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[TolyK]

You do realize how bad "don't scumhunt me" sounds, don't you?

[doll]

Sure, but I've got two unblockable kills and you don't (by your own account), so respect it, nano!

[TheDarkStar]

TheDarkStar
Do I need to worry about your lethargy in the daygame this time?
Do you have an information role?
Do you have a killing role?
Are you a third party?

1. No.
2-4. Why are you rolefishing?

TheDarkStar: What value, if any, is there in having an RVS question for everyone if not all of the questions are useful?

Other than generating discussion, none. Once people have started talking, it's even pretty much useless. I don't like RVS particularly much, though.


Jack A T: If you were completely kill/lynch immune, when would you claim it?
origamiscienceguy: If you were a serial killer and had a daykill, who would you kill today?
doll: In your opinion, what is the most important thing to look for in someone's posts to get a read on them?
Shakerag: If you knew that the theme you submitted had a clear impact on your role, would you claim the theme?
doll: Why claim that you're going to die tonight rather than keeping quiet about it to try to waste one of the scum's kills?

[doll]

TheDarkStar
Do I need to worry about your lethargy in the daygame this time?
Do you have an information role?
Do you have a killing role?
Are you a third party?

1. No.
2-4. Why are you rolefishing?

2-4. To find scum. You should try it sometime.

doll: In your opinion, what is the most important thing to look for in someone's posts to get a read on them?

The strongest town indicator is a sense of authenticity.
For scum, broadly speaking what you are looking for is the fact that they don't want all the information in the game out on the front page, but do also have some sense to what it is that they are doing (i.e. they aren't totally useless, which is more anti-town than scum as it were). In general, this is seen either by: they assume that someone is town in their tonality etc. without a good reason to do so, they don't pursue a lead they should, or they don't seem to have a plan in place or have given thought for when they die and town loses whatever is in their head but not down on the whiteboard already, so to say.

doll: Why claim that you're going to die tonight rather than keeping quiet about it to try to waste one of the scum's kills?

Well, I was thinking that I had to be alive to do everything, but actually I think that that's not true so I guess I could have played a normal Day 1.
However, I really need to get past RVS and sort of guide the town and line up scum, since I am actually slinging a lot of kills etc. Though, if I can act while dead, I've got two unblockable kills I can use at any point in the game. Still, it's better to kill people early than late.

That said, a lot of why I claimed is to galvanize players into getting me (and my N1 kills) off of their back and to generate a lot of activity external to myself (since I'm clear).
So, uh, get active.
Or I'll kill you, yeah?

[doll]

Oh, ah, also, as a very strong power-role I'd normally dodge the scumkill; attracting the scumkill means I need to play inauthentically, so I can't actually do it (because an honest and forthright mafia player I am) and still play like town; I'm not actually interested in the balancing act of not getting lynched while grinding for influence in the town, because I've got flash cash and can buy your loyalty with my role powers and imminent death so I'll get right down to the business of hunting for scum yeah?

At the moment you're all interacting with me because I'm the loudest and the most active.
Interact with each other instead, kudasai. That's more useful to me in the longrun, since I'll just assume continued attempts to hunt me are a disinterest in the general game of the day as it stands.

[4maskwolf]

b]4maskwolf[/b]

Jack A T: What I make of it is that this game is going to be a headache that makes me long for GBU 2.

Man that game was awhile ago. What about that game was headache inducing? Also, why do you bring up that game all the time?

I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've mentioned it in years?  And nothing from you was headache-inducing, the daygame was headache-inducing in that game, which is what I was going for in my comment to Jack.

4maskwolf
Is this GENKI!! enough for you, 4mask-chan?
What's your theme?
Are you going to treat me like town?

All right, you know what?  Fine.  I'll trust you.  You're town and you're working in the best interests of the town, and you're going to do something tonight to benefit the town as a whole.  I don't like doing this, but trust is important in mafia, and if I have to trust someone I'll trust the person who is going to be clearly lying if they don't follow through on what they said.

Now, what's my theme?  My theme is Chaos.  That's it.  Don't read too much into it, given that there's no guarantee it affects anything in the game.

Now, question to you for clarity: why are you taking such a big risk this early in the day? Ninja'd by your answer, I spend way too much time typing these posts out.

PPE: TheDarkStar: Isn't generating discussion the entire point of RVS?  Discussion gives the town a basis to go off of into future days and allows the game to progress naturally into the more meaty game phases.

[FallacyofUrist]

FoU
There's no need to scumhunt me, I'm dying by my own hand before D2.
Go do something productive instead.

If you're still alive D2, everybody's going to come after you hard. Including me. With that said... if you don't get suspicious, I'll be fine putting you onto a lower priority.

That said, saying "don't scum hunt me" is pretty suspicious... if not exactly suspicious in a normal manner.

*muses* Jester gambit?
~~~

TheDarkStar: Isn't generating discussion the entire point of RVS?  Discussion gives the town a basis to go off of into future days and allows the game to progress naturally into the more meaty game phases.

I'll steal that question. Yes, partially. The other part of it is hopefully causing scum to slip up and act scummy in a question answer, giving town a target.

Return question: What do you think of question stealing(answering somebody else's question)? Does it benefit the town? Fuel RVS?
~~~

[4maskwolf]

TheDarkStar: Isn't generating discussion the entire point of RVS?  Discussion gives the town a basis to go off of into future days and allows the game to progress naturally into the more meaty game phases.

I'll steal that question. Yes, partially. The other part of it is hopefully causing scum to slip up and act scummy in a question answer, giving town a target.

Return question: What do you think of question stealing(answering somebody else's question)? Does it benefit the town? Fuel RVS?
~~~

I think it's productive to getting more information out and thus is inherently useful, especially if you have an opinion on a question that's being asked.  I mean, I already did it once, why would I do it unless I thought it was useful?

...don't answer that question.

Now, what do you think is a scummy answer to an RVS question?

[Jack A T]

Themes were added for flavorings roles and the game. I threw them in a list and added how I liked. Someone got something from it.

Well, there goes that idea.

Why did I claim my theme name? For good RVS content.
How pre-planned was it? Not very.
What did I get out of it? Some RVS content.
The Joys of RVS

Jack: I think theme names are more signifigant than role names at this time.
How does this affect your viewpoint?

Lenglon: Even before I read Wuba's post, it did not.  Disagreement without reason means little.  If taken as hinting at a role reason, the post comes off as...empty, for lack of a better word.  Why try this?

Do you want to do a (literally harmless, in terms of actions) experiment, Jack?

TolyK: Let's hear it, if it is still relevant.

Pozzai: I can safely say that we don't tend to have soupers around here, at least.

doll:

Spoiler: super secret do not read (click to show/hide)

Bay12 players in general read far too much into the importance of a role's name in relation to it's actual mechanics and flavor. Role names have no actual inherent connection to mechanics, you know? But this is a holdover, I suspect, from bastard mafia games where flavor is essential to figuring out how to play.

No inherent rule-based connection to mechanics, yes.  However, as always, Mafia is structured by social norms and conventions as well as by mechanics.  This is a BYOR, a game whose gimmick is that role names have a coherent link to role mechanics.  Violating that convention brings post-game backlash, and few mods want that.

Most role names have little informational value on their own.  Value comes largely from linkage to known events and from helping in identifying fakeclaims.  Overly specific Shakerag imitations are more useful.  The most informative are the names of roles that give out named powers, as their targets can generally easily link the role to the powers.

That said, there is some overvaluing of the low-information names.  It gives me something to play with at the start of the game.

With this in mind, claiming your theme is therefore something a staunch B12 player swimming in the culture of the site such as yourself might think of as a bit raunchy and ambitious. It's not though.

If I draw attention to something and refuse to answer questions about it, it sounds important and worthy of discussion.  I acted under the assumption that the mechanical relevance of themes was low (Wuba was willing to reference one in pre-game chat).

I was going to ask you a serious of questions about your tendency to read too far into things, like into town werebears and cop sanity and etc. in games and ask about how my asking about that influenced how you saw me and everything and such but my role is too powerful for that and I need to get something done before I die instead, nano des.

Excuse me for a second while I prep a carefully formatted fifteen-post analysis of this, plus a post to answer questions.
More seriously, I already knew you read past games and put some effort into studying players.  Your memory of Mind Reading Mafia is better than that of Supernatural 8, fitting expectations (the former clearly influenced your play in Paranormal 25).

Anyway, I'll leave it as your responsibility to get me a good read on 4maskwolf this Day 1. If you can't do that, I guess you're just not trying hard enough and that's very punishable today, desu.

Enjoy living vicariously.

What is the best way to place your vote in RVS?  Should multiple players vote for the same target in RVS?

On a player who made an answer you think is scummy. Yes, within reason. More pressure means more slipping up, but I wouldn't want somebody to be hammered or lynched based on RVS votes.
Return question: Do you think what I just said is true?

Fallacy: For the first question, I generally don't consider actual scum voting to be part of RVS, but sure.  For the second question, pressure on the target can be helpful, but the reactions of those around can be quite interesting as well.

Jack A T: If you were completely kill/lynch immune, when would you claim it?

TDS: As town (I doubt most other alignments would ever be allowed anywhere near that power set), lynch immunity before being lynched, or at massclaim.  Kill immunity...massclaim.  Both components are most useful when unknown, and claiming lynch immunity too early will distract from the scum.  Both may help at the puzzle-solving post-massclaim stage.

Also, this game has hammers, so please be careful about bandwagons on people.

Persus13: Not a fan of the Teawagon, I see.  Would you have posted this if there was no RVS wagon?  Do you fear that Tea may receive 5 more votes carelessly?

FallacyofUrist: Perhaps something changed in the last few months, but when I last played, there was a social norm against question stealing.  What does violating that norm mean to you when you examine a player's behaviour?

[FallacyofUrist]

One that scum would make...circular. Try again, me.

An answer written from scum's perspective. One that makes assumptions that only scum would make. Inherent knowledge that scum has, reflexively used as part of the question's answer in a subtle manner.

Of course, the difficulty in finding scum in this manner is that scum are trying to act like town, and clues of that type may be hard to detect. However...

In order to act like town, hypothetically, scum players would have to do more thinking to answer a question. Looking for a question that's well thought out... no, that has less spontaneity to it, could also be scummy.
~~~
Ooh, a ninja!

Fallacy: For the first question, I generally don't consider actual scum voting to be part of RVS, but sure.  [1] For the second question, pressure on the target can be helpful, but the reactions of those around can be quite interesting as well.

FallacyofUrist: Perhaps something changed in the last few months, but when I last played, there was a social norm against question stealing.  [2] What does violating that norm mean to you when you examine a player's behaviour?

[1]: I would imagine so. Hm. I'll have to remember that.

[2]: Nothing, really. It gets more information out there. Well, actually, doing that means you're answering more questions and whatnot. Being active. I'd actually apply a slight town lean to that behavior.

[Persus13]

Doll:

...what did I just listen to.

It seems like either you were the only person who listened to the music, or this is somehow par for the course.

Its not too surprising from webadict. How are you pronouncing desu, by the way, correctly, or the teenage girl version?

Persus13
I take it your theme was 'western' and that you didn't specify how it should be used.
I was surprised to learn that I don't have a photo of a doll in a cowboy hat on me, I thought I did, otherwise I would have changed my avatar.
Do you think that themes are really going to matter in this game at all outside of how much fun we have from the flavor etc.? I'm leaning towards saying they won't, desu.

Actually, I sent in the youtube link at the beginning of the post. Its the musical theme for the bad guy of the film Once Upon a Time in the West, composed by Ennio Morricone.
Webadict said themes might have an impact on roles as well, so they're probably going to be more important than just flavor.

At the moment you're all interacting with me because I'm the loudest and the most active.
Interact with each other instead, kudasai. That's more useful to me in the longrun, since I'll just assume continued attempts to hunt me are a disinterest in the general game of the day as it stands.

Kind of hard to interact with people who haven't posted since I've woken up.

Fallacy of Urist

Fallacy of Urist: What's your favorite mafia game on Bay12 you've played? Why?

*reminisces*

Did I spell that right? Anyhow... Flabort's High Powered BYOR 2 is second. If I wasn't killed by somebody giving me a "you can't win" role and stopping me from acting on only Night 2... bah, humbug. As a result, Mafia Marathon is my favorite game. 23 mini-setups, almost a year to play. It was my favorite because it was fun, and it took a while to end, and it was well designed... seriously, Tomasque is a master at mafia design. I'm honored to be working with him on Odd Mafia.

Return question: Is there much benefit to that RVS question?

Its a conversation starter, I get an idea of what you like about Mafia, and its a way of asking "what's your mafia experience" without doing so directly.

If you're still alive D2, everybody's going to come after you hard. Including me. With that said... if you don't get suspicious, I'll be fine putting you onto a lower priority.

That said, saying "don't scum hunt me" is pretty suspicious... if not exactly suspicious in a normal manner.

*muses* Jester gambit?

This is pretty normal play for Doll D1. Go read the last Paranormal if you want to see Doll's play in the past.

4maskwolf:

b]4maskwolf[/b]

Jack A T: What I make of it is that this game is going to be a headache that makes me long for GBU 2.

Man that game was awhile ago. What about that game was headache inducing? Also, why do you bring up that game all the time?

I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've mentioned it in years?  And nothing from you was headache-inducing, the daygame was headache-inducing in that game, which is what I was going for in my comment to Jack.

Now, what's my theme?  My theme is Chaos.  That's it.  Don't read too much into it, given that there's no guarantee it affects anything in the game.

Time is slow here, so two years ago is still recent for me.
Judging by past BYORs, your theme accurately describes the entire game. So why are you attempting to minimize it?

Jack A T:

Also, this game has hammers, so please be careful about bandwagons on people.

Persus13: Not a fan of the Teawagon, I see.  Would you have posted this if there was no RVS wagon?  Do you fear that Tea may receive 5 more votes carelessly?

If there wasn't an RVS wagon I wouldn't have posted that, as the Teawagon was what made me check to see if this game had hammers. I thought unlikely Tea would have been hammered Day 1, but I've seen games where people accidentally hammered later in the game because they didn't realize the game had them, and it lost the game or hurt town. So I posted to raise awareness of the possibility.

I've tried to post this like 5 times now, and every time someone else ninjas me.

[Shakerag]

Jack A T:

Shakerag: Are you scum?

Nahh, just an asshole.  How about you?


Persus13:

Shakerag: How would you compare the player makeup of this BYOR to the last one?

A little heavy on the foundation and eyeliner.  Also, 4maskwolf needs to cut back on the rouge because he looks like a cheap whore.


TheDarkStar:

Shakerag: If you knew that the theme you submitted had a clear impact on your role, would you claim the theme?

I suppose it would depend a lot on circumstances.  What is my alignment, what is the game state, etc.
As you in favor of everyone theme-claiming on D1?


All:
I'm guessing, based on one of my abilities, that there are at least a handful of inspection powers (possibly even day inspects).  So with a nod to Toaster I'm going to claim that I'm an sk-miller.  Leave it to webadict to screw with me...

[flabort]

Good wonderful morning you bastards Getting the game going with two whole pages of posts in my sleep.

flabort: How would you react if you learned that I was lying about my theme?

Good question. I would have to find out the motive behind this lie, so I would probably put a pressure vote on you and grill you with a ton of questions, half of which were seemingly unrelated to the lie in question. This is assuming I find out pre-humously.

Flabort: On N1 you get a mason chat with someone at random. Which player would you want it to be with most or least, and which role would you want it to be with most or least?

For most, my choice is Shakerag with a Night-kill. Alternatively, Jack A T with an inspection.
For least, that's harder to answer. I'm thinking, though, that it would be OSG with a 1-shot protection. Or 1-shot anything, really.

flabort
Helps when you post, nano.
I'm killing multiple people tonight.
You can't stop me.
Why shouldn't I kill you?

Plenty of WIFOM here. Time to throw some more out.
1) You can't, at least not permanently
2) I will be posting lots when I'm awake
3) I'm actually a pretty decent scum-hunter, if a bit rusty at it right now
4) How do you know you won't be voted off before tonight? You were pretty clearly role fishing on TDS, Shakerag, Fallacy, and even 4maskwolf. Rolefishing is a bad way of scum hunting, and more often a scum tactic than town.

For now though:
1) I'm dying tonight
2) I'm unblockable
3) My role is very strong
4) I suspect that there may exist daygame powers which can snipe me before I get to night 1
5) That includes voting control powers
6) Therefore, anyone who votes me today is madcrazy suspicious if I don't get all my fireworks off
7) Therefore, don't vote me if you are town
I'm probably going to get daykilled or something anyway
9) Jokes on you scum, you I actually need to make it to Day 2 and couldn't think of a good way to dodge the scumkill
10) Have fun with the wifom, nano desu

This... there's two options I see. Either you are a Jester asking to be lynched, or novice scum. #6 and #7 are suuuper suspicious.
FoS, Doll

Shakerag
Which mafia game in this forum was your favorite to play? What did you learn from it that you can apply to this game?

TheDarkStar
What is the strangest but surprisingly effective scumhunting tactic you've ever seen?


Tiruin
Each time Doll makes a post, how do you physically react? Does anyone else give you a similar feeling? Does anyone give you a worse feeling?

OragamiScience
How much of Mafia is emotional, how much is critical thinking, and how much is BS?

TolyK
Let's say it was saturday and you had a majority voting on you. You have two potential suspects for the actual scum team, and you can make a good case on one but town has made it's case against you based on your earlier unfounded suspicions on that person; the case that you can make against your other suspect is much weaker, but wouldn't look like a tunnel-vision case. What do you do?

Hector13
If you were town and I wrongfully voted for you over a vote you made, what would your reaction be?

Fallacy
What is your favorite gambit (to use or in theory), and how would you counter it if you found it being used against you?

Persus13
Long time no interact. What do you feel you'll be bringing to the scum-hunting table this time around?

4maskwolf
What significance do you think the titles pre-game had? If what Jack AT and Doll said is true, it seems they have to do with themes and/or roles - do you believe this for a minute, and if so, do you think what they said about it is a form of role fishing?

TheBiggerFish
At what stage does RVS end for you? Do you ignore RVS like some and wait until later in the day to start scum hunting, or do you find RVS to yield useful data sometimes?

Tea
Explain in your own words the significance of a Finger of Suspicion.

Pozzai
I'm not going to be a jerk and random vote you for being new - what do you think about the people who would do this? Who do you think is capable of this, and why?

[TolyK]

Jack:

Do you want to do a (literally harmless, in terms of actions) experiment, Jack?

TolyK: Let's hear it, if it is still relevant.

Do you want to chat? There's a way we can chat in private. I can give more details regarding the actual experiment there. Are you up? (This would possibly eventually add more folks to said chat).
I'm tentatively trusting you, mostly because there's historically been little I can actually read from your posts (only from actions).


Shakerag:

All:
I'm guessing, based on one of my abilities, that there are at least a handful of inspection powers (possibly even day inspects).  So with a nod to Toaster I'm going to claim that I'm an sk-miller.  Leave it to webadict to screw with me...

I don't have exactly an inspection ability, but...
Is the sk-miller thing an auto ability?

[TolyK]

Flabort:

TolyK
Let's say it was saturday and you had a majority voting on you. You have two potential suspects for the actual scum team, and you can make a good case on one but town has made it's case against you based on your earlier unfounded suspicions on that person; the case that you can make against your other suspect is much weaker, but wouldn't look like a tunnel-vision case. What do you do?

Isn't it late for hypothetical RVS questions?..
Anyways, I'd probably explain my points on both said persons, die, then hopefully people will remember my suspicions.