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[Pozzai]

Pozzai
Tea's play in #438-449 appears as really authentic to my eye, which is like the postmodernist version of town.
I'm slightly less enthused about Jack's play in that section, but it's more that he just feels disconnected and alienated from what went on and he didn't really 'get' the early game that tea was playing and that it's just a case of town players shooting past each other because they're each going a different way seems pretty plausible and likely to me.

I'm less happy about Jack than Tea (as town) in general though, but that's just because I'm fairly happy with tea as town or town-identifiable scum.

 See, I do kind of agree with this to some point, but at the same time there was a fair few small factors that annoyed me slightly at the same time.

 First and foremost that is the first interactions where she actually seems, in lack of better words, emotionally attached to the game, you know just after I said that was an issue of mine. Maybe I should just have waited for a bit longer with mentioning that, but at the same time I didn't want to make a case on her in the weekend right up near day end.
  Outside that, I feel like if Jack was as much of a priority to her as she lets know, she'd have interacted with him about his readslist and the disagreements to get a firmer grasp of where they were coming from. I do have some thoughts on this but will await Tea to post before saying what they are.
 And finally, I feel like her "some townsided 3P BS role" read on me is..... Strange? Like there's no explanation as to why I'd be (lets say for simplicity) an survivalist > SK. Both need to put in a moderate amount of effort into the game to avoid being lynched, while not being "obvious town" so they get shot.

[Pozzai]

@Doll

 When you say "use a and b" multiple times, you mean, "b and c", right? Because otherwise there's something I'm missing O.o

[doll]

And finally, I feel like her "some townsided 3P BS role" read on me is..... Strange? Like there's no explanation as to why I'd be (lets say for simplicity) an survivalist > SK.

Survivors are scum.

Anyway, Tea has a townread on you

I would be pretty surprised if Pozzai wasn't town, or some third party BS that's pretty close to town.

They just leave open the potential for town-ally roles.

I can't comment on your meta-read of tea but my interpretation of the Tea->Jack interaction in that section is that she burnt out the last of what she was basing her push|investigation on and still didn't have anything useful, and so felt like she couldn't really chase Jack up but at the same time hadn't reached a resolution for whether or not she would even want to lynch him.

@Doll

 When you say "use a and b" multiple times, you mean, "b and c", right? Because otherwise there's something I'm missing O.o

Yeah that would be correct, my bad.

[Pozzai]

@Tiruin

 Can you walk me through your TBF thing a bit.
Are they obvlivious to their posting style, just as one alignment, or is it a general thing? What is your experience with them?

 Also, do you have any opinion however small about Lenglon, if so what?

[doll]

TBF is chronically useless.
I haven't played that many games but I haven't played one where TBF was useful or productive.
The recent Fallacy's BYOR2 is a good example of where, as confirmed town, TBF added nothing the entire game and was in no small part responsible for the town's loss.

[Pozzai]

I can't comment on your meta-read of tea but my interpretation of the Tea->Jack interaction in that section is that she burnt out the last of what she was basing her push|investigation on and still didn't have anything useful, and so felt like she couldn't really chase Jack up but at the same time hadn't reached a resolution for whether or not she would even want to lynch him.

@Doll

 When you say "use a and b" multiple times, you mean, "b and c", right? Because otherwise there's something I'm missing O.o

Yeah that would be correct, my bad.

 Thing is she went like "I think I just want to discuss reads" in one of her posts, and didn't do that with Jack despite them being "important to figure out"

 Like I feel like she's saying a lot of good/decent things in those posts, but kind of, doesn't act upon them. Ugh, I feel like I should just take a Tea-off day in my mind and return to her later >_>


 Also that last post is kind of harsh

[doll]

Pozzai
How do you feel about Persus13?
It seems like you're reading him as scum, but I'd disagree with that.
He shared my concerns with specific problems with your play. He didn't have the option of making you flip by killing you like I did, so he had to chase up on them by repeatedly asking questions and hoping you would eventually comply.
The case was 'weak' because it would be hard to get you lynched over it. There definitely was something wrong, but it was a lack of communication. In essence, (this is my perspective) being deliberately unreadable is the next worse thing to being scum.

I've read Persus13 as town. Do you have any particular concerns outside of his interaction with you?
re: TBF

That said, your case implies that I have the power to stop TBF from being himself, which is odd, because I do have that power, but it seems to manifest itself into bold red text, so here's where the deal starts and ends: I think TBF is a scum player by merit. Just as an additional player. He literally brings game down a player on start. And until he decides to play nicely with the other children, maybe I'll start giving him the respect of not instavoting him. But I am gonna maintain with a 99% likelihood that that simply won't happen until he gets thrown out of towns left and right, like some sort of ostracized leper.

[Pozzai]

Pozzai
How do you feel about Persus13?
It seems like you're reading him as scum, but I'd disagree with that.
He shared my concerns with specific problems with your play. He didn't have the option of making you flip by killing you like I did, so he had to chase up on them by repeatedly asking questions and hoping you would eventually comply.
The case was 'weak' because it would be hard to get you lynched over it. There definitely was something wrong, but it was a lack of communication. In essence, (this is my perspective) being deliberately unreadable is the next worse thing to being scum.

I've read Persus13 as town. Do you have any particular concerns outside of his interaction with you?
re: TBF

That said, your case implies that I have the power to stop TBF from being himself, which is odd, because I do have that power, but it seems to manifest itself into bold red text, so here's where the deal starts and ends: I think TBF is a scum player by merit. Just as an additional player. He literally brings game down a player on start. And until he decides to play nicely with the other children, maybe I'll start giving him the respect of not instavoting him. But I am gonna maintain with a 99% likelihood that that simply won't happen until he gets thrown out of towns left and right, like some sort of ostracized leper.

 I have just started ISOing/LurkerTrackering them, so I'll get back to you on that, and yes it is mainly due to that interaction I'm doing that because it's kind of gross.

 If I were to answer you right not, they're below the null line leaning scum, but still a fair bit off prefered lynch.

[Pozzai]

 I kind of come out with it as more of a leantown than leanscum.

 I like the latter part of #336 and I can buy their frustration with the lack of activity from a bunch of people(unless it's a common problem, then it becomes more neutral).
 They've also made a few observations that I agree with/made myself, which is slightly leaning town.
 Continuing some pressure on Flabort.

The negatives however is:
 The 'push' on me as already discussed.
The fact that they have made those observations, but at a later time than me, but kind of not either questioned me at the issues (Flabort being handoff generally) or considered us accessing it from the same pov.
The fact they seem to not having realised at this point I've basically been using gender neutral terms about everyone but Tea this game, seems to indicate a lack of actually reading through my posts.

 Overall, I think I could find people I'd rather get killed by the 3 'townkills' you say we have, these currently being TBF, Flabort and probably still Tea, but I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if they did die?

[Tiruin]

PFP because I lacked time to read on a Sunday but it's 12:44pm noon on this girl's Sunday :p

I like your outlook on naming people, Pozzai, and they is a really good term to adopt when uncertain.

Anyway here's an off-topic thing for help in people peopleing!

Shakerag - He/Him
flabort - He/Him
TheDarkStar - He/Him
Lenglon - She/Her
Tiruin - She/Her
origamascienceguy - He/Him {ALSO THIS DUDE WANTS TO BE REPLACED}
TolyK - He/Him
hector13 - He/Him
FallacyOfUrist - He/Him
Persus13 - He/Him
Jack A T - He/Him
4maskwolf - He/Him
TheBiggerFish - He/Him
doll - He/Him
Tea - She/Her
Pozzai - He/Him

So yes. :p As far as I know about that particular person on that note.

@Tiruin

 Can you walk me through your TBF thing a bit.
Are they obvlivious to their posting style, just as one alignment, or is it a general thing? What is your experience with them?

 Also, do you have any opinion however small about Lenglon, if so what?

Without disclosing personal information about him--yeah that's how he plays, but he's not actually oblivious; I do not know why he's not open in talking about his playstyle or the wish to improve or to self-criticize his own style (directly on all).
He has played this way as both town and scum but in my notes on him--when he plays town, there's a more decisive feel and a more courageous way of how he speaks.
My experience with them is that while his daygame needs improvement, his ability-play is...nominal. Night-game wise, in analyzing his play role-wise back then.

And yes I've an opinion about Lenglon. I'm biased because we're good friends through [SENSITIVE_ISSUES] so that partially pushes me to look up at her. Not so in a way that makes me not assume she's scum [I did that before though <_< She was scum but I was all 'NAAAAH SHE'S TOWN' and then I lost because I was town :v I think. I forget. But that's the lesson I learned.]
Currently I do view her tied with SHakerag--and at a lacking note from him, she is pretty town.

Pretty town, hee. So pretty.
But yeah. Two people off my list of the sixteen people present. I'm assuming a 3-man scumteam.

[Pozzai]

And yes I've an opinion about Lenglon. I'm biased because we're good friends through [SENSITIVE_ISSUES] so that partially pushes me to look up at her. Not so in a way that makes me not assume she's scum [I did that before though <_< She was scum but I was all 'NAAAAH SHE'S TOWN' and then I lost because I was town :v I think. I forget. But that's the lesson I learned.]
Currently I do view her tied with SHakerag--and at a lacking note from him, she is pretty town.

Pretty town, hee. So pretty.
But yeah. Two people off my list of the sixteen people present. I'm assuming a 3-man scumteam.

 I know that feel, I'm kind of flipping back, forth and inbetween in regards to Tea, I want her to be town, but I feel she's scummy, but I in general hasn't been overly succesful on reading her day one so maybe I'm just wrong, or maybe I doubt because I want her to be town, commence the circle-jerking of my braincells =/

[Pozzai]

 Also, if 3-man scumteam (why do you assume this? What factors are involved?) how many 3Ps if any would you think exists ?

[Shakerag]

Anyway here's an off-topic thing for help in people peopleing!

Shakerag - He/Him
flabort - He/Him
TheDarkStar - He/Him
Lenglon - She/Her
Tiruin - She/Her
origamascienceguy - He/Him {ALSO THIS DUDE WANTS TO BE REPLACED}
TolyK - He/Him
hector13 - He/Him
FallacyOfUrist - He/Him
Persus13 - He/Him
Jack A T - He/Him
4maskwolf - He/Him
TheBiggerFish - He/Him
doll - He/Him
Tea - She/Her
Pozzai - He/Him

I will also accept it/its and that asshole/that asshole's.

[Tiruin]

Also, if 3-man scumteam (why do you assume this? What factors are involved?) how many 3Ps if any would you think exists ?

3Ps?
I assume this is a normal setup--town/mafia/3rd party in between. So the general idea is that there's a main antagonist (Mafia), and in a player count of 16, a 3 man team seems the usual. I forget any specifics but I usually narrow things down in generalized proportions when working with unknowns in that manner.

I will also accept it/its and that asshole/that asshole's.

Eeeeey, you're the oldest person here and I'll never say the last bit even if you've learned some grouchy behaviors :p You're overall a nice guy.

[...]
 I know that feel, I'm kind of flipping back, forth and inbetween in regards to Tea, I want her to be town, but I feel she's scummy, but I in general hasn't been overly succesful on reading her day one so maybe I'm just wrong, or maybe I doubt because I want her to be town, commence the circle-jerking of my braincells =/

Specifics on the scummy. It helps reflect on one's own reads and how oneself saw their own processing and reasoning.

I see Tea as leaning town, alongside yourself, given a nice read-back. But I'll be finishing it by Monday since I've got all the time in the world now that I've graduated Psychology because I'm busy ;~;

[Tea]

#PFP #no-quotes

Pozzai, re: my read on you w/r/t third parties

You bringing that just reminded me that Webadict has a thing about what alignments are actually in the game that I have yet to actually thoroughly read. Thx bro.

I think you are experiencing the game as someone legit scumhunting - I'd be very if you flipped group scum. I also don't think you are a serial killer bc I think that both how unconcerned you are with presenting yourself pleasantly and how much I feel like you're trying to do things despite an awkward environment, meet in the middle to be more town than someone-who-normally-gets-NKed-N1-as-town/3P. But I'm less sure that you're not a SK or neutral behaviorally townsiding than I am that you're not group scum. My game plan is not actually to 3P hunt though barring in-game info strongly suggesting I should as I've had decent results from just independently scumreading harmful neutrals in past games while looking for mafia??

-
"why u no spam questions at Jack about his wall since u really wish u knew his alignment?"

I mean, at the point that he had posted it I had kinda put everything related to him - his case on me and trying to read him via interaction - in a box to come back to. I kinda ...don't like interacting with him? It's like, his incredibly haughty command of the English language is kind of awe-inspiring but also not easy to parse mindset from. When I talk to him I feel like there's...an imbalanced power dynamic between us. I was surprised how similarly we were reading the game from his wall and didn't have any real burning questions off the top of my head - which is tentatively nice, as is his semi reconsideration  of me. I did ask him a thing recently when I felt ready to.

-

Hector argued in his last wall that it seemed deflective of Pozzai to ask people for reads on people scumreading after a few people had discussed being suspicious of Pozzai. But from what I remember he only cited examples of Pozzai asking about TBF - which both seemed to ignore Pozzai's TBF trajectory throughout the game and seemed to be talking about that questioning behavior as more pervasive than it really was.

-

Pozzai, when you voted TBF, you mentioned that you think thread consensus being fairly open to his lynch might mean he's town unless the setup is weird - but I dunno that based on his play+apparently meta that his hypothetical scum partners are really in any position to do anything besides... argue someone else is more scummy? I'm also not really feeling a sense of urgency to consolidate on a lynch from the thread yet so I think you jumped the gun on the game flow argument. #nihilism