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Author Topic: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Strategy Phase 2212  (Read 38346 times)

Nirur Torir

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Strategy Phase 2209
« Reply #240 on: May 23, 2017, 07:54:11 pm »

The GM made a confusing typo. We have two units on B2, and only one on A2.
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Strategy Phase 2209
« Reply #241 on: May 23, 2017, 09:12:49 pm »

Solar panels?

That's extremely underwhelming. So, for next turn, orbital shipyard. I'm going to grab my earlier proposal and bring it here for later. I think I'm going to simplify it as well.

Yggdrasil SS-01A
Built entirely in space, this revolutionary new structure is basically a free-falling warehouse and factory with 4 arm-like structures. Two of them are docking areas, comprising a place for an ITC/IMW/Iliad to dock and load/unload crew, goods, weaponry, or ammunition. The other two are construction yards, capable of building or refitting/repairing one ship at a time or being used as more docking space. It is to be locked in a geosynchronous orbit over an empty part of one of Moerth's landmass(es). Everything needed to build spaceships, and almost everything meant to travel on them, will first go to this station.

Any particular reason for the lack of thrusters? I think it would make things more complicated, not less.
I propose these changes, and added a line about building it ready to make more Iliads.
Quote
Yggdrasil Station
Built entirely in space, this revolutionary new structure is a warehouse and factory with 4 arm-like structures. Two of them are docking areas, comprising a place for a ship to dock and load/unload crew, goods, weaponry, ammunition, or fuel. The other two are construction yards, capable of building, refitting, or repairing one ship at a time or being used as more docking space. The central hub has storage areas, crew amenities, shuttle bays, and a small array of thrusters. It is to be locked in a geosynchronous orbit over Moerth's capital, a bright star ever shining in the sky.

It should be constructed ready to build and service more Iliad-Class vessels.
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Madman198237

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Strategy Phase 2209
« Reply #242 on: May 23, 2017, 09:21:32 pm »

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU IDIOT!


You don't park a grand-new space station in orbit over your PRIMARY POPULATION CENTER!

There's a DARN GOOD REASON it's placed over an EMPTY DESERT. It partly for the magnetic accelerator style supply method I hope to use, and partly because if it comes hurtling down in the middle of a wasteland, it probably won't kill off our entire population.

The basic crew accommodations are implied.

Quote from: Yggdrasil
Yggdrasil SS-01A
Built entirely in space, this revolutionary new structure is basically a free-falling warehouse and factory with 4 arm-like structures. Two of them are docking areas, comprising a place for a spacecraft to dock and load/unload crew, goods, weaponry, or ammunition. The other two are construction yards, capable of building or refitting/repairing one ship at a time or being used as more docking space. It is to be locked in a geosynchronous orbit over an empty part of one of Moerth's landmass(es). Everything needed to build spaceships, and almost everything meant to travel on them, will first go to this station. Shuttles from the surface dock next to the roots of the arms, in small bays made specifically for the ease of loading and unloading cargo and people. There are basic crew amenities in the central section. It has a few emergency course-correction thrusters scattered evenly around its surface. If its orbit threatens the population below, it is to be corrected immediately. If it cannot be corrected, there are hundreds of contingency plans for an emergency evacuation from the station, which will then make an escape from the planet or, if that is not possible, a descent into the atmosphere in such a way that the wreckage hits in the middle of an empty area, and all possible debris falls away from populated centers.

It is meant to be capable of building ships about half again the size of the Iliad to give room to improve.

Here's what I'll go with. I agree with mentioning a specific shuttle bay. I should've realized that that would be necessary.
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Strategy Phase 2209
« Reply #243 on: May 23, 2017, 09:28:28 pm »

Naw, I'm pretty sure it's safe.

If it de-orbits, it should be slowed enough that the atmosphere slows it enough to hit something less important. (And de-orbiting only happens by changing speed, so it loses its geosynchronous orbit anyway.)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 09:32:07 pm by Nirur Torir »
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Shadowclaw777

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Strategy Phase 2209
« Reply #244 on: May 23, 2017, 09:53:01 pm »

Okay I think I catch back on with that entire fission, biology, and whether or not, our stuff can actually be true. I mean with the ability that Chiefwaffles, already confirming that psionics are indeed possible research path pretty much making this sci-fi away from the "true" realm of science.

I still think research into bio-engineering, even research into utilizing our research for genetic printing is a bad idea, hear me out. For example you refer to "regenerating hulls". I mean you could make the argument that silicon could work but carbon-based armor would not be able to resist any hits when compared to raw steel/titanium, at least at the first tier we would be developing; and I don't even know if the materiel could handle the vacuum of space, regenerating nano-bots just do the job better. Also things like regenerating limbs and stronger/tougher soldiers through genetic manipulation research as moderate-late options, would be too much for research investment and little payoff. Something like psionics, I'm trying to keep the "purist theme" here like the psionics in Stellaris and other sci-fi fiction, instead of the psionic overlords who genetically manipulate their servants, aka the Ethereals. Psionics will provide many ridiculous advantages, but that what you expect from a really late-game development. Anyways, while Orbital Shipyards sound nice and all since it improves the ability to construct and build larger ships, I still think research into Fission engines are the next design we want to do. Either Nuclear Thermal Engine or Fission-Fragment, with fission fragment being more costly but also provide to ship's power research. Besides leading us research into interstellar nukes, this will lead us into research into fusion (promise we are not going to develop working fusion reactors by next turn) research, which will help with items that are intensive-energy drains like lasers, shields, and even improved communication/detection systems. I want to state we aren't researching fission engines primarily to get nukes in the future turn or a better power source, but to have a much more powerful engine for our ships when compared to chemical thrusters.

I'm not saying research into bio-engineering is useless, but I'm pretty sure were going to need to spend an entire action on "Genome Sequencing", and no one wants to do that. We need immediate advantages that also provide long-term research opportunities, like the research into theoretical physics. It seems like all positives for the research into the fields of nuclear energy, and no I don't want to go the route of nuclear annihilation but instead research of nuclear energy since it will provide many future benefits, as well.

Edit: Okay after future evaluation from the posts I missed out on, I am fine with bio-engineering and the ability for our printer to build organic materiel, i.e. silicon and carbon.  But of course their should be an extend of moderation, since we advance too far into genetics than effectively have altered the human race into a completely different subset of unrecognizable humans, where psionics are less attractive. Research into "Genome Sequencing" aka the stepping stone tech for bio-engineering, should at one point be researched if we do want intensive genetic/sociological research. Also for the point for Shipyards, I understand that even constructing a simple Orbital Shipyard, will allow us to build two Illiads, which seems attractive but that can done on a future turn. However, research into a different source like improving a engines/reactors is really going to be vital in the future, things like thruster velocity/maneuveriability are always nice to have as well improving our production of energy is crucial for developed extremely sophisticated designs. This design is simple and widely-applicable, chemical engines into fission engines , is way easier for example when compared to the transition of fusion into anti-matter.

How this an idea for our next research phase: Orbital Shipyard/or/Some type of Fission Engine for design; and Genetic Printing for revision?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 12:36:02 am by Shadowclaw777 »
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Strategy Phase 2209
« Reply #245 on: May 24, 2017, 03:02:46 am »

but carbon-based armor would not be able to resist any hits when compared to raw steel/titanium,
Hey. You know what, aside from life, is made from carbon? Carbon nanotubes (it's in the name). Graphene. Diamonds.
Yes, you don't really want to build spaceship armour from diamonds- you don't want hard, you want tough. But the point is, carbon is one of the most versatile elements that exists. Using a bit of ~sci-fi bullshit~ we could absolutely make carbon spaceship armour that is not just as good as, but better than steel/titanium.

Anyway, I have no problems with an orbital shipyard next turn, assuming the Iliad proves to be useful this one.
And if people really don't want to even consider going down a more biological route, then fine, we can be boring and go for nuclear.
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Detoxicated

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Strategy Phase 2209
« Reply #246 on: May 24, 2017, 04:15:41 am »

Im for psionics so bio tech is cool for me. Though i feel we should go for genetic Research in general First before going for bioprinting.
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Madman198237

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Strategy Phase 2209
« Reply #247 on: May 24, 2017, 02:16:00 pm »

Better idea: We use our fancy printers and miniaturize what they can do. It'd take a design, but we could conceivably SCI-FI and then add a bit of LOGIC and come out with an atomic printer. A printer capable of printing at the atomic level, and thus making nanobots. Non-self-replicating, obviously, but capable of doing basic tasks like repairs. It'd take a lot of nanobots, but we could just flood the hull with the cheap plastic integrated-circuitry-things and boom, instant self repair. Requires a modest stockpile of materials.

Then we can move on to nanobots capable of disassembly weaponry matching uploaded schematics. As in, nanobots that can be programmed to disable or destroy their ships, their rifles. Nanobots scattered on the ground, in space, in the air. Waiting for signals to deactivate (Move to central location, turn off, etc.), or self-destruct (Miniature fireworks, YAY!)
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Draignean

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Strategy Phase 2209
« Reply #248 on: May 24, 2017, 02:22:18 pm »

I would not be averse to Programmable Materials/Smart Matter. Nanobots would essentially enable us to get to living materials via a wholly mechanical solution, and would enable us to do 3D printing on a whole new level.

Be very nice if we want to build ship-scale autoforges later, so we can efficiently store large cubes of material (Plastic/Steel/Copper/Etc) and manufacture ammunition/Fighters/Drones on the fly for our vessels.



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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Combat Phase 2210
« Reply #249 on: May 24, 2017, 08:31:23 pm »

I feel like I forgot something this report, so please let me know if it turns out I accidently posted an entire paragraph about Amaok's secret black hole project. (That's not a real thing)
And yes, that typo in the design for the Iliad-Class was about Amaok's new ship. But that's definitely the only time I've made a mistake like that. Definitely.
Combat Phase of 2210



Instead of the orbit of B2 like last year, orbital combat was present at C2, where we sent the MSS Iliad. And in what was definitely not a coincidence, C2 was also the location of a new Amaokian ship.
MOERTH CENTRAL COMMAND
RADIO RECEIVER TRANSCRIPT: ORBITAL BATTLE OF C2

- Command, MSS Iliad reporting. We have sightings of an unidentified vessel on the radar scope. Changing orbit to intercept course with vessel and sounding general quarters.
- Command, MSS Iliad has visual contact with unidentified vessel. It's Amaokian, but it doesn't match anything on records. Current angle of missile pods to Amaokian vessel is unviable, and we're changing our heading to reach valid firing angles.
- Command, MSS Iliad has sighted two Amaokian fighters, one visual and one radar - behind the bigger ship. Looks like they were deployed from the vessel sighted earlier. Hang on - getting reports of incoming missiles.
- Command, MSS Iliad has been hit by both Amaokian missiles in a volley of two from a fighter craft. Hull breaches confirmed, but no vital systems have been hit, overall integrity is still positive, and all impacted systems have been shunted to redundant electronics. No confirmed casualties.
- Command, MSS Iliad has confirmed destruction of one Amaokian fighter craft. First missile volley missed due to poor firing angle, but next volley had one missile impact and destroy a returning fighter craft - likely the same craft that had fired missiles earlier.
- Command, MSS Iliad has confirmed the destruction of the second and final Amaokian fighter craft, but we are bracing for impact from a two-missile volley fired moments before fighter destruction.
- Command, MSS Iliad has suffered damage in the weapons bay. Six dead, two wounded. Redundant system shunting is confirmed and overall integrity remains positive, but we have lost operation of the weapons bay. Two Amaokian missiles hit the weapons bay head-on, destroying armor and causing a severe breach. We will compile a comprehensive report of what we can see of the Amaokian craft before returning to Moerth for repairs and refitting.


The MSS Iliad confirmed destruction of two Amaokian fighters - the same type our soldiers on the ground at B2 saw last year - before being forced to return due to damage in the weapons bay. From compiled reports, it would appear that the Amaokian vessel left as well, as it likely ran out of fighters. So it would appear that Amaok has developed a primitive carrier. Without any combat-oriented ship in the area, the orbit around C2 remained clear of hostiles and both Amaok and Moerth ITCs unloaded supplies this year.

In her report of the aftermath, the Iliad's Captain stated that the poor turning speed (and speed in general) as well as having all the missile pods in the same area were of notable concern during the battle. If the Iliad could manuever faster or just generally had viable firing angles sooner, then they could have eliminated the fighters and carrier before further damage is caused.
The Orbital Zone of C2 is now Conflicted.


Planetside at the oceans of C2, our forces aren't as well-equipped as we'd prefer. Only one Unit out of the two stationed on C2 have access to Bolters, with the rest being left with Mk 1.1 Printed Pistols. The remnants of the Amaokian Unit on C2 rally at the landing sites where they reinforce and re-equip with Amaokian battle rifles. From scattered reports, we can conclude that another Amaok Unit as well as enough battle rifles for two Units has been sent to C2.

Our Commander chose to hold his ground and allow Amaok to slaughter themselves on our shores, but that decision proved to be fatal. On the few larger islands of C2, Amaok sends two-pronged invasion forces. First, we're harassed by Marksmen on the standard-issue rafts. They harass and shoot at our sentries at defending forces at long range and we're forced to bring our bolters to deal with them. At such long ranges, our bolts are still quite inaccurate but the occasional hit always sinks the raft thanks to the bolts' explosive power.
But when our troops are preoccupied with Amaokian marksmen, the rest of their soldiers land on the shores where they can engage us on the island from primarily long and medium range using their battle rifles. Eventually, our soldiers are overrun and forced to retreat.

Yet in the rest of the planet on the small islands, we prevail. Even with only half of our soldiers holding Bolters, we retain a decisive advantage at close range. Their floating marksmen can only do so much damage before being sunk and regardless of what they do, they're forced to engage at close-range on the shores where our Printed Pistol Mk 1.1s and Advanced Bolters easily beat their basic Printed Pistols.

Ultimately, Amaok gains ground. But to advance any further they have to begin conquering the small islands - a nearly impossible task for them at this point. And to advance, we have to invade their positions while they're equipped with plenty of long-range rifles that can easily snipe our soldiers before they even land. Without any changes, no change in territory will occur next year.

Our Commander really wants some kind of aquatic vehicle. It would do wonders on C2 and anywhere else there's water.
Amaok has gained ground at C2. [M: 2/3, A: 1/3]


At B2, we continue advancing. The Amaokian troops are left without any reinforcements or new equipment and we continue outnumbering and out gunning them.

Their long-range advantages are somewhat mollified by our Advanced Bolters, and our short-range advantage grows stronger. We're still harassed by hidden Amaokian snipers, but they're simply throwing rocks at an avalanche. Our suicide charges have been phased out with the new advanced bolters, and instead we can just force their snipers out of their cover with suppressing fire then advance into medium range.
With each passing day, we start gaining ground. Our troops admire the beauty of new parts of the continent as the fighting starts moving beyond the years-old battle lines.

We finally gain ground at B2. Amaok's forces are on the run and if nothing changes, we'll continue stomping them out. Our Commander here is happy with what they have here and anything you come up with in the future.
Moerth has gained ground at B2. [M: 2/3, A: 1/3]


At A3 and C3, we can see from afar civilian vessels ferrying people and construction materials between Amaok and A3 + C3. Surely by this point they can begin extracting resources.
Amaok has gained access to the resources at A3 and C3.


The barren landscapes of A2 prove problematic for our now-outnumbered soldiers. Even the advanced-bolters don't fix that.

Our convoys are constantly under assault by Amaokian snipers, our camps are always harassed by snipers. We can't move forward without snipers! At least we can see them, but our long-range bolter fire only does so much. Eventually, they start learning to simply hide behind thicker cover and not panic from our suppressing bolter fire. The occasional Amaokian sniper killed by bolt isn't enough.

At close range our advantage is nullified by their numbers and their armoured suits which still help somewhat against our nonexplosive close-range bolts and Mk 1.1 Printed Pistols. Eventually we're forced to retreat to places where their snipers are less effective, such as caves and enclosed rock formations. But without any changes, it's only a matter of time before they eliminate the rest of our troops.

Our Commander is requesting some kind of defensive design to protect against Amaokian snipers here. Countering it with long-range fire of our own could work, but may not be as effective as nullifying the advantage entirely.
Amaok has gained ground at A2. [M: 0/3, A: 3/3]



Spoiler: Moerth Designs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Map (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Production Lines (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Units (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Ships (click to show/hide)

It is now the design phase of 2210.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Madman198237

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #250 on: May 24, 2017, 08:48:05 pm »

OK, are they tracking us or making similar decisions? Regardless, I suppose it doesn't matter. I want to carry on developing that orbital station and construction yard. The ability to deploy two Iliads would make their inability to maneuver a non-issue. One of them can be maneuvering while the other is firing.

Yggdrasil SS-01A
Built entirely in space, this revolutionary new structure is basically a free-falling warehouse and factory with 4 arm-like structures. Two of them are docking areas, comprising a place for a spacecraft to dock and load/unload crew, goods, weaponry, or ammunition. The other two are construction yards, capable of building or refitting/repairing one ship at a time or being used as more docking space. It is to be locked in a geosynchronous orbit over an empty part of one of Moerth's landmass(es). Everything needed to build spaceships, and almost everything meant to travel on them, will first go to this station. Shuttles from the surface dock next to the roots of the arms, in small bays made specifically for the ease of loading and unloading cargo and people. There are basic crew amenities in the central section. It has a few emergency course-correction thrusters scattered evenly around its surface. If its orbit threatens the population below, it is to be corrected immediately. If it cannot be corrected, there are hundreds of contingency plans for an emergency evacuation from the station, which will then make an escape from the planet or, if that is not possible, a descent into the atmosphere in such a way that the wreckage hits in the middle of an empty area, and all possible debris falls away from populated centers.

It is meant to be capable of building ships about half again the size of the Iliad to give room to improve.


Quote
Yggdrasil: (1) Madman198237
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #251 on: May 24, 2017, 08:48:31 pm »

Heh.

Our destroyer has as many missiles in a volley as their carrier's fighter compliment does.

It looks like they revised their rifles for better sniping, and designed an infrastructure/theoretical thing.


I'm less certain about using our design action for that shipyard. We need more stuff at A2 and C2, and could revise the Iliad to be cheaper and have better engines.
It's tempting to invent behind-the-lines battlefield printers and pre-fab fortifications, but I don't know how well 1 CU of structure printers would work .. Might work with our Akhsoyrtam Printers, but we'd probably need to hold the lines for a turn to get much from that.
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Madman198237

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #252 on: May 24, 2017, 08:53:54 pm »

As it stands, can the Iliad bombard from space, or enter atmosphere and do the same?

Also, please remember that they're going to be deploying more of these things soon. I guarantee they'll be designing a better carrier to get the best of us. I think that putting a space station capable of refitting and constructing vessels would be an infinitely large advantage right now. For the revision, we get the Iliad better engines.
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We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2210
« Reply #253 on: May 24, 2017, 09:00:58 pm »

Their rifles are actually as effective at sniping before, I just put a bit more emphasis on how they're using their long-range advantage this update.

The Iliad can use their missiles on planetside targets, but the missiles effectively turn into dropped bombs once they hit the atmosphere. Their structure and propulsion isn't designed for the atmosphere, and their ability to change course is already very limited. This plus the need for precision given their low yield makes them not particularly useful for bombardment. And no, the Iliad most certainly cannot enter the atmosphere. You'd have to design a ship specifically for atmospheric entry to do that.

Also of note is that your forces on A2 had sightings of one of their fighters descending from the upper atmosphere and firing a missile at some of their fortifications. The missile wasn't particularly explosive but it was remarkably agile and precise. The fighter continued to glide down behind enemy lines. Overall, the event didn't do much direct damage at the time but did somewhat distract your troops.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Nirur Torir

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2209
« Reply #254 on: May 24, 2017, 09:11:31 pm »

Quote
And no, the Iliad most certainly cannot enter the atmosphere
Welp, guess we're sending them to A2 this turn. No pesky atmosphere there!

We almost managed to streamline the production enough to the point of production in-orbit, but it ultimately proved to be too expensive and lengthy to do that. Consequently, we can still only field 1x Iliad-Class Destroyer at a time. But the production process is streamlined enough that with just a bit of dedicated effort, perhaps we could increase the amount fielded.

Fine, I suppose it's needed, and we can shuffle troops around to deal with things. If we're designing a shipyard this turn then I see no reason not to include Iliad construction readiness as part of the design.

Quote
Yggdrasil: (1) Madman198237
Yggdrasil prepped for Iliad construction: (1) Nirur Torir
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 09:20:40 pm by Nirur Torir »
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