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Author Topic: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Strategy Phase 2212  (Read 34738 times)

chubby2man

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #165 on: May 18, 2017, 07:18:50 pm »

Well that could have turned out better, but it could have been worse. I think a bigger transport will become a necessity, and we can add radar missiles to it to make it some what self- defending.

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Radar-Guided Missiles: (4) FallacyofUrist, Taricus, helmacon, chubby2man
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RAM

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #166 on: May 18, 2017, 07:49:25 pm »

Valiant Space Fighter
We compromised too much, but reversing those compromises is easy. We remove all of the armour fro the L.C.V., much of the structure, and focus on extremities to tolerate rotational stresses rather than surfaces that no longer need to deal with pressure resistance. We also depressurise the interior aside from the cockpit. This all saves us a load of weight, making the fuel last longer. Finally, we add two retractable stalks, top and bottom, which feature an anchor-point on the hull to affix a space-suit to and a mounted rifle(Though the rifling doesn't do much, for obvious reasons) with an ammunition feed and pressurised joints to inhibit small motions, making the gun-on-a-stick easier to effect small aiming adjustments at long range with.

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Radar-Guided Missiles: (3) FallacyofUrist, Taricus, helmacon
Heat-seeking missiles:
Valiant Space Fighter: 1 RAM

I am not convinced that we can get guidance on a revision. I am not convinced that we can get radar on a revision. I am not convincedthat we want radar anyway, s it relies on bounsing signals off, light is already slow enough when it only needs to travel one way... I.R. is also more useful on the ground at night, which has been troubling us. And we want visual guidance eventually anyway, and radar blips are more difficult to get a good pattern-recognition on so long-term they will be easier to fool.
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helmacon

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #167 on: May 18, 2017, 08:03:40 pm »

Laser guided then?
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chubby2man

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #168 on: May 18, 2017, 08:12:54 pm »


Quote
Radar-Guided Missiles: (3) FallacyofUrist, Taricus, helmacon
Heat-seeking missiles:
Valiant Space Fighter: 2 RAM, chubby2man
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Taricus

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #169 on: May 18, 2017, 08:13:51 pm »

Radar guided is good enough for the ranges we're engaging at e.g. planetary orbit. Laser guided would be more useful for launching stuff across the entire system. Besides, we'd have to make a laser and ensure that works too.
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RAM

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #170 on: May 18, 2017, 09:01:24 pm »

Laser guidance is useless. If you can hit them with a guidance laser then you can hit them with a fusion-charged death-beam of doom!!! But I guess that the laser-tech would help and it would be something for the initial phases. I'd still like to get some heat-vision for the ground-forces.
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Taricus

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #171 on: May 18, 2017, 09:04:29 pm »

And if we're going down the path of lasers we'll need the power source to operate those lasers optimally.
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RAM

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #172 on: May 18, 2017, 09:32:55 pm »

Which we already are in development of, as evidence by our first turn...

But, to put it onto perspective, radar-guidance relies upon signals being bounced off of the target, ideally from a known location. You could potentially hope that enough random signals are bouncing off of any given object, andthat will probably work I suppose, but it is just background levels, so your instruments would need to be sensitive... So your signal needs to go to them, then get back to you, then your projectile needs to reach them. Missiles I suppose can work around this, but signal dispersion over large distances is also an issue. That beam of radio you shoot at them is a pretty big deal at a couple of hundred kilometres, but give it a thousand and it is getting pretty dispersed, on account of being an arc, and thus any given size becomes less of the total area that the arc covers as the arc gets larger, lthus meaning less of a concentrated signal, and thus less power.

Lasers have the same problem. The laser goes to them, then goes back to you the missiles, then the missile needs to chase at its own speed, the time differential stacks up, especially if you replace missiles with lasers.

infra-red just looks for hot things to glow. You can hide by sitting in front of a star, but otherwise it is fairly difficult to throw off, especially if it is tuned to favour a known heat-output. But mostly it only needs to come to your and then you go to them, it skips the bit where you have to get a signal to them first in order to have it bounce off.

For reference, my calculations indicate(I do not know this stuff off-hand... and somehow wikipaedia doesn't have the radius of Earth where I looked...)
Radius of Earth:
 a little over two hundredths of a second.
Earth geostationary orbit:
 A little over a tenth of a second.
Earth to moon:
 1.3 seconds.
Sun to Earth:
 Over 8 minutes

If you are tryiing to use radar over interplanetary ranges, then you are adding minutes, if it works at all.
 Satellites will lose seconds, which could throw you off enough for them to evade somehow. Not realyl a deal with missiles, but with projectile weapons it is a problem, and it makes the missiles chase where the target was rather than where it is, which reduces efficiency.
Orbital craft could be all sorts of distances, but if it is coordinating with specific ground targets, don't be surprised if you are lose a tenth of a second or two.
IIf you are skimming the atmosphere, then yes, it is down to hundredths of a second, so you probably won't miss much, but it is still a hundredth of a second tht your enemy might use to beat you to the draw...

But mostly I want to revise heat tracking into night-vision and antipersonnel turrets, which radar tends to do poorly at...
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Taricus

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #173 on: May 18, 2017, 09:42:33 pm »

Honestly we don't need the turrets. As much as I do want autonomous weapon systems, an immobile unit is the worst way we could do it.

And again, given the ranges at which the missiles will be launched distance isn't too much of an issue.
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RAM

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #174 on: May 18, 2017, 10:36:46 pm »

What distances will the missiles mostly be used at? I am thinking "all ranges within lunar-scale" but perhaps you are thinking primarily of the ground-attack role?
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #175 on: May 18, 2017, 10:42:57 pm »

Radar-guided missiles tentatively locked in. I'll be posting the revision results soon, but will put it off if there's a tie or new consensus in the next ~1 hour.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Revision Phase 2208
« Reply #176 on: May 18, 2017, 11:38:38 pm »

Revision: Radar-Guided Missiles
1

Well, missiles and radar is apparently a hard combination. We developed a basic radar guidance system, but we've encountered some snags:
1.) Size. The system is huge - it has no reason to be, as radar isn't exactly a new technology.
2.) Friendly fire. Despite our best efforts, the system will lock onto our own ships. We've tried basic IFF systems, but it seems to be of no use. While unlikely to blow up our own ships as the missile wouldn't be able to execute a 180 degree turn, it completely eliminates any chance of contact with a target as it's almost like the missile is trying to get away from hostile ships.

So in short, the technology went nowhere. If we were to try again, we'd definitely have much more luck in this area thanks to our... experience. Or we could try something even better next time and not suffer nearly as much as we would before this project thanks to that mentioned experience. Or we could incorporate what we learned here into one of our later designs. At least our ASF-8's are still useful without guided missiles. Hopefully.

On the bright side, those Moerth scientists couldn't have done anything useful this year. Worst case scenario, they even the playing field. It just may take a bit more of that Amaok genius tactics than usual this year while we find better, less horribly unlucky ways to pursue our talents. Years like this are bound to happen, but Amaok won't be brought down by them!


It is now the Strategy Phase of 2208.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Taricus

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Strategy Phase 2206
« Reply #177 on: May 18, 2017, 11:59:57 pm »

Plan: Q-ship time!
Spoiler: Production Lines (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Units (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Transports (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Strategy Votes
Q-Ship time! (1): Taricus
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VoidSlayer

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Strategy Phase 2208
« Reply #178 on: May 19, 2017, 01:00:16 am »

Might be crappy but at least we got a lot of them.

RAM

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Amaok, Strategy Phase 2208
« Reply #179 on: May 19, 2017, 01:10:36 am »

Wha? We actually sent our armoured space-suits to the barren desert wasteland instead of the delicious water-world? there was a reason why my plan attacked that side...

I propose that we try to run the blockade...

Pipers of Hades
Code: [Select]
Interplanetary Transport Craft 1: C2
1x ABR-1
2x A-ASF-8
Interplanetary Transport Craft 2: C3
1x A-ASF-8
Interplanetary Transport Craft 3: B2
1x ABR-1
3x A-ASF-8
We try to get TC2 to run interferency wile the ground forces hammer finish of f the last of them. TC1 flies past in the confusion to resupply C2.


Quote
Prod: uction
2 Q-ship: Taricus, RAM
Plan: ets
2 Q-ship: Taricus, RAM
pace: S_
1 Q-ship: Taricus
1 Pipes of Hades: RAM
 
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Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
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