trying to simulate the history of important people, I was thinking about a little extra that these historical persons could share in this procedurally generated the world. In RL lot of important people hand down some important life lessons as a quotes that are often cited by past generations. I taught it could be fun to implement this also to DF. Maybe through books, engravings, random tavern conversations, etc.

So, I tested this idea by making a quote generator http://exprandomness.blogspot.com.ee/2017/05/metaquote-generator.html
Of course, in DF it would only work well when these quotes are generated under certain conditions that represent the values of original creator of the quote. However, when playing around with this idea and making that generator, I managed find it nothing impossible.

[neblime]

"knowledge alone could crush all dogma"
not bad hehe
I would like things like this but it will probably end up being pretty arbitrary and random, like the titles creatures that get kills get, they rarely actually make sense.

[StagnantSoul]

"knowledge alone could crush all dogma"
not bad hehe
I would like things like this but it will probably end up being pretty arbitrary and random, like the titles creatures that get kills get, they rarely actually make sense.

I mean I got a giant kea named Deathwing once...

[IndigoFenix]

I'd prefer occasional nonsense over repetition.  Besides, have you seen the real world?  It's not like an idea has to make sense for people to cling to it.

[Arthropleura]

I'd prefer occasional nonsense over repetition.  Besides, have you seen the real world?  It's not like an idea has to make sense for people to cling to it.

Nonsense is fun anyway! =D

THE UNFORTUNATE VALUE OF INSANITY IS OBSCURED BY THE FACT THAT YOU MIGHT END UP WITH GRAY HAIR.

[VislarRn]

I would like things like this but it will probably end up being pretty arbitrary and random, like the titles creatures that get kills get, they rarely actually make sense.

Actually, what surprised me when I was testing out this quote-generating algorithm, is that about 95% of quotes made perfectly sense. And since all those quotes are located inside specific semantic fields (idk. better term for this) it means if I wanted, I could start generating value specific quotes e.g. everything about law and order or everything about social cohesion and love, etc. Right-now all those semantic categories in my test-generator are just mixed.
All those crazy/cryptic/esoteric quotes I added later, just to spice things up. Therefore, I could say that the amount of chaos in this linguistic output is perfectly controllable.

[Bumber]

ALWAYS SEEK HEROISM.

Sounds like what DF priests already say.

GODS FOUND THE MORALITY TO MAKE DEMONS FALL ON YOU.

HFS

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

THE SIGNIFICANCE OF DEATH IS OBSCURED BY THE FACT THAT IT SINGS THE BEST SONGS.

Klingon Shakespeare?

IRRATIONALITY IS BEST KNOWN BY STUPID.

Witty retort.

[Hapchazzard]

Wow, color me impressed. Some of the quotes this thing generated not only make semantic/logical sense, but actually sound wise and akin to something someone from RL history might have said.

"NEVER FORSAKEN PHILOSOPHY BECAUSE IT IS THE BEST CURE FOR STUPIDITY."

"VICTORY LOOKS EASY AT FIRST."

"IT IS BETTER TO BE RIGHTEOUS DESOLATED THAN FALSE COMRADE."

"KNOWLEDGE IS LIKE A DRUG FOR THE SMART."

"POWER IS NEVER UNDERSTOOD."

And finally, this quote:

"WE LIKE TO BE RICH AND WE TRY TO HIDE IT. WE PRETEND TO LIKE KNOWLEDGE AND WE TRY TO SHOW IT TO EVERYONE."

That last one really impressed me.

Now, not all of the generated quotes are as good as this, and these are relatively simple(excluding the last one, arguably), but I could easily see a more complex version of this generator working very nicely in DF.

[RenoFox]

That generator is way better than I could have expected! Not only are quotes like "DISGRACED IS ONE WHO PICKS SUCCESS OVER HEROISM." exceptionally good, but none of the quotes fall into random senselessnes. System like this would be perfect for Dwarf Fortress, in famous quotes or conversations in general.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Agree this is a great idea. One of the annoying things right now that this would fix is that phrases used when expressing your values aren't randomly generated and you end up saying the same thing over and over. This thing is completely DF even with (or, especially with) the occasional hilarious mistake.

"Knowledge defiled the corpse of stupidity". Yeah!

[anewaname]

"Knowledge defiled the corpse of stupidity".

The "corpse of stupidity" is "ignorance that has died" and the "knowledge" that "defiled" is what which "did things" to that "corpse" in a bad way.

This is an example of an "unhealthy loss of innocence" or "bad wisdom", the stuff that leaves people with mental trauma and that sort of thing currently called post traumatic stress disorder.

Urist was a gentle migrant child and enjoyed his work in the pastures, caring for the animals without realizing why the animals were being kept, but when the overseer ordered the slaughter of most of the livestock, Urist never could view his people or his beef stew the same. "Knowledge defiled the corpse of stupidity".

[Roofless]

It is ok, even when it drops the ball it's hillarious:
PHILOSOPHY ALONE COULD CRUSH ALL VAGUENESS.
IT IS BETTER TO BE HONORABLE DESOLATED THAN FALSE COUSIN.
NEVER ABANDON KNOWLEDGE OR LIE WILL BRING YOU TOMORROW.
OUR MEANING OF LIFE IS COURAGE TO MAKE ETERNITY COMMIT A SIN.

Or totally dwarfy:
on moods
MADNESS TRANSFORMS WISHES.
on tantrum spirals
THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF PEOPLE - BITCHY AND IMPATIENT.
FEAR THOSE WHO ARE TOO EMOTIONAL.
on nobles
CURSED BE THOSE WHO CHOOSE BEING NOBLE AGAINST BEING THE WORSHIPPERS OF KNOWLEDGE.
on military tactics
LOOSER IS THE ONE WHO PICKS SUCCESS OVER COURAGE.

[☼Another☼]

These are actually pretty good - this is the sample I got:

The Good:

I PAY DEEP RESPECT TO TRUST BECAUSE IT DEFEATS DESOLATION.

I PAY DEEP RESPECT TO KNOWLEDGE BECAUSE IT IS THE BEST CURE FOR IRRATIONALITY.

SOMETIMES BEING WEALTHY MAKES IT HARDER TO ACCEPT WISDOM.

The Meh:

THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE IN LIFE IS UNITY.

ALL BAD THINGS LIE IN BEING ARROGANT AND SARCASTIC.

GOLD IS HAUNTED BY FAMINE.

SOMETIMES BEING WEALTHY MAKES IT HARDER TO ACCEPT PHILOSOPHY.

RESPECT HONOR.

The Bad:


CARE FOR YOUR TRUSTEE OR YOU SHALL BEAR THE ROLE OF THE FOE.

WE ARE MASKED BY THE PATH TO MAKE ETERNITY FALL ON YOU.

I think it's a cool idea, but it might not necessarily fit Toady's vision.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I think it's a cool idea, but it might not necessarily fit Toady's vision.

Interesting, what makes you say that?
Seems like a perfectly natural extension to the 'state your values' system, only instead of being set phrases that the player eventually gets bored of hearing repeatedly,  they're procedurally generated with tons of scope for weighting according to values, ethics and so on. Fits in perfectly and makes the random arguments you hear around towns much more interesting.

Procedural generation vs set scenes seems to be very much part of the vision.

[☼Another☼]

I'm not saying I think his vision of the game is against this, but given that it seems a natural extension, it may be that Toady thought of it, and decided against it.