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[hector13]

PFP gotta get ready for work too.

TL;DR

Tiruin swapped roles with Lenglon-Shakerag, Lenglon is furious, feels (felt?) Tiruin did something super anti-town by doing so.

Essentially Tiruin has made herself a target, Lengrag can protect themselves, allegedly.

Also, according to OP, only Mafia get a faction/built-in kill.

[hector13]

EBWOP

Also, Tiruin was threatening to reveal something about Lakerag's previous role in order to get Lenglon to stop pressing her over the apparently super anti-town role swap, presumably that the SK-Miller auto that Shakerag has isn't swappable/transferable etc., or reveal a particular ability that isn't/shouldn't (not quite sure on this) be part of a town moveset.

[Persus13]

If she had used it on scum it would have disabled them from using the mafiakill and she would have seen the mafiakill ability she took from them.

That's not true. A scum player would have lost any special mafiakills they have, but BYOR Mafia have a generic mafiakill that any of the mafia can access, so it wouldn't have disabled them.

But seriously Tiruin, why did you use on two players who were behaving fairly town, and not on someone like TBF? WHy did you pick Lengrag?

WEB:

An SK's kill is a factional kill. Just like the Mafiakill MODIFIER is always a present thing--it however does not constitute the Mafia kill. It takes the place of such a kill.
Strangely the rule change is still in play so it's a free action. <_<

is this true? A SK's kill is a factionkill like the mafiakill, and it has it by default unless specifically listed otherwise?

The SK bit is not true, otherwise there would have been a lot more deaths in the 5 SK BYOR.

[Shakerag]

Huh.  Well good job Tiruin.  That pretty much killed my interest in this game.  Cheers!

[webadict]

...
WEB:

An SK's kill is a factional kill. Just like the Mafiakill MODIFIER is always a present thing--it however does not constitute the Mafia kill. It takes the place of such a kill.
Strangely the rule change is still in play so it's a free action. <_<

is this true? A SK's kill is a factionkill like the mafiakill, and it has it by default unless specifically listed otherwise?

100% false.

[webadict]

...
WEB:

An SK's kill is a factional kill. Just like the Mafiakill MODIFIER is always a present thing--it however does not constitute the Mafia kill. It takes the place of such a kill.
Strangely the rule change is still in play so it's a free action. <_<

is this true? A SK's kill is a factionkill like the mafiakill, and it has it by default unless specifically listed otherwise?

100% false.

SKs do not get a factional kill. Mafia do not always have a Mafiakill modifier ability. What rule states any of these? In fact, the first post in the game states directly counter to this.

[Lenglon]

Tiruin - not a real vote, Tir now has the mechanic we had where ending the day with a vote on her is a good thing, and TDS just took the last vote off her.

[Lenglon]

TDS - as we said before, the reason our role was so crazy-strong was the effect of combining shake's and my roles. Our abilities had some extremely good synergy and were boosted even further by being two players fused together. The resulting role we had benefitted a LOT from being on our doubled-up slot, and believe it or not, we STILL havent claimed everything it could do.
My portion of the role was an infinate action mechanic, a defensive mechanic, and a cluster of 1-shots. only one of my one-shots have been used (the fusion), the rest are still available and are very strong in a LYLO environment. Shake's side of the role ALREADY was designed as a LYLO breaker pre-fusion. by combining them we were absurdly powerful, able to make a crazy number of actions while protected multiple ways and collecting a large number of votes. Tir, not being two players at once, is unable to get the full benefits of the role, and will be vulnerable to certain things at LYLO that we would not have been. giving her an extra vote or two would help her gain most of the power we used to have, but she still can't quite go 1v3 (or more) with good odds of success like we could even if she gets extra votes.
The best thing that could happen would be if my (now hers) fusion 1-shot gets reset and she uses it on us to make us into a tripled-up-slot, which would also aleviate my concern about her being a 3rd-party just trying to centralize power in herself since it would make her alignment mine. But I have my doubts that such would be even possible since ive seen no such 1-shot-reset-ability in anyone's kit.

[TolyK]

Hold on a second. Lenglon, Shakerag, do you BOTH still have the ability I sent you? Please check. Or is it shared between you? ...

Tiruin: You've claimed that you were blocked but (according to 4mask) I saw you act. At the very least, I'd like a full description of what you did last night.

This post, among others, leads me to believe that TDS and 4mask are mafia.

Ok here's my previous claim [my claim that Lenglon-Shakerag has]. I've added falsified information that Lenglon-Shakerag can easily sift through.
I will NOT claim what their role is for benefits of their survival [ok fine I will but I'll censor everything important, from names to exacts of x-shots]
This was Tiruin (With custom formatting--all are true, but changed and reverse-detailed for benefits to avoid exact manipulation {ie name/ability recognition manipulation}

{Cardcaptor Sakura}
 
(Auto) Balance: You have cannot use the same ability twice in a row.
(Auto) Clow Cards: You can combine your abilities depending on the requirements listed below.
> If you can name the rolename of the target, do both of {ACTION X/Y}
> If you can name an ability of the target's, do both of {ACTION Y/Z}
> If you can name a player other than yourself who actions the target, do both of {ACTION M/F}
(Night) The Mirror [target]: You learn the alignment of the target.
(Night) The Illusion [target]: You learn a random ability of the target.
(Night) The Wood [target]: Block the target.
(Night) The Light [target]: Disable a random action from the target.
(Night) The Watery [target]: Redirect the target.
(Night) The Jump [target]: Track the target and see who they action.
(Night) The Maze [target]: Delay the target's action until the next cycle.
(Night) The Flower [target]: You hide.   
(Night) The Shield [target]: Protect the target
(Night) The Shadow [target]: Watch the target and learn who actioned them.
(Night) The Sword [target]: Kill the target {REQUIREMENT NEEDED to be enacted}
(X-Shot) The Erase [target]: Switch roles with a player.

Tiruin, if I show you an ability that you already had, will you say if its yours or someone else's?

TolyK:
Still waiting to hear about your plan.

Alright, here's my Initial Plan to potentially make everyone win.
Based on the info that:
- MAFIA has a 1-shot "mafiakill" called "Monster Within" that converts folks to Mafia. (This info is from Flabort).
- I have an ability to copy abilities.
- I have an ability to distribute abilities.

Requirements:
- Cooperation between town and mafia. (Yeah, I know. But seriously, read it out, then please note the pitfalls as you see them.)

THE PLAN.
I make multiple copies of the "Monster Within" one-shot Mafiakill (thus making it multi-shot), and give ONE COPY to a mafia player ("M").
"M" uses "Monster Within" on a townie (A) that isn't me. M dies, A becomes mafia. I give a copy of "Monster Within" to A.
"A" uses "Monster Within" on a townie (B) that isn't me. A dies, B becomes mafia. I give a copy of "Monster Within" to B.
This goes on as all the remaining townies (except for me) are converted to Mafia (and all-but-the-last-one die).
Finally, final Mafia player uses "Monster Within" on me. I become mafia, no more town are left, and everyone currently alive (as well as FoU) wins.


In preparation, I'm testing Flabort, Tiruin, and Lengrag. I'd strongly suggest one of the Lengrag target me or Jack and join our little chat, but that's not completely necessary.

[Tiruin]

PFP 2am why.

Lengrag: you know you can discuss this with Tiruin privately, right? Well, semi-privately, with Jack and me, but at least we seem to be more trustworthy than others.

@Shakerag's q: I'll write it up once I get out of bed. Tiruin caused a bit of a mess though and I wanna try to understand it... -.-

# of in this post: 1 and counting.

...first off, I'm going to vote Lenglon-Shakerag because being a SK-miller with a miller ability that doesn't get moved with a role swap seems just a bit too convenient. Especially if the role's main mechanics involve massive LYLO-breaking (well, at least that's what you two have claimed). As far as I can tell, you're like a watcher but you wait for enough players to die rather than for a certain day, and then you mass-kill people or do whatever it is that lets you win vs 3 other people. I can't think of any reasonable reason that any set of powers like that is town. In addition, your response feels weird, especially this post that feels like a major over-reaction. I mean yeah, you lost a nice role, but it still ended up with someone who you ...seem to think is town? and it's understandable that you would be really annoyed, but something about your response feels like you're frustrated scum.

I'll post more later once I've actually had sleep.

Tiruin: I'd like to see at least a partial role-claim for your new role. Why were Shakerag-Lenglon so confident about their prospects of winning against multiple other people? When you say that certain powers seem be from Shakerag originally, what do you mean? Why do you think it's suspicious?

It's one of the night abilities. Makes them immune to kill/inspects.

WEB:

An SK's kill is a factional kill. Just like the Mafiakill MODIFIER is always a present thing--it however does not constitute the Mafia kill. It takes the place of such a kill.
Strangely the rule change is still in play so it's a free action. <_<

is this true? A SK's kill is a factionkill like the mafiakill, and it has it by default unless specifically listed otherwise?

The SK bit is not true, otherwise there would have been a lot more deaths in the 5 SK BYOR.

Actually the SK can choose not to kill I do recall a game where the SK one...without killing anyone.
Either way, DESPITE the weird wording I have, L/S's attitude is very consistent and I'm reading all green on then.

Also my shame in the last hours is now being relized more. Aaah.

Hold on a second. Lenglon, Shakerag, do you BOTH still have the ability I sent you? Please check. Or is it shared between you? ...

Tiruin: You've claimed that you were blocked but (according to 4mask) I saw you act. At the very least, I'd like a full description of what you did last night.

This post, among others, leads me to believe that TDS and 4mask are mafia.

Ok here's my previous claim [my claim that Lenglon-Shakerag has]. I've added falsified information that Lenglon-Shakerag can easily sift through.
I will NOT claim what their role is for benefits of their survival [ok fine I will but I'll censor everything important, from names to exacts of x-shots]
This was Tiruin (With custom formatting--all are true, but changed and reverse-detailed for benefits to avoid exact manipulation {ie name/ability recognition manipulation}

{Cardcaptor Sakura}
 
(Auto) Balance: You have cannot use the same ability twice in a row.
(Auto) Clow Cards: You can combine your abilities depending on the requirements listed below.
> If you can name the rolename of the target, do both of {ACTION X/Y}
> If you can name an ability of the target's, do both of {ACTION Y/Z}
> If you can name a player other than yourself who actions the target, do both of {ACTION M/F}
(Night) The Mirror [target]: You learn the alignment of the target.
(Night) The Illusion [target]: You learn a random ability of the target.
(Night) The Wood [target]: Block the target.
(Night) The Light [target]: Disable a random action from the target.
(Night) The Watery [target]: Redirect the target.
(Night) The Jump [target]: Track the target and see who they action.
(Night) The Maze [target]: Delay the target's action until the next cycle.
(Night) The Flower [target]: You hide.   
(Night) The Shield [target]: Protect the target
(Night) The Shadow [target]: Watch the target and learn who actioned them.
(Night) The Sword [target]: Kill the target {REQUIREMENT NEEDED to be enacted}
(X-Shot) The Erase [target]: Switch roles with a player.

Tiruin, if I show you an ability that you already had, will you say if its yours or someone else's?

2.

Ok seriously. First you don't follow up a case you made D1 (as in, go silent for the ever between), Second is you ignoremy last note on 'hey I didn't get N2 anything from you', and third is I have received a grand total of NOTHING in changes by PMor otherwise of mention in regards to your timing of menioting that subtle 'Tiruin N2' stuff buried in a quote that isn't overt in your writing.

So just go ahead and do it, because you can't 'show me what I already had' unless you can actually modify the role making. Which is the start of the GAAAAME. -.-

Also I'd love to see you fake-name better than Cardcaptor Sakura.

Hold on a second. Lenglon, Shakerag, do you BOTH still have the ability I sent you? Please check. Or is it shared between you? ...

TELL ME MOAR :V because all these ability names I've got are in lieu with the role names.

TolyK:
Still waiting to hear about your plan.

Alright, here's my Initial Plan to potentially make everyone win.
Based on the info that:
- MAFIA has a 1-shot "mafiakill" called "Monster Within" that converts folks to Mafia. (This info is from Flabort).
- I have an ability to copy abilities.
- I have an ability to distribute abilities.

Requirements:
- Cooperation between town and mafia. (Yeah, I know. But seriously, read it out, then please note the pitfalls as you see them.)

THE PLAN.
I make multiple copies of the "Monster Within" one-shot Mafiakill (thus making it multi-shot), and give ONE COPY to a mafia player ("M").
"M" uses "Monster Within" on a townie (A) that isn't me. M dies, A becomes mafia. I give a copy of "Monster Within" to A.
"A" uses "Monster Within" on a townie (B) that isn't me. A dies, B becomes mafia. I give a copy of "Monster Within" to B.
This goes on as all the remaining townies (except for me) are converted to Mafia (and all-but-the-last-one die).
Finally, final Mafia player uses "Monster Within" on me. I become mafia, no more town are left, and everyone currently alive (as well as FoU) wins.

. . .That's the wierdest Mafia'kill' I've seen.
How's about you use that copy ability on me instead. I've got a one-shot thingy that makes me CONJOIN into people, sharing THEIR alignment and my role. So that being--I can blob over onto Lenglag and get this Katamari to victory.
Also I can't die or get inspected right if someone votes me even myself for one phase that can be reset per cycle, so yeah >_>
That's a bit of the thing that Lenglon went all :O about.

    1-shot, mafiakill (gained N2): Monster Within: Convert target to your alignment, if successful you die and flip as their role + alignment, they gain this role.

Tiruin: You've claimed that you were blocked but (according to 4mask) I saw you act. At the very least, I'd like a full description of what you did last night.

This post, among others, leads me to believe that TDS and 4mask are mafia.

Details, TolyK. You're doing that thing again.
Also I don't see how that makes sense--he did a thing in some strange wording that somehow made sense to him but went against something he knows, so hence vote.

[Tiruin]

But seriously Tiruin, why did you use on two players who were behaving fairly town, and not on someone like TBF? WHy did you pick Lengrag?

Because they can both use my abilities fairly well >_>

And I just detailed it waaaay back there.

Huh.  Well good job Tiruin.  That pretty much killed my interest in this game.  Cheers!

-_-
I'm done.


Blame me more, you jerk.

[TolyK]

Tiruin, I've sent my action sequence to Webadict.

Replying to your post:

I've given up on my T1 case because I can definitively (to me) see if you were lying or not, right now.
And yes I can show you.

Re: Copy your "blob" one-shot: I tried doing that to LengRag last night, it failed (it seems most actions failed against LengRag) so currently I ruled that out. However, that would be a more sure everyone-wins method if exactly that could be done.

I'm also doing an experiment with Flabort.


Regarding who the mafia actually is, I haven't spent too much time looking into that (yes, I know how silly that sounds), so I'm deferring to my own judgement and [undisclosed source]. Who the mafia is, at this moment, is less interesting to me than figuring out how to break the system.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin, I've sent my action sequence to Webadict.

Replying to your post:

I've given up on my T1 case because I can definitively (to me) see if you were lying or not, right now.
And yes I can show you.

Re: Copy your "blob" one-shot: I tried doing that to LengRag last night, it failed (it seems most actions failed against LengRag) so currently I ruled that out. However, that would be a more sure everyone-wins method if exactly that could be done.

I'm also doing an experiment with Flabort.


Regarding who the mafia actually is, I haven't spent too much time looking into that (yes, I know how silly that sounds), so I'm deferring to my own judgement and [undisclosed source]. Who the mafia is, at this moment, is less interesting to me than figuring out how to break the system.

The only actions that can actually fail, inasfar as I can read from what I know, is KILLS and INSPECTS.
Do it to me because I know there's nothing stopping it here inasfar as I can read :v

Tell me what you need to be able to copy it.
Because HSakerag's one post there made me nearly just go ugh. Because it's like Doll's, except extremely less helpful, and a lot more wow out of character that stung me like Brutus stabs Caesar. It didn't kill him. But the shock and impact helped a lot with that.
And the 'ugh' means 'copy paste the whole damn role without doing anything because I cannot get in ANYWAY the emotional aspect of 'SUPER BAD ANTI TOWN MOVE' because I "NERFED THEM".

Regarding who the mafia actually is, I haven't spent too much time looking into that (yes, I know how silly that sounds), so I'm deferring to my own judgement and [undisclosed source]. Who the mafia is, at this moment, is less interesting to me than figuring out how to break the system.

...And your role isn't broken?
In all honesty, I've no idea how 'broken' Shakerag's role was even if there is that miller ability--it can't be swpaped or otherwise, sure. I still can't get how 'nerfed' I made Lenglag other than removing their ability to not be killed or inspected. It's a miller ability? so what.

Then I get emotionally attacked just like how doll made a glaring generalization with a ton of charmlessness.

To think the brightest minds match in EQ too. >_>

[Lenglon]

Tir: MY defensive mechanic ALSO causes actions to give a "fail" message. MY defensive one, not Shake's, is why your PROTECT failed last night. Mine affects ALL actions, friendly and/or hostile ones.

TolyK: I WOULD be willing to go for the "everyone wins" strat, but you messed up your plan for how to end it. Your current plan will cause YOU to lose. Mafia win when they cannot be opposed anymore. can you solo-oppose the mafia? if not, then you will lose before your own conversion happens.
HOWEVER: if you are ALREADY either mafia or survivor, then your plan will work.

TolyK: Are you mafia? If so, I will NOT attempt to harm you, but I need to know for your plan to work. in that case just convert Tiruin last, because she CAN solo-oppose the scumteam.

Alternate plan - katamari - will fail as soon as the katamari becomes scum-aligned. we would need to have others fuse to the katamari, not the katamari fuse to others. other than that, it is a MUCH better idea.

TolyK - I can tell you how to make your actions succeed when aimed at Tir, but I need to know if you can copy a Used 1-shot and gain a use for it, otherwise there'd be no point in revealing a hole in her defenses.

[Lenglon]

TolyK: Why do want a private chat with me so bad?