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Author Topic: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Strategy Phase 2212  (Read 34730 times)

helmacon

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2209
« Reply #240 on: May 21, 2017, 07:51:42 pm »

We are making missiles, not new fighters. If we give them better missiles.... We still have 3 fighters.

If you are talking about splitting them up, one fighter per transport, them one fighter vs an enemy warship...
Fighters against defenseless transports don't need tracking missiles to kill. Dumb fire missiles just take more time to line up the shot, but they kill the transport just the same.

So, we do tracking missiles , we split them up, we kill two transports and lose one to a warship. Or We keep them together and either kill one transport or (maybe) kill a warship.
If we don't do tracking missiles, split them up, we kill two transports and lose 1 to a warship. Or We keep them together and either kill one transport or probably lose them all to a war ship.

Sure, it changes the out come a tiny bit... But that's not worth using our revision on. This is literally the worst timing for this revision. We could use this on superconductors instead, and make something awesome next turn, and then revise missiles.
If we revise missiles this turn, I guarantee you next turn you will have people calling to design a fighter or something that can use them, and superconductors get pushed off again. We can not afford to keep putting them off. We need some sci-fi basis to start building better stuff.
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Taricus

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2209
« Reply #241 on: May 21, 2017, 07:54:04 pm »

On the flip side though they don't have any warships at all, so unless they devote their efforts into getting more, we'll be fine.
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helmacon

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2209
« Reply #242 on: May 21, 2017, 08:07:10 pm »

On the flip side though they don't have any warships at all, so unless they devote their efforts into getting more, we'll be fine.
Yes, that is my whole point. We will be fine without guided missiles. So long as we can find them, we can kill them easily with dumb fire missiles.
Guided missiles are not useful to us at this time. This is the time to do superconductors.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2209
« Reply #243 on: May 21, 2017, 09:46:49 pm »

Considering the current conflict, I'll be waiting until there's a >1 vote lead in one of the ideas or until someone switches a vote.
There does seem to be support for radar-guided missiles from people who haven't voted, but if you want to voice that support, you should vote.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Happerry

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2209
« Reply #244 on: May 21, 2017, 10:11:36 pm »

Radar guided missiles are useful for more then fighters, guys. It's a small step from Radar guided missiles to strategic radars to guide our troops, raidar guided airfighters, it makes cruise missiles a lot easier, orbital bombardment, anti-orbital bombardment, and naval stuff.

Don't think of it as just a missile upgrade, think of it as a missile upgrade that gives us working radar.
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Taricus

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2209
« Reply #245 on: May 21, 2017, 10:12:46 pm »

Quote from:  revision vote
1- Metallic hydrogen Superconductors: helmacon | http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164126.msg7460576#msg7460576
0- "Songbird Banshee" Radar-guided missiles: | http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164126.msg7460601#msg7460601
0- "God with a Machine" manufactured proto-mind twins":  | http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164126.msg7460601#msg7460601
3- Upgrade our Missiles with Radar Guidance Already: Happerry, voidslayer, Taricus
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helmacon

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2209
« Reply #246 on: May 21, 2017, 10:33:15 pm »

Uh... We have working radar. We are just putting it on a missile, which is the least of our priorities this turn.

If the idea is investment, superconductors is the way to go.
Guys, for fucks sake. You lay ground work at the beginning. If we try to do that mid game, we have already lost. Sure it's not exciting like a missile or an auto turret, but it is far more important! This is not a game that you win by playing in the margins. You win by constantly changing the playing field. Superconductors can change the playing field. Guided missiles are in the margins.

Calling it now. If we go guided missiles, it proves near useless this turn.
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2209
« Reply #247 on: May 21, 2017, 10:39:53 pm »

We don't have working radar, the design specifically said we don't.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2209
« Reply #248 on: May 21, 2017, 10:52:26 pm »

You can make radars but they're automatically very low priority in designs when not specifically specified otherwise in he design post.
And honestly, I probably should have given you a +1 at least to radar-guided missiles last time. You're getting a +2 this time to make up for that, instead of a +1 just based on experience.

Revision locked in, by the way.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Happerry

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2209
« Reply #249 on: May 21, 2017, 11:26:59 pm »

Radar EXP is Radar EXP. Personally I don't consider the superconducters very useful at this point. There's not really a lot we can do with them, we just don't have the base to support fancy things yet.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2209
« Reply #250 on: May 22, 2017, 12:23:54 am »

You were a bit overambitious with this revision. Revisions are revising one thing, and while that thing could potentially indirectly affect other aspects of a design or designs in general, it has to be that one thing. A design would be much more suited for something like this. (Maybe a bit more ambitious in the design, though.) I felt I was a bit generous in implementing features other than just radio-guidance, but that's at the cost of increased weight.
Revision: "Songbird Banshee" Radar-Guided Missile
2+2

Our new Songbird Banshee class of missile is a competent weapon that shall be promptly replacing all our existing missiles.
There were two parts to the project: guidance/accuracy, and lethality. Considering the demands of some of Amaok's design leads, we put priority on the former option.

The new missile includes a miniaturized radar guidance system providing it with an overview of nearby entities. All current and future vessels will emit a short-range IFF signal to prevent missiles locking onto friendly targets. The IFF signals are one-purpose and their short range makes them extremely easy to fit onto anything. A missile chooses the closest valid target and locks on.
The missile is still two stages. In the first stage, tiny reaction thrusters point it in the right direction with an integrated fuel supply while a short but high-power booster stage clears the missile from its launcher. In the second stage, a fuel tank is shared between correctional thrusters and a lower-powered propulsion thruster. Small fins are affixed to the missile's second stage, allowing for efficient atmospheric flight. The reaction and correctional thrusters allow a missile to acquire and manuever towards a target, but if the target is capable of competent evasive maneuvering or if the missile still isn't aimed in the rough direction of the target, a positive hit is unlikely.


We've developed an actually guided missile. It's able to acquire targets and maneuver towards them and is capable of atmospheric flight. It may not be able of completely changing course, acquiring new targets, and st but it keeps the same low destructive abilities of our other missiles, and has one other flaw: Size.
The Songbird Banshee is a large missile. We can only fit two Songbirds on an A-ASF-8 instead of its four unguided missiles. And since they retain the same destruction capabilities, Central Command isn't entirely sold on fitting our A-ASF-8s with Songbirds. Ultimately, it's your call in the strategy phase.

The Songbird Banshee is an effective weapon. Even if it doesn't pack a particularly explosive payload, its drastically increased ability to hit enemy targets could very well be worth it. 4 positive hits with a Songbird is better than 1 out of 4 positive hits with our standard variant.

This missile is considered a Design but does not require a Production Line to make. More substantial and even larger variants in the future could potentially be considered worthy of production lines, however.

"Songbird Banshee" Radar-Guided Missile: A missile variant that's twice as heavy and big as our standard missile. Uses radar guidance and two stages to acquire new targets. Has IFF functionality and targets the closest non-friendly radar entity. Can manuever in limited amounts, to the point where if the target isn't performing effective evasive maneuvers and the launcher is pointed at the target, it can reliably hit. Carries a low-yield destructive payload which can reliably breach unarmored spacecraft but isn't effective on the ground unless directly fired at a ground target. The first stage provides a boost and the second limited cruising, and fins allow it to work effectively in-atmosphere. Doesn't require a Production Line, but has to be assigned to missile-using designs.


It is now the Strategy Phase of 2209. In addition to the regular strategy orders, please also name your vessels. (Maybe not the A-ASF-8s)
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Strategy Phase 2209
« Reply #251 on: May 22, 2017, 12:53:42 am »

Squee, now my head is filled with thoughts of sweet little incorporeal red robins flying up to windows and WAILING WITH THE CHILL OF DEATH TO BRING AN ILL FATE TO ALL WHO HEAR!
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Happerry

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2209
« Reply #252 on: May 22, 2017, 03:51:52 am »

You were a bit overambitious with this revision.
To be fair, if you check up the preceding posts, you'll find that the 'just add radar already' vote was separate from the Songbird Banshee stuff because it was a lot of stuff, and the 'Just Add Radar Already' vote was for just focusing on the Radar without all the other fancy stuff.

Though personally I'm satisfied with what we got. I just really didn't think the Songbird would work out anywhere near so well...
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RAM

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Strategy Phase 2206
« Reply #253 on: May 22, 2017, 05:26:26 pm »

Operation Vulgar Lemming$
The core thread's first post says that we only have 8 production lines? The template hase 10 production line? ???
Quote from: Production Lines(prod)
Production Line 1: Interplanetary Transport Craft (2/3)
Production Line 2: Printed Pistol (Unlimited)
Production Line 3: X112 Space Suit (Unlimited)
Production Line 4: Kevlar Armor & Uniform (1/1)
Production Line 5: Venture-Class Combat Transport craft(1/1)
Production Line 6: Armoured Space Suit (1/1)
Production Line 7: ABR-1 "Juice Machine" rifle (4/4)
Production Line 8: A-ASF-8 "Cranial Surfer" shuttle (3/6)
Production Line 9: "Coffee Kettle" Radio (2/2)
Production Line 10:

Quote from: planetary surface units(plan)
Unit 1:"day shift"
Equipped:
X112 Space Suit
ABR-1 "Juice Machine" rifle
Printed Pistol
Location: A2

Unit 2:
Equipped:
X112 Space Suit
ABR-1 "Juice Machine" rifle
Printed Pistol
Location: C2

Unit 3: "night-shift"
Equipped:
Printed Pistol
Armoured Space Suit
Location: A2

Unit 4:
Equipped:
X112 Space Suit
ABR-1 "Juice Machine" rifle
Printed Pistol
Location: C2

Unit 5:
Equipped:
ABR-1 "Juice Machine" rifle
Printed Pistol
Kevlar Armor & Uniform
Location: B2

Quote from: Space operations(pace)
Interplanetary Transport Craft 1: A2
Unit 1:"day shift"
A-ASF-8 "Cranial Surfer" shuttle

Interplanetary Transport Craft 2: C2
Unit 2
ABR-1 "Juice Machine" rifle

Venture-Class Combat Transport craft: C2
A-ASF-8 "Cranial Surfer" shuttle
A-ASF-8 "Cranial Surfer" shuttle

Quote from: Strategy Votes
Prod
0 Vulgar Lemming$
Plan
0 Vulgar Lemming$
pace
0 Vulgar Lemming$
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Supreme Commander Nutcase

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Strategy Phase 2209
« Reply #254 on: May 23, 2017, 05:43:59 am »

Hmmmmm.... Should we go for superconductors next turn? From what I have read, it seems like a good idea because it will help us in the building of fusion reactors so we can build better weapons in the future.
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