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[marples]

Also figured out exactly how the 'scrap multiplier' works, it increments based on the number of executions you perform. 

Yeah. In-game loading tips say it is through just killing enemies, but it has to be executions. Also, the implant that gives 10% more scrap, just adds the first level of the execution multiplier.
The execution multiplier also sticks through level transitions so you can head back to the early stages to beef it up.

[Sirian]

The problem with the fully-functional PAX units is knocking them down, I can almost kill them with a single combo, but knocking them down is proving to be incredibly difficult.  And they have entirely too much reach with their blades.

I don't know if the PAX you're talking about is the same as the first boss but I found him fairly trivial to beat once I learned to rush between his legs instead of trying to evade or sidestep.

[NullForceOmega]

He is trivial to beat, but two or more of them plus Cerberus are not, at all.

[nenjin]

It looks okay, but I'm of the above opinion that "Souls" is just an excuse to make your game ugly and frustrating and call it difficulty.  The Souls series is the veganism of video games and I'm sick of hearing about it.

Spoiler: I get the senitment... (click to show/hide)

But I don't think the label should be disregarded just because no one has come up with a better one that's stuck. I do agree that Souls-like games in some ways are a design regression. But compared to what calls itself gameplay these days.....a regression away from what are essentially arcade games I kinda like. We're still dealing with Open World Survival fatigue (thank god Zombies has finally died down.) I dunno. I agree and don't agree. Souls-like as a genre still tells me vaguely that I might be interested in something.

I really wish there was a commonly used, distilled concept for what DS does. That's, you know, fair.

[Neonivek]

Could be disregarded given that there were Souls Games LOOONG before Dark Souls. Especially if you check out the parent company.

But then again "It is what made it popular, not what created it"

I still hate how they do magic in all the souls games (including Blood Borne) and games the same company made.

[NullForceOmega]

I'm not sure which of From's games your referencing there neo, I felt magic was extremely well done in the King's Field series.

[Cthulhu]

I like that you mentioned what other games are, since I think a big part of the souls hype is that it's become a fashion trend.  You wear souls games like clothes so people know you're a hardcore gamer that doesn't play baby games.  That's why people won't ever shut the fuck up about souls games and bring them up constantly, because playing souls games is as much a social statement as an activity, and people need to know you play them.

As far as defining the genre, then we get into what exactly is souls doing that's different?  Difficulty and trial-and-error?  Roguelikes have been around for decades.  The combat system?  The Surge is kind of fun but when I play it I'm just further convinced that what I actually enjoyed about dark souls was the multiplayer.  Semi-asynchronous multiplayer was what actually made dark souls special for me.  The combat was barely passable and clunky as fuck, lots of gimmicks and gotcha bullshit further complicated by bugs and engine jankiness.

[Neonivek]

I'm not sure which of From's games your referencing there neo, I felt magic was extremely well done in the King's Field series.

Kuon

It was Dark Souls before Dark Souls. If you ever wondered why the series had odd design choices here and there, look no further than Kuon to discover exactly why that was the case.

[NullForceOmega]

I had never heard of that title before, but a lot of From's PS2 products flew very low on the radar (and I had no money during that period of time, so I didn't actually own many PS2 games.)  It seems to me that most of their titles are iterations on the 'hard as nails' paradigm, as King's Field will completely wreck your shit until you manage to survive long enough to start leveling up.  It has a great many things in common with Souls (but being first person is pretty different), it emphasizes the same principles of measured combat and careful tactics that the Souls games are so famous for.

[Neonivek]

While Kuon is where their magic system came from (at least, I THINK so)

[NullForceOmega]

As far as The Surge goes, I've temporarily abandoned pursuit of MASSIVE ENERGY AXE in order to clear out as many side quests as I can, and they shed some interesting light on various happenings in the CREO compound.  I'm going to search the hell out of the areas I have access to trying to uncover as many of the audio logs as I can.

[marples]

MASSIVE ENERGY AXE

I'm still rocking the chainsword, but I'm starting to think some of the new staffs are good enough to pull limbs off. I just can't get behind the wind up of 1rig and heavys.

[NullForceOmega]

I don't like the single rig either, but the heavies have some good utility, they are extra-deliberate use weapons tho', I've been using the Bloodhound so much that it has almost passed one-handed weapons in proficiency (currently tied-18-18, with one-handed being closer to 19).  The vibro-blade is an amazing weapon, really, I've killed so many enemies with it that if this were DF it would be named.  I'm gonna get that MEA tho', I can't not use it.

Edit:  Still stuck on Cerberus.  Went everywhere I could, but without the security rig I've got everything I can get ahold of, so Axeman and his mechanical wonder-hound have to die.  Found out that he gets to summon as many PAX as he wants unless you destroy these big white towers, but as far as I can tell the only weapon that can do that is PAX's main cannon, and it fires three projectiles that stun-lock if you get hit.  And they're on opposite sides of the arena.  And one of them is in a corner that basically requires PAX to be in a perfect sweet-spot where it wants to fire it's cannon instead of jumping and slashing you to death with his stun-locking Imperator blade.  I don't like this boss, at all.

[nenjin]

As far as defining the genre, then we get into what exactly is souls doing that's different?  Difficulty and trial-and-error?  Roguelikes have been around for decades.  The combat system?  The Surge is kind of fun but when I play it I'm just further convinced that what I actually enjoyed about dark souls was the multiplayer.  Semi-asynchronous multiplayer was what actually made dark souls special for me.  The combat was barely passable and clunky as fuck, lots of gimmicks and gotcha bullshit further complicated by bugs and engine jankiness.

You can't really just call it trail and error. Plenty of games today have that, it's just their trial and error is frustrating in a way that doesn't leave you feeling good when you've succeeded.

[Cthulhu]

As far as defining the genre, then we get into what exactly is souls doing that's different?  Difficulty and trial-and-error?  Roguelikes have been around for decades.  The combat system?  The Surge is kind of fun but when I play it I'm just further convinced that what I actually enjoyed about dark souls was the multiplayer.  Semi-asynchronous multiplayer was what actually made dark souls special for me.  The combat was barely passable and clunky as fuck, lots of gimmicks and gotcha bullshit further complicated by bugs and engine jankiness.

You can't really just call it trail and error. Plenty of games today have that, it's just their trial and error is frustrating in a way that doesn't leave you feeling good when you've succeeded.

But that's basically exactly how I feel when I play dark souls.  There's never satisfaction when I win, because inevitably the way to win was some dumb gimmick that trivializes a fight that's otherwise almost impossible.  Gwyn was like fighting a brick wall until I put on golem armor and ironskin and just spammed parry in his face.

I only like the single-links, though I haven't gotten a heavy yet, missed the big hammer in the underground and can't go back to where it was.  Dual-link feels horrible and one-hand is boring.

Also that song is really getting on my nerves.

I don't like being the guy who says people are having fun wrong, but almost all Souls-like games I've played have been bad clunky games that people play as a statement about what kind of gamer they are.