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[Shakerag]

Hector13:
What.
Hector, we're the same player.
Are you seriously voting us because one half of us put a qualifier on a plan the other half of us proposed? immediately after its proposition too.
That... I literally can't make that into an alignment tell of ANY kind. You'd have to somehow WIFOM yourself into me and him having a shared slot with different alignments.
having said that...

It is odd that no one really called out me voting for myself.  But, basically, it is advantageous to me to end the day with at least one vote on me.  I won't say more on that until D2 at least.

Feel free to leave your vote sitting there.

Admittedly, I did kind of WIFOM myself into us being a role with two alignments earlier...

[Shakerag]

Hector13... Dude, if you stop voting for me I'll vote myself.  There was no threat there.  Did I or didn't I end d1 voting for myself?

[hector13]

Hector13: Why is your state so goddamned hot right now?

Just to vex me, specifically. It's been reasonably cool (relatively, for the time of year) this week, only starting to push 90 and being stupidly humid on the one day I'm outside to see my first pro baseball game. Single-A, but watcha gonna do.

And secondly, why would I want to go back to my state?  Three years without a state budget and counting...

To be with your own, poor driving people. To be fair I'm only following my wife's bizarre license plate xenophobia. She especially dislikes Illinois ones.


Now that I've got the important questions out the way... y'all can wait 'til Tuesday for me to make a proper post. Busy-ass weekend, and tomorrow is chore day. I might get something up tomorrow, depending on what my wife does in the afternoon, but I might just use that time to terrorize digital people, 'cause god damn socializing is exhausting.

Quick summary from a quick read through of things: FoU is annoying me with the Papyrus RP and still not responding to stuff from D1, TBF is being silly, though I guess reasonably so since my long accusatory post against flabsy and Lenglon was a post made upon me waking up, and wake up time is awful. I may need to read over that post again and explain morning!hector thought processes. Lenglon is responding strongly to my pressure vote, happy happy joy joy, gives me something to do later.

Please don't post 9 pages of stuff tomorrow.

[hector13]

Oh I forgot.

Porkies is Cockney rhyming slang for lies, not necessarily egregious ones like Teebs suggested. Just... general untruths, big and small.

[flabort]

@flabort: Yeah, it's a regional sort of slang for "telling really big/egregious lies".

I am saddened that you think I would lie, but I guess that is part of the game and in previous games I have fake-claimed once or twice. But I assure you, I have not lied in this game, though I may have forgotten facts, missed details, or glazed over vital clues, which would reflect on my posts.

Flabort:. We are fairly defensible.  Exact details are need to know.

Understood. Speaking of which, regarding you/lengon's idea of my getting a copy of your fusion ability, I got my answers from Wuba now. I could get abilities associated with your role(s) from you/lenglon if you targeted me, BUT not the already-used one-shot (assuming I worded the question right). Also, the two of you DO count as one player as far as my ability is concerned.

Please don't post 9 pages of stuff tomorrow.

Agreed.

Hector13... Dude, if you stop voting for me I'll vote myself.  There was no threat there.  Did I or didn't I end d1 voting for myself?

You want votes on you, but not so many that you get lynched? I am intrigued, but won't dig further into this particular line of questioning. It lends credence to the idea that Wuba is an evil genius using us as guinea pigs, as part of his plan to take over the world, though.

[Jack A T]

Joy.  Few flips, little confirmation.  If doll was interested enough to take actions, they were undermined.  Redirects?
doll's flip is basically the first half of his claim with a redacted entry (possibly the upon-death auto?).

Little real content tonight.  It's past midnight and I'm somewhat baffled by what's going on so far in the day.

doll did not visit me (and he probably didn't visit anyone else, since the planned kills didn't even happen) but flabort did visit doll. doll's stated plan was to visit everyone and since he flipped town with the role he claimed I see no reason to doubt him. To me, it seems likely that flabort blocked doll.

TDS: It's worth noting that for doll to have taken both kills, he would have had to use his infinite actions one-shot, which would make him unblockable.  Is there a reason why you rushed this vote out?

I believe I lowered my chances of getting my vote stolen, so I have it today, where it matters more than yesterday.

TolyK: I still really don't understand how this means not voting D1 was a good idea.  Substantial sacrifice (no vote D1 plus unfriendly attention) in exchange for altering the chance (not clear which way, considering how much attention it brought to your vote) of being hit with a vote interference effect N1.

Also, more general question for anyone:. How many BYORs had scum who could revive?

Shakerag: Wuba BYORS...for self-revives alone, BYORs 14 (2 scum, one from each team), 10, 7, 6.3, and might be one further back.  8 had one mafioso with the ability to fake death and revive.  Reviving others also pops up.  Not an uncommon ability.

Oh, and, no that's not permanent, but I can trigger it to be. 

If you make it permanent and then die, what happens?  Would the votes return to their rightful owners?

Jack AT
Your early suspect, Tea, is still alive, as am I and Fallacy who you voted for later in the day. It seems like the mafia purposefully avoided killing your suspects.

flabort: Huh?  Did you cut part of this post at some point?
Webadict: Say a player with multiple targets is redirected to a single target.  Would they end up only targeting the single target?

[webadict]

Because I've been asked this question multiple times now: Lenglon-Shakerag is one player. Any action you use on them is for one player. Lenglon is no longer a player. Neither is Shakerag. Lenglon-Shakerag is all that remains. There is essentially one less player.

@Jack A T: All actions are redirected, unless actions permit otherwise.

[hector13]

Hector:WTF, dude?  WTF?  You aren't making any sense with the whole thing you're going on about.

Teebs: Also forgot this: what doesn't make sense? Specifics, man.

Will wait for a response on this prior to my über response.

[FallacyofUrist]

Quick summary from a quick read through of things: FoU is still not responding to stuff from D1.

Like I said, it's going to be awhile before I respond to that many questions, nyah.

On the other hand, nyah...

Starting to wonder if Fallacy is a lyncher/assassin tbh.

Because I'm focusing on only one person, nyah? Well, that's my play style, nyah. I look around until I find someone scummy, and then I focus on them to the exclusion of most else, nyah. Mainly because I'm bad at focusing on multiple people at once, nyah.

I do remember one of your questions from day one off the top of my head, nyah. To build on this earlier answer, one way I could improve my day game would be to practice focusing on more than one person at once, nyah. To respond to the second part of that question, good day play is actively scum hunting suspicious players, nyah. And doing it well, nyah. Y'know, with a lack of fallacies and whatnot, nyah. Telling you who's exhibiting a good day game currently will need me to read through what we have of Day 2 so far, nyah.

[TolyK]

Am strapped for time, did really shallow read, Pfp.

I am voting Flabort N times to prove I didn't steal votes (I only have 1 vote).

Shakerag/Lenglon: Feel free too choose someone you trust a lot and join in.

Oh, apparently vote steal was random. Still: I stand by my logic. Day 1 vote doesn't really matter if everyone's on board, and I've said who I'd have voted.

TolyK still isn't scumhunting, nyah. Regardless of his role abilities, if he's pro-town, he should be scumhunting, nyah.

Sure thing, nyah. When I have time, nyah. Why are you ending sentence with, nyah?
And you seriously are literally focusing on me, still? I mean, sure, you can be suspicious and ask me questions, but your position hasn't changed at all, and I haven't seen (maybe haven't noticed...) how you've actually done anything substantive yourself. And I think I'm not the first person to call it out, either.

PFP.

[Tea]

I do remember one of your questions from day one off the top of my head, nyah. To build on this earlier answer, one way I could improve my day game would be to practice focusing on more than one person at once, nyah. To respond to the second part of that question, good day play is actively scum hunting suspicious players, nyah. And doing it well, nyah. Y'know, with a lack of fallacies and whatnot, nyah. Telling you who's exhibiting a good day game currently will need me to read through what we have of Day 2 so far, nyah.

You're mixing me up with Hector. I think your continued reluctance to think of the game in terms of who may be scum (besides one person) in tandem with your focus on theory discussions of what's good play that are very divorced from the game itself, is scummy and a waste of time. I don't remember you being this austere or tunnely when you were town in Two-Fold C9++ and I find it hard to believe that your play has regressed so much in two years.

[FallacyofUrist]

I think your continued reluctance to think of the game in terms of who may be scum (besides one person) in tandem with your focus on theory discussions of what's good play that are very divorced from the game itself, is scummy and a waste of time. I don't remember you being this austere or tunnely when you were town in Two-Fold C9++ and I find it hard to believe that your play has regressed so much in two years.

Two years, nyah? Two years is a long time for a human, nyah. Especially a relatively young one, nyah.

I'd suggest you take a look at my more recent games, nyah.

[1] Sure thing, nyah. When I have time, nyah. [2] Why are you ending sentence with, nyah?
[3] And you seriously are literally focusing on me, still? [4] I mean, sure, you can be suspicious and ask me questions, but your position hasn't changed at all, and I haven't seen (maybe haven't noticed...) how you've actually done anything substantive yourself. [5] And I think I'm not the first person to call it out, either.

[1]: Wonderful, nyah.
[2]: Why does it m-matter to you, nyah?
[3]: Yes, nyah.
[4]: Aside from scumhunting you, nyah? Does scum hunting not count as substantive, nyah?
[5]: Maybe, nyah. Does it change anything about your guilt, nyah?

[Jack A T]

@Jack A T: All actions are redirected, unless actions permit otherwise.

Webadict: Hm.  If in one night two kill actions hit a player with a one-shot autorevive, what happens?
Fallacy: There are two things that are remarkable about your play: how passive it is and how image-focused it is.

You've talked about how you focus on one person.  There is no focus on one person: you're not pursuing TolyK.  Ever since you finally made a case against him (something that took prodding to even get), you've done almost nothing whatsoever.  Almost all of the content you've given since then was a shift from thinking TolyK was a cult leader to guessing he might be an arsonist.  Since making a case you were pushed into making (and one centred around a cult leader allegation you've largely dropped), you have put almost no effort into pursuing TolyK.

Your case was your second step out of RVS.  Your first step was a read list.  A read list reflects its writer's distinct observations of the game.  Reads are personal.  14 of your reads were a loose activity/content order, with little indication that you had been thinking about what each player was doing and how it indicated alignment.  The 15th, on the player you had 'focused' on, was a shrug.  For a loose, off-the-cuff read list, only one read clearly existed at any significant level before you started writing, and the rest look to be there just to fill read slots.
You were busy, and you talk about how you focus on one player to the exclusion of others.  Alright.  None of this justifies 14 empty reads being given.

What have you been putting your effort into?

Well, I'm pushing it now.
<snip>
You'll notice I've started pressing your case now.

Telling TolyK that you're pressing a case against him.  (You did for a moment.)

Also, if I was an assassin, I probably wouldn't... actually, I might try to get my target killed by town in this manner, nyah. By convincing the town that my target is scummy so they get shot, nyah.

Telling everyone that you're trying to convince us that TolyK is scummy.  (While quite aware of the negative reaction your cult leader case garnered, you have done nothing since to try to convince anyone that you're right.)

Aside from scumhunting you, nyah?

Telling TolyK that you're scumhunting.  (You haven't been.)

There's a pattern here.  You're giving an image of yourself as a canny, focused scumhunter, working to convince us that you've caught scum.  You're telling a story in which you work hard to press cases, scumhunt, and prove your case.

One piece of advice: show, don't tell.

A few questions:
*How much confidence do you have in your non-TolyK reads?
*In fact, give some detail on the non-TolyK reads.
*Why have you done so little to try to convince us of TolyK's guilt?
*What makes you think arsonist?
*Do you have any other suspects?

[Tea]

I may be biased but I feel like taking away my vote is more likely to come from mafia than not mafia and I would welcome people proving that they didn't steal mine via doing whatever the double voting format is.

Ok just so you don't keep freaking out over this it was me.  I stole your vote.  And 4mask's vote.  Technically, we tried to steal everyone's vote, but I think we had a very, very sub 1% chance.

Oh yay the person that disenfranchised me is the same one arguing that they don't care enough about votes to have voted yesterday. :/ Please take some advice from Uncle Ben.

Fallacy - I don't intend to read games besides this one. I do, however, intend to do everything in my power to ensure you don't survive to endgame if you keep playing this way tho.

[FallacyofUrist]

Fallacy: There are two things that are remarkable about your play: how passive it is and how image-focused it is.

[1] You've talked about how you focus on one person.  There is no focus on one person: you're not pursuing TolyK.  Ever since you finally made a case against him (something that took prodding to even get), you've done almost nothing whatsoever.  Almost all of the content you've given since then was a shift from thinking TolyK was a cult leader to guessing he might be an arsonist.  Since making a case you were pushed into making (and one centred around a cult leader allegation you've largely dropped), you have put almost no effort into pursuing TolyK.

Your case was your second step out of RVS.  Your first step was a read list.  A read list reflects its writer's distinct observations of the game.  Reads are personal.  14 of your reads were a loose activity/content order, with little indication that you had been thinking about what each player was doing and how it indicated alignment.  The 15th, on the player you had 'focused' on, was a shrug.  For a loose, off-the-cuff read list, only one read clearly existed at any significant level before you started writing, and the rest look to be there just to fill read slots.
[2] You were busy, and you talk about how you focus on one player to the exclusion of others.  Alright.  None of this justifies 14 empty reads being given.

[3] What have you been putting your effort into?

Well, I'm pushing it now.
<snip>
You'll notice I've started pressing your case now.

Telling TolyK that you're pressing a case against him.  (You did for a moment.)

Also, if I was an assassin, I probably wouldn't... actually, I might try to get my target killed by town in this manner, nyah. By convincing the town that my target is scummy so they get shot, nyah.

Telling everyone that you're trying to convince us that TolyK is scummy.  (While quite aware of the negative reaction your cult leader case garnered, [5] you have done nothing since to try to convince anyone that you're right.)

Aside from scumhunting you, nyah?

Telling TolyK that you're scumhunting.  (You haven't been.)

[4] There's a pattern here.  You're giving an image of yourself as a canny, focused scumhunter, working to convince us that you've caught scum.  You're telling a story in which you work hard to press cases, scumhunt, and prove your case.

One piece of advice: show, don't tell.

A few questions:
[6] *How much confidence do you have in your non-TolyK reads?
[7] *In fact, give some detail on the non-TolyK reads.
[8] *Why have you done so little to try to convince us of TolyK's guilt?
[9] *What makes you think arsonist?
[10] *Do you have any other suspects?

[1]: I assure you, I would be questioning TolyK a lot more if he responded to me more, nyah. My vote is still on TolyK since I think he is scum, nyah. So far, he hasn't really countered my allegations, so my vote remains on him, nyah. If he tried to counter my allegations(besides by actually scumhunting, anyway), I would respond and do that pursuing thing you're talking about, nyah. You have given me food for thought, though, nyah. If TolyK doesn't try to counter my attack, I can look through his posts of Day 2 and demonstrate why he's scummy, again, from those, nyah.

[2]: A detailed reads list would take a lot of time for me, nyah. I could look into every player's activity and give my more detailed opinion of them, but it would mean turning my focus away from TolyK, my target, nyah.

[3]: TolyK, and some cursory examination of what's currently happening, nyah.

[4]: Canny, no, nyah. Focused, yes, nyah. Yes, I'm trying to get everybody to lynch TolyK, nyah. Actually, here's a question for everybody: what is your read of TolyK, nyah? It seems to me that I'm the only one paying attention to him, nyah.

[5]: Did you miss the post where I made a case on TolyK based on his lack of scumhunting, nyah?

[6]: Not much, nyah. Some of my reads are solid, but it's not the majority of them, nyah. Even with a cursory examination, I'm fairly sure that you and hector13 are active scumhunters, and likely town, nyah. The rest, I'm not as sure about beyond general impressions, nyah. A more thorough examination would be ideal here, but that's going to be such a headache, nyah. However, I'd like to note that even when I create a thorough investigation on everybody, I'm still going to have several null reads because of the lack of activity(or more specifically, meaningful posts), nyah. I mean, when was the last time TheDarkStar posted, nyah?

[7]: Some detail given, nyah. Not enough though, nyah.

[8]: Is his lack of scumhunting not evidence enough, nyah? I did cite that in a case post, nyah. Do you not think a lack of scumhunting is scummy, nyah?
Are you defending your cult leader, nyah? 

[9]: I've since moved on to general scum read, leaning third party, nyah. Leaning third party because I think mafia would be trying to fake scum hunt more than this, nyah.

[10]: Not as of yet, nyah.

Fallacy - I don't intend to read games besides this one. I do, however, intend to do everything in my power to ensure you don't survive to endgame if you keep playing this way tho.

Oh, you played in Two-Fold C9++, nyah?

What does it matter, as long as I'm scumhunting, nyah?