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Author Topic: BYOR 0 - Game Over: Everyone Dies, SK wins  (Read 193443 times)

Pozzai

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #180 on: May 31, 2017, 03:55:04 am »

Ironically if you're lying about your theme Jack, that would make me feel better than if you're telling the truth.
I'm curious why you brought this up prior to Jack elaborating beyond "because."

My perception of what Jack has claimed about his theme is that the thought processes reflected up to and including the doll question were probably ~completely from pregame and that his role PM gave him no real reason to not want to jump in with that. I do think an easy way for scum to appear town is to articulate pure, pre-scum role PM thoughts - but I dunno that I feel that's any more likely than chance.

 Even if planned pre-game, I feel like when you'd actually receive your information you'd still do a small stop and reconsider the options. In closed setups pre-planned stuff doesn't always turn out the same way as you'd planned.

 I feel both the whole "making a full list to interact with people" and the seemingly lack of any pause in the actions are pointing more in the direction of scum than town, albeit not a "well lockscum now to find the remaining x mafias" kind of way.

 Why are you so interested in small potentially irrelevant leans this early when you've not seen how far I'd press it?
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Pozzai

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #181 on: May 31, 2017, 03:59:37 am »

@Tea

 Your day been okay?
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Tea

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #182 on: May 31, 2017, 04:12:07 am »

Why are you so interested in small potentially irrelevant leans this early when you've not seen how far I'd press it?
I'm not sure what this is in reference to?

I had a good day. Bit sleepy/grumpy at the moment though.
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Jack A T

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #183 on: May 31, 2017, 04:32:06 am »

TheBiggerFish: Ah, that explains everything.  Mafia - sleep = the best play.

Jack A T: Oh come one now, I'm pretty sure you knew I would answer that question, especially when you ask how I feel about you asking that question.  I got my thoughts about because why the hell not?  I had an opinion, you had a question I could hijack to give out that opinion, and its RVS where the point is to get as much material out as possible, so why not provide some of my own.  You're right in your analysis of us as players, though: I'm fucking terrible at early game analysis and doll is pretty good at it.
4maskwolf: I had a feeling you might answer it, but I also recognized a countervailing force: the (strangely strong) norm against answering questions directed to others.  Your framing of your answer as a response to the question to doll indicates a willingness to violate that norm, a willingness that indicated some feeling of significance.  Your response, in general, is noted.
As for asking you and doll, not quite my intent.  I asked doll because doll is the only person I know who has seriously analyzed pre-game chatter, and I asked you because you had posted recently.

Scum would be the ones with most information about how much effect, if any themes have on the game, as they have the most information to pool together, so I consider people who feel 'okay' about releasing that type of information this early in the game, to be more scummy than towny, because as town you'd be more inclined to be fearful for what negatives could come of it.
 Will themes flip alongside roles and does OP usually give themes a gameplay effect or merely flavour?
Pozzai: Prior Webadict BYOR games have not included the theme element, so I cannot say much.  I would expect, however, some sort of gameplay effect.  As for my comfort with releasing my theme, I will explain later.
In a complicated game with multiple third parties (Webadict's BYORs always have them), what approach to information management and control would you take as mafia?  As town?

I feel both the whole "making a full list to interact with people" and the seemingly lack of any pause in the actions are pointing more in the direction of scum than town, albeit not a "well lockscum now to find the remaining x mafias" kind of way.
Full list RVS is rather common behaviour in Bay 12, and helps me calibrate my reads of everyone.  Can you explain what you mean about the lack of pause?

Jack: I admit to being confused as to why you claimed your theme so early. Could you tell me your view on claiming flavor, rolenames, and abilitynames in general in a BYOR like this?
Lenglon: I will explain my theme claim reason later.  In general, my approach to flavour/name/ability name claims in BYORs is quite situational, but always cost/benefit analysis-based.  Generally, I want to add to the town pool of information without giving too much to the scum.  Ability names are rarely claimed outside of full-on roleclaims, as they often come quite close to saying what the ability is.  Role names, however, I am more comfortable revealing in most cases: unless they are Shakerag imitations, it is generally tough to predict powers from them.  Their value to the town, however, is usually quite limited.

I don't find Pozzai's or Lenglon's votes alignment indicative. I think that you voted me because of how you decided to go about your question wall, but that the mindset behind the wall is important. The rest of your post about me beyond the vote makes me feel uncomfortable because the loaded premise --> blatant reaction test question is just ... super inorganic? Like, the wagon and the LET'S DEMAND AN INSTANT RESPONSE TO THE WAGON in tandem is just..distracting from letting me find what I /do/ think is alignment indicative, and is making the most important thing about me to the thread this super artificial thing.
Was your wall of questions written in the order that you posted it in?
Tea: The wall of questions was written in loosely linear order, with editing and adjustments.  Pozzai was placed at the bottom for some separation from the more RVSey preceding questions, and doll (and by extension 4mask) was placed at the top for flow.

I voted you not because of how I decided to handle the mass questions, but because Pozzai voted for you.  Multiple votes can generate some interesting reactions, both from the target and from those around, and Bay 12 has tended too far against placing multiple votes on the same person in RVS (making the "V" in RVS even less meaningful).  This generated interesting reactions.  Notably, you seem to put more weight on a facially ridiculous RVS vote than it is due.

What makes this vote, which you recognize is absurd, "the most important thing about [you]" in the thread?  Do you fear that it will stay in place?
My perception of what Jack has claimed about his theme is that the thought processes reflected up to and including the doll question were probably ~completely from pregame and that his role PM gave him no real reason to not want to jump in with that. I do think an easy way for scum to appear town is to articulate pure, pre-scum role PM thoughts - but I dunno that I feel that's any more likely than chance.
All questions were written and almost all ideas were developed after the game started, with full awareness of my PM.




Webadict: Will themes flip alongside roles?
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Quote from: Pandarsenic, BYOR 6.3 deadchat
FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

Pozzai

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #184 on: May 31, 2017, 04:50:44 am »

Scum would be the ones with most information about how much effect, if any themes have on the game, as they have the most information to pool together, so I consider people who feel 'okay' about releasing that type of information this early in the game, to be more scummy than towny, because as town you'd be more inclined to be fearful for what negatives could come of it.
 Will themes flip alongside roles and does OP usually give themes a gameplay effect or merely flavour?
Pozzai: Prior Webadict BYOR games have not included the theme element, so I cannot say much.  I would expect, however, some sort of gameplay effect.  As for my comfort with releasing my theme, I will explain later.
In a complicated game with multiple third parties (Webadict's BYORs always have them), what approach to information management and control would you take as mafia?  As town?

I feel both the whole "making a full list to interact with people" and the seemingly lack of any pause in the actions are pointing more in the direction of scum than town, albeit not a "well lockscum now to find the remaining x mafias" kind of way.
Full list RVS is rather common behaviour in Bay 12, and helps me calibrate my reads of everyone.  Can you explain what you mean about the lack of pause?

  It highly depends on exactly what information I have. As town I tend to mull things over a lot, release what I consider acceptable or important. I tend to always consider worst case scenarioes where SOUP roles are in play and analyse what lengths I can go to without compromising myself or other towns due to giving out too much information.

 As scum I tend to verbalise the concerns I have more in scumchat that in gamechat, always looking for ways to utilize them the best(read, move close to gamebreaking :P)

 If you meant "information" more as in terms of reads and links. I generally trust my townreads more than my scumreads and trust that I can manage to read the more dangerous factions of 3P as just being "not town", I tend to note down, but not overly discuss anti-alignments but that will be largely irrelevant if it's a bunch of solo 3P.

 In terms of the "lack of pause" I feel like if I preplanned something, got my role pm and something in it described a thematic influence, I'd reconsider my options before leading on with my plan.

 You posted it fairly quickly after the role pms went out and the game started, hence the small time between the post and pregame stuff, I would consider a lack of secondguessing(pause).
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Lenglon

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #185 on: May 31, 2017, 04:54:01 am »

Jack: Which do you think is more signifigant, theme names or role names?

Pozzai: You got a D0 inspect of a survivor, and have no reason to doubt the inspect result in any way, when do you claim this and when would/wouldnt you lynch the survivor?
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Pozzai

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #186 on: May 31, 2017, 05:08:32 am »

Pozzai: You got a D0 inspect of a survivor, and have no reason to doubt the inspect result in any way, when do you claim this and when would/wouldnt you lynch the survivor?

  Is that all my role does?

 If yes:
 I think I'd not really worry about it till day3/day4 or potentially if the target is being lynched and I have a strong feeling about another person being scum. Unless any flips reveal a way the check could be tampered with I'd never lynch them untill F3, and then only if I were 99%+ certain the 3rd person is town, and as such can deduct the "survivor" had an inbuilt rolecheck tamper.

 The reason I'd wait till later days is that if that's all my role can do, I'd rather die with the information and take a bullet for stronger roles, than out it and reveal to scum that I'm not a priority target.

 If no:
 I'd wait to see if I could influence the game otherwise with my role and make actions depending on that, analyse what action would give town and me the most information potentially related to the survivor to work with, but still not out early.
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Jack A T

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #187 on: May 31, 2017, 05:09:35 am »

Pozzai: Thank you.  I'm not familiar with the SOUP acronym.  Can you clarify?
As for the speed of posting, I've had a lot of practice.  It used to take a lot longer for to pump out quasi-useful and unusual calibrating RVS questions.  I will not comment yet on why I revealed my theme name, though.

Lenglon: I'm not sure if this quite answers your question, but I think role names, if public, are of more direct informational value than theme names at the moment (though there is wide variance).  This is primarily because we know what a role is, and have some idea of the relationship between role mechanics and role names.  There is a stronger base of knowledge to use in interpretation.
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Quote from: Pandarsenic, BYOR 6.3 deadchat
FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

Pozzai

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #188 on: May 31, 2017, 05:10:01 am »

Why did I turn into a "Bay watcher" I much prefered "escaped lunatic" :(
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Pozzai

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #189 on: May 31, 2017, 05:13:38 am »

Pozzai: Thank you.  I'm not familiar with the SOUP acronym.  Can you clarify?
As for the speed of posting, I've had a lot of practice.  It used to take a lot longer for to pump out quasi-useful and unusual calibrating RVS questions.  I will not comment yet on why I revealed my theme name, though.

 Might be lingo from the places I played early.

 A souper is a role/ability that allows scum to kill (often) as many people they wish in the night by correctly guessing the correct role for the given player.

 Each correct guess kills the target and allows them to make another guess, an incorrect guess reveals the souper/a random mafia at day start.

Basically it's a counter to people simply claiming their role. Albeit this is rarely seen in closed setups because lets be fair. When every town can be every role imaginable, your ability to guess it correctly is very limited :P
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TolyK

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Re: BYOR 0: Timer Dings. Locking Thread. Sending Roles (100%)
« Reply #190 on: May 31, 2017, 05:16:39 am »

And so it starts.

A claim: My theme is the balance of threat, a concept from my field of study, international relations.  Yes, my theme is the apparent basis of the title flabort did not get.

Why am I claiming this?  Because.


TolyK: I claimed my theme.  What does this tell you about the game?

Alright, so I read the article linked, thought a bit...

IMO, this doesn't change alignment distribution, since I'm "vanilla" town (no wincon bullshit :p) and thus unlikely to be "special" in that way. Given my role's apparent power, it seems that the power level isn't insane. Currently, I also have a feeling that things can escalate very quickly.

Do you want to do a (literally harmless, in terms of actions) experiment, Jack?



PPE: 4 messages, yikes. :D

Pozzai: I think that means you have >10 posts.

PFP, just woke up.
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My Mafia Stats
just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.

Lenglon

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #191 on: May 31, 2017, 05:21:47 am »

Jack: I think theme names are more signifigant than role names at this time.

How does this affect your viewpoint?
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

Lenglon

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #192 on: May 31, 2017, 05:27:46 am »

Flabort: On N1 you get a mason chat with someone at random. Which player would you want it to be with most or least, and which role would you want it to be with most or least?
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((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))

TolyK

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #193 on: May 31, 2017, 05:34:25 am »

Tea,
Ironically if you're lying about your theme Jack, that would make me feel better than if you're telling the truth.
I'm curious why you brought this up prior to Jack elaborating beyond "because."

My perception of what Jack has claimed about his theme is that the thought processes reflected up to and including the doll question were probably ~completely from pregame and that his role PM gave him no real reason to not want to jump in with that. I do think an easy way for scum to appear town is to articulate pure, pre-scum role PM thoughts - but I dunno that I feel that's any more likely than chance.
Can the same be said for scum and town, though? Town wants to give information to others, but not too much too fast because of potential danger. Scum wants to appear like they're giving relevant info, while actually minimizing usefulness. How do we differentiate?
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My Mafia Stats
just do whatevery tolyK and blame it as a bastard mod
Shakerag: Who are you personally suspicious of?
At this point?  TolyK.

Lenglon

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Re: BYOR 0 - Day 1: Welcome To Sundown!
« Reply #194 on: May 31, 2017, 05:37:11 am »

Tolyk:
You are town in a BYOR, but have an ability that changes your alignment to match the target's.
Do you play as town or as survivor pre-ability-use? who do you use that ability on and when?
Logged
((I don't think heating something that is right above us to a ridiculous degree is very smart. Worst case scenario we become +metal statues+. This is a finely crafted metal statue. It is encrusted with sharkmist and HMRC. On the item is an image of HMRC and Pancaek. Pancaek is laughing. The HMRC is melting. The artwork relates to the encasing of the HMRC in metal by Pancaek during the Mission of Many People.))
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