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Author Topic: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Strategy Phase 2212  (Read 35229 times)

RAM

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #270 on: May 24, 2017, 09:05:17 pm »

Remember that we have two metal this turn, we don't want to forget and just not spend it.

Also, I just want to hold C2 in contention, but it would be really nice to hold A2 and B2 is pretty important. I expect to withdraw some forces from A2 and leave them to horrible deathness for a bit.

Simple T.M.I.
We design a simple Twinned Manufactured Intellect that operates and monitors our fusion reactor. It is hoped that with two collaborative minds they can stabilise one another thus simplifying the otherwise extreme need to produce perfect stability on the first attempt. Much as the spinning bullet need not attain perfect balance as what affects one side will soon affect the other, the paired minds will seek to support one another and undermine any developing cascades. It is hoped that they will improved the efficiency of the fusion generator by reducing its size as a product of removing human necessities from the system, and we intend to draw up schematics for such, but at present this is a mostly theoretical advancement.

I hope that this can lead to further automation and provide us with enough generator technology that it can be installed into ships next turn.

Metallic Hydrogen Lasers
What the other person said about metallic hydrogen being super-awsome... We use it for concentrated power components and powerful heat-sinks on a laser system mounted on a small ship, little more than a pair of floating turrets with an engine and propellor. Features a flat bottom to escape onto land when overwhelmed or countered by submarines or similar, though not exactly practical to get back into the water, it would be possible eventually and preferable to sinking.


We could make a much better ship, but this is just a standby and the important bit is to get a load of ambitious tech out and combine it into a form which should see little competition for a while.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 09:28:58 pm by RAM »
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #271 on: May 24, 2017, 09:15:58 pm »

Let's design something to improve orbital combat and then use a revision to improve our ground combat.

Hwacha Class Assault Vessel: Why are we using fighters at all? Okay, they're good for ground support. Maybe make a mothership type ship later. Anyways. This is a dedicated anti-space combat vessel. Essentially a Venture-Class, but faster, more maneuverable, more resilient... and without fighter bays. This is compensated for by the fact that it can load up to 4 Songbirds at a time and reload rapidly after firing them.

Alternatively...

Hornet Suicide Drone:... why are we using manned fighters when we can use remote-controlled drones? Admittedly, these can't use missiles... but it kinda doesn't matter because they're rapid-moving suicide drones that explode upon impact. They are capable of surviving atmospheric descent and exploding on enemy forces. These are designed to be produced in greater numbers than our A-ASF-8s, but also being smaller. Ideally, our Ventures will be able to load four of these instead of two.

Spoiler: Revision Ideas (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 09:24:22 pm by FallacyofUrist »
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helmacon

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #272 on: May 24, 2017, 10:16:58 pm »

Metallic hydrogen superconductors


Ok, so let me lay it all out here. This gives us:
A bonus to fusion development
A bonus to any laser tech (edit: RAM beat me to it)
More efficient (Smaller!) electronics

Plus all the stuff we can design specifically using superconductors!

And
Magnetic reactive armor

Metal plates coated in metallic hydrogen are covered in a thin inert layer of rubber like material. This is followed by another layer of superconductive circuit holding a charge. When the plate is struck with explosive shrapnel or other debris the inert layer is punctured transferring the charge to the superconductors around the plate and creating an intense repulsive electromagnetic for a few moments that can kill or reverse the velocity of incoming metal debris. The high efficiency of the superconductors means the circuit suffers virtually no passive loss, requiring only a pinprick battery, if at all. The magnetic pulse lasts only a moments, after which the armor is left as little more than a rubber coated steel plate.
They can be manufactured in small plates and fitted into an armored vest, or in larger plates to be bolted onto the outside of spacecraft of vehicles. While only marginally more effective against traditional bullets, they excell at protection against explosives.   

(I considered making this an integrated revision of the space suites as a stepping stone to power armor, but this way it can be used as ship and vehicular armor as well)     

Again, Superconducting magnets are already a thing, often used in MRI machines and the like. The difference here is that metallic hydrogen is a room temp superconductor and is far more useful (and better suited for this kind of armor). This shouldn't be that hard to make.
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Happerry

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #273 on: May 25, 2017, 12:59:19 am »

For our Revision this turn I'd like to make a better fighter, and then maybe next turn invent a booster rocket so we can launch them from the ground to attack enemy ships, which would let us use them without needing a mothership in the area.
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Supreme Commander Nutcase

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #274 on: May 25, 2017, 10:07:29 am »

Remember that we have two metal this turn, we don't want to forget and just not spend it.

Also, I just want to hold C2 in contention, but it would be really nice to hold A2 and B2 is pretty important. I expect to withdraw some forces from A2 and leave them to horrible deathness for a bit.

Simple T.M.I.
We design a simple Twinned Manufactured Intellect that operates and monitors our fusion reactor. It is hoped that with two collaborative minds they can stabilise one another thus simplifying the otherwise extreme need to produce perfect stability on the first attempt. Much as the spinning bullet need not attain perfect balance as what affects one side will soon affect the other, the paired minds will seek to support one another and undermine any developing cascades. It is hoped that they will improved the efficiency of the fusion generator by reducing its size as a product of removing human necessities from the system, and we intend to draw up schematics for such, but at present this is a mostly theoretical advancement.

I hope that this can lead to further automation and provide us with enough generator technology that it can be installed into ships next turn.

Metallic Hydrogen Lasers
What the other person said about metallic hydrogen being super-awsome... We use it for concentrated power components and powerful heat-sinks on a laser system mounted on a small ship, little more than a pair of floating turrets with an engine and propellor. Features a flat bottom to escape onto land when overwhelmed or countered by submarines or similar, though not exactly practical to get back into the water, it would be possible eventually and preferable to sinking.


We could make a much better ship, but this is just a standby and the important bit is to get a load of ambitious tech out and combine it into a form which should see little competition for a while.




Can we put those lasers on spaceships, though? I'd like to see those on spaceships. Might help put dents on the new Moerthi vessels.


As for dealing with said Moerthi buggers without lasers, do we have nuclear fission tech? I'm thinking of building nuclear missiles to blast them to bits.
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RAM

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #275 on: May 25, 2017, 03:49:30 pm »

Can we put those lasers on spaceships, though? I'd like to see those on spaceships. Might help put dents on the new Moerthi vessels.
Our ships can already fight. We were pretty close with two fighters, I would rather hold off on our combat ship until we have working fusion. What worries me about the design is transportation. A ship would need lots of capacity, probably. Given that a radio is too big for our current transports' loading mechanisms...

But you are free to put it on a ship if you want!

Code: [Select]
0 Simple T.M.I.:
0 Metallic Hydrogen Laser ships:
0 Hwacha Class Assault Vessel:
0 Hornet Suicide Drone:
0 Metallic hydrogen superconductors:
1 Magnetic reactive armor: RAM

I am not voting for my own stuff, the armour should let us hold B2 for a while and is a technology advancement... But that makes it difficult to implement... Still should be good enough and so long as it gets the technology on the board we can expand on it.

I really like the drones for the thought that we could get a half-sized fighter, and start on our automation. I kind of hate it though, because it might end up being less drones than we currently have missiles...

I am extremely tempted to just go straight for the superconductors. We started this with research so we may as well sink that cost gloriously.

Remember that we may already be over the production-line cap too, so we may have to sacrifice something in order to gain something.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #276 on: May 25, 2017, 08:25:33 pm »

Submitting designs is nice and all, but I'm going to need more than one person voting to actually lock in a design.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Happerry

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #277 on: May 25, 2017, 08:45:11 pm »

Quote
0 Simple T.M.I.:
0 Metallic Hydrogen Laser ships:
0 Hwacha Class Assault Vessel:
0 Hornet Suicide Drone:
0 Metallic hydrogen superconductors:
2 Magnetic reactive armor: RAM, Happerry
They seem to have made some sort of defensive upgrade themselves, so I guess it's time to make our own. Should also help us with magnetic tech, so hopefully we can use this to help lead into railguns.
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blueturtle1134

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #278 on: May 25, 2017, 09:10:48 pm »

*another idiot bumbles into the War Room!*

Ok, so let me lay it all out here. This gives us:
A bonus to fusion development
A bonus to any laser tech (edit: RAM beat me to it)
More efficient (Smaller!) electronics
Not to mention, it could be used as chemical propellant or explosive. Metallic hydrogen has much higher density than liquid hydrogen, and can add some energy as it decompresses. Of course, it requires much more energy to make, but with small fuel tanks on fighters energy density becomes more useful than production price.
Code: [Select]
...
0 Metallic Hydrogen Laser ships:
...
0 Metallic hydrogen superconductors:
...
1 Magnetic reactive armor: RAM

Hey... wouldn't getting magnetic metallic hydrogen armor or weapons before developing the technology to create it be putting the wagon before the alpaca? Unless it's implied that each of these includes metallic hydrogen basic research, and superconductors means extra work to make it function as a superconductor.

Another thought - we really need a cool trade abbreviation for metallic hydrogen so we don't have to type out the 17 characters every time we talk about it. Say, HyMet.

And would magnetic armor do a thing against explosive concussive force? Repelling particles doesn't do any good against a pressure wave.
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RAM

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #279 on: May 25, 2017, 09:36:13 pm »

wouldn't getting magnetic metallic hydrogen armor or weapons before developing the technology to create it be putting the wagon before the alpaca? Unless it's implied that each of these includes metallic hydrogen basic research, and superconductors means extra work to make it function as a superconductor.

Another thought - we really need a cool trade abbreviation for metallic hydrogen so we don't have to type out the 17 characters every time we talk about it. Say, HyMet.

And would magnetic armor do a thing against explosive concussive force? Repelling particles doesn't do any good against a pressure wave.
Very valid points.
Firstly, you are absolutely correct, we are being greedy. Let us rely upon the grace of good rolls and not fret the risks of asking for everything at once!

Hydrogen metal just doesn't 'do it' for me... How about, Met. H.? No? A bit long still? Me. H.? Or is that to ambiguous... Meta. Hydro.?

Erm... I have seen many action movies, no doubt they were extremely well researched and didn't have silly nonsense like blast-waves or radiant heat or injuries that weren't either instant death, last-words death, or completely irrelevant so long as the victim has the force-of-will to endure them. So clearly your are just making things up! Also, it is still armour, armour does help, especially rigid armour, um, I think? especially if it were pressurised?
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blueturtle1134

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #280 on: May 25, 2017, 10:01:15 pm »

Very valid points.
Firstly, you are absolutely correct, we are being greedy. Let us rely upon the grace of good rolls and not fret the risks of asking for everything at once!

Hydrogen metal just doesn't 'do it' for me... How about, Met. H.? No? A bit long still? Me. H.? Or is that to ambiguous... Meta. Hydro.?

Erm... I have seen many action movies, no doubt they were extremely well researched and didn't have silly nonsense like blast-waves or radiant heat or injuries that weren't either instant death, last-words death, or completely irrelevant so long as the victim has the force-of-will to endure them. So clearly your are just making things up! Also, it is still armour, armour does help, especially rigid armour, um, I think? especially if it were pressurised?
I'd like to point out that more balanced fiction uses the distinction to some effect.
Secondly, assuming that we can handle it, I'd like to vote for defensive MetaHy technologies for now.
Code: [Select]
0 Simple T.M.I.:
0 Metallic Hydrogen Laser ships:
0 Hwacha Class Assault Vessel:
0 Hornet Suicide Drone:
0 Metallic hydrogen superconductors:
3 Magnetic reactive armor: RAM, Happerry,blueturtle1134
Thirdly, it's MetaHy to me now.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #281 on: May 26, 2017, 02:04:19 am »

"Ask for everything at once," they said. "What could go wrong," they said.
Design: Magnetic Reactive Armor
2-2,1,2-3

The Magnetic Reactive Armor is an ugly creation with extremely little functionality.

Currently, the only version of MRA exists in a secure lab on Amaok. The actual plating is relatively small - roughly 5x5 meters. Yet connected to this plating is a huge complex and unreliable system straining the lab's power grid to provide a meager effect. Most of the machinery is simply capacitors required to provide sufficient power to the superconductor as well as machinery providing the adequate conditions for the superconductor to operate. This scales nearly directly with the size of the armor plating, so even if this was the only problem, the only theoretically possible scenario of use for MRA is shielding a small but very important building with extreme amounts of underground infrastructure running the MRA.

The superconductors first require a large power supply in order to provide something somewhat like the desired effect - this is where the majority of the power is required. We had zero experience in metallic hydrogen superconductors and therefore had to choose more traditional methods require cooling, taking up another chunk of power.

The armor is three layers: A conductive layer being supplied a constant charge by nearby power generators, an inert insulating layer, and the superconductive layer constantly being kept below its critical temperature. When a projectile breaks the insulating layer, it connects the two outer layers. The system is configured to detect this, and capacitors immediately discharge their entire energy supply through the superconducting layer to create an electromagnetic pulse, slowing the projectile. But in another cruel twist of fate, we've been unable to optimize the pulse and it very negatively impacts any nearby electronics. It's not a particularly strong EMP blast, but it's quite notable and would be a problem if ever deployed.
The entire mechanism draws power from a city-class grid, and takes about thirty minutes to charge between pulses.

Disregarding all its problems, we've been able to do limited firing tests replicating Moerthi bolters. The armor helps against both bullets and Moerthi bolters. Bullets' armor piercing is drastically reduced as they slow in speed and theoretically even without armor, the survival rate of troops could increase. Bolters should begin exploding either inside or outside the armor, rather than past it. Though with bolters we still recommend heavy armor in conjunction with a functional version of the MRA.

It's... fixable. We'd need a better superconductor, like perhaps that metallic hydrogen superconductor some lead designers were talking about. If this superconductor is developed, we could try incorporating it into the MRA design. Then we'd also need to fix the EMP issue. With all this done, we would then ideally focus on increasing its protective capabilities.
But now, it's useless. Yet it has potential. If correctly harnessed, this could provide a huge advantage

Our lack of experience in superconductors hit us extremely hard here. We may have knowledge of superconductors and how they work, but in this project we essentially just tried to slap standard superconducting circuits onto armor plating.

Magnetic Reactive Armor: A useless piece of high-tech armor which attempts to slow incoming projectiles using magnetic pulses. Superconductors generate an electromagnetic field when hit by a projectile, slowing it. But it notably decreases armor piercing of projectiles and requires extreme amounts of heavy equipment set up behind it, making it nonviable for anywhere but a lab environment. A constant charge must be provided to the outside plate, the superconductors must be constantly cooled, and capacitors have to provide energy to create the electromagnetic effect. Can only generate a pulse every thirty minutes, given access to a city-scale power grid.


It is now the Revision Phase of 2210.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2210
« Reply #282 on: May 26, 2017, 02:15:59 am »

I do not think that we missed out on much with those rolls.
Meh
We try again with the metallic Helium, and just the metallic helium, getting it to work in a project is beyond the scope of our efforts.


Scanning Radar
 We attempt to expand our missile-mounted radar to provide a radar that functions on our large ships, which can then coordinate our fighters.


Venture Enlargement
 We send our Venture-class combat ship out to one of those helpful solicitators who offered enlargement services if we visited their site. They really knew their stuff and made it significantly longer! It now stores more cargo!
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
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helmacon

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2210
« Reply #283 on: May 26, 2017, 02:32:24 am »

OH GOD DAMN IT YOU BEAUTIFUL BASTERDS!!

I ONLY POSTED THE MRA DESIGN TO SHOW YOU WHAT WE COULD DO AFTER WE RESEARCHED THE SUPERCONDUCTORS!! YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO VOTE FOR IT RIGHT OUT!!

Oh god... Why? Why are we like this?

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RAM

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2210
« Reply #284 on: May 26, 2017, 03:06:32 am »

Because sanity is for the weak.
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
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