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Generals.

7 (36.8%)

Engineers.

7 (36.8%)

Nobility. (ie. Neither, just observing.)

5 (26.3%)

Total Members Voted: 19

[Chiefwaffles]

Behold, the King David Rifled Musket!
We've used a breakthrough innovation in this design, the Minié ball along with rifling. The amazing Minié ball uses rifling without sacrificing the rate of fire, making the perfect solution to the request! These innovations double the effective range of the now-obsolete Imperial Musket. With soldiers properly trained on careful use of the new musket, they can fire at the very respectable rate of a round every 50 seconds, comparable to our Imperial Musket. We focused on the quality in this design, and it shows in its Very Expensive price. But without a doubt, this rifle is worth every penny.
And no, we did not forget the bayonet. Any soldier with this rifle can easily slap a bayonet on it for some good ol' melee.

[RAM]

Bah! Useless! War depends upon strong formations, powerful artillery, and swift cavalry. What use is a weapon if not even a full formation can field it? Cavalry will tear the poor sould apart. We asked for a gun for our army, and got scant enough toys for a hunting lodge. There is no place for your games in our army!

((Mind you, this would have been perfect for MY doctrine, just saying...))

[Playergamer]

Very Expensive? This does not fulfill our request at all! Engineering isn't easy, but surely it isn't that expensive to put a few grooves in a rifle, hmm? If you can't make it cheaper, I don't see much point in the current design.

[Khang36]

While i must congratulate the engineering core for fulfilling our primary requirements, do not think your flowery words can hide the short coming of this new rifle of yours. You claim that this new "amazing" Minié ball would allow the use of rifling without compromising the rate of fire, yet in your very own words a properly train soilder will take 50 seconds to load this gun. In the time it would take for a trained soilder to load and fire this rifle i could have some farmer's boy load and fire his musket twice and ramming down the bullet for his third shot with only a day of instruction. Additionaly what does this carefull training entail? It is no secret that in times of war that our forces' number are bolstered by patriots answering the crown's calls to arms, many of which would not have held a gun in their life. Such men can not be expected to keep to their training in the heat of battle, so tell me what are the consequences of failing to follow these instruction on the use of your gun?

[Chiefwaffles]

The training is quite simple, in fact! It just involves some quick instruction on proper use of the gun, and nothing else. Imagine the utility! It's a perfect weapon for snipers - which I'm sure we possess. We could cut down troops and eliminate important personnel before their forces even come into range with ours!

It's quite an astounding weapon. Perhaps it may not be enough to fulfill the impossible demands laid on us by the brass, but it can give our forces much more mobility as they're able to use their new muskets at double the effective range.

[Aseaheru]

 Also, remember that in all respects training troops for this weapon is identical to old-style muskets.

[Khang36]

The training is quite simple, in fact! It just involves some quick instruction on proper use of the gun, and nothing else. Imagine the utility! It's a perfect weapon for snipers - which I'm sure we possess. We could cut down troops and eliminate important personnel before their forces even come into range with ours!

It's quite an astounding weapon. Perhaps it may not be enough to fulfill the impossible demands laid on us by the brass, but it can give our forces much more mobility as they're able to use their new muskets at double the effective range.

Yes yes, i know full well its capabilities you told me so your self. What i want to know is, what is the purpose of this carefull training you mentioned before? And additionaly dispite what you claim of the Minié ball what is causing the loading time to be more than doubled?

[Chiefwaffles]

The training is exactly that; training. Would you let a peasant near an advanced and powerful weapon? With no training at all, who knows what they could do. Do you want someone shooting themselves in the foot because the generals, unwilling to accept change, denied them training?
Like engineer Aseaheru said, it's nigh-identical to the training required of our old-style muskets.

The mild change in loading times is simply a consequence of our design. Some sacrifices must be made for something as precise and extreme-ranged as the King David Rifled Musket.

[Aseaheru]

 Specifically, it likely refers to training to hit targets at these outstanding ranges and for officers to be able to utilize these advantages, as muskets... well, the officer aims their troops muskets in a volley as otherwise one is unlikely to hit a target aimed for beyond about ten arshins with them, as I am sure you are all aware, and training ones serfs to better be able to think for themselves, albeit in the limited manner possible, and then to effectively control them... One must assume that the plans are for issuing these weapons to the skirmishers, where they should do the most good?
 Of course, I cannot be certain, there was some significant work on other, long-range projects that posses great promise, particularly for Skirmishers and Calvary. But talk on those are for another time.

[Khang36]

Do not think i have not noticed your attempts to skirt around my question. What i want to know is if the gun is used improperly what will happen? Do i need to be concerned that blasted thing may exploding killing good men as they defend our lands from the turk heathen? Or that the powder may prematurely combust while loading permanently maiming my men? If you continue skirt around I will not accept this gun for use in our armies.

[origamiscienceguy]

I must say, the design is rather safe. The bullet has only one direction to go, and cannot cause any damage to a user, if the powder and ammunition is being used as directed. If some foolish soldier were to load much more black powder than directed, there is a possibility the barrel might rupture, but even then, tests have shown that the shrapnel travels forward, meaning the user would still be genuinely unharmed. These miniscule dangers are exactly the same as the old musket, if I may add.

[RAM]

Bah, I told you so, these engineers are useless. It fires too slowly to repulse cavalry and there are too few of them to properly equip our formations. Would you suggest we send our men out to be picked off one-at-a-time without the protection of a proper formation? Or that we should sow confusion in our own ranks by sunjecting them to mismatched armaments? Pure folly.

* RAM storms out of the meeting.

[Chiefwaffles]

Perhaps if you wished for a design to equip cavalry with, you should have specified that in your request!

"General" Khang, our design is safe and works as intended. We can assume you're not going to be throwing the gun at people without training, and even if you do, the gun will still tend to operate normally. You're looking for an issue where there is none.

[Khang36]

Very well i will drop the subject. Carrying on, you have already told us of the guns effective range and reload time, i have to ask though what is the caliber of the rifle? Also could you explain to me how this Minié ball differs from our musket balls?

[Aseaheru]

 The weapon uses a projectile of six lines, and it differs primarily in its basic construction. Instead of a leaden ball, it is instead a shaped, cast projectile, the most important section being the base, which is designed to deform on firing and engage the rifling. There where proposals for systems that work without this, as it makes for a more expensive projectile, but they would have required a... different set of design priories. It is being worked on, but slowly.

 Engineer Waffles, the... Officer was expressing a weapon that could defeat calvary with its rate of fire alone, which is... less than likely with a muzzleloader. Infact, conservative estimates of rate of fire that have been received call for a weapon that can fire atleast once every six seconds to be able to defeat near any Calvary or even just a paltry infantry charge.