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Author Topic: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Strategy Phase 2212  (Read 38481 times)

Nirur Torir

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2211
« Reply #360 on: June 03, 2017, 01:37:27 pm »

Artillery would be pretty nice, especially if they're given anti-infantry munitions. It would help us clear A1 quickly.

Right now I slightly prefer high agility ship missiles, to be sure we can take two orbits, but good rolls on the Crane would free us up there.
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Madman198237

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2211
« Reply #361 on: June 03, 2017, 01:45:20 pm »

No, these are the antimissile missile turrets. We deploy THOSE successfully, we'll be the undisputed rulers of space for a turn or more.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2211
« Reply #362 on: June 03, 2017, 02:33:14 pm »

You're assuming 100% effectiveness on a secondary feature.
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Madman198237

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2211
« Reply #363 on: June 03, 2017, 03:22:32 pm »

No. If we get even 25% effectiveness those turrets will still allow our ships to resist 1 out of every 4 missiles. Add two to an Iliad and suddenly half their fighters' firepower is useless.

But we could mix in an upgrade into our revision. Or, heck, design the things in a revision if they fail to be constructed at all.
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2211
« Reply #364 on: June 03, 2017, 03:33:21 pm »

I don't think you did the math right...

Sidestepping that, if we roll great so that the turrets work well and we get at least two Cranes, then we probably don't need to double-down on space strength and can go for more land dominance to give their A1 units a special surprise. If rolls don't go so well, then I think being able to reliably kill two fighters with one Iliad volley, even when flanked, is probably a better investment than experimental PD.
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Draignean

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2211
« Reply #365 on: June 03, 2017, 08:54:40 pm »

I don't think you did the math right...

Sidestepping that, if we roll great so that the turrets work well and we get at least two Cranes, then we probably don't need to double-down on space strength and can go for more land dominance to give their A1 units a special surprise. If rolls don't go so well, then I think being able to reliably kill two fighters with one Iliad volley, even when flanked, is probably a better investment than experimental PD.

His math is a close enough approximation.  If a given PD turret has a 25% chance to shoot down any one missile, then the odds of two PD turrets failing to shoot down a missile is 0.75**2 (~56%), thus each missile has 56% chance of making it to the hull.

However, I would much rather put a revision into improving our chemical thrust fuel. While we can use dusty plasma beds and similar for long range propulsion, the low specific impulse means we're likely going to be reliant on chemical thrusters for maneuvering for a fair bit. Improving chemical thrusters increases evasion, all missile speeds, and all missile ranges. One of the critiques of our original missile revision was...
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The new missiles can evaluate multiple targets and choose the most viable targets based on availability, speed, known statistics, and more, but it can't necessarily get there.

So, we revise our fuels and we can get our missiles on point at longer range and from worse positions. To that end I propose...

Infernium-6 (Upgraded Chemical Thrusters)
Infernium-6, also known more simply as I6, is a new superfuel developed on the Moerth orbital station. In appearance it is a fine, glittering powder of dull red color, and is safe to handle assuming you are not carrying a static charge. The red, crystalline appearance of Infernium-6 is due to the presence of red oxygen, a form of O8 achieved at high pressures. A few proprietary Moerthian innovations in a crystalline chemical structure allow the Red Oxygen to be bonded into a macrostructure capable of containing it at room temperature, as long as the matrix isn't subject to any particularly energetic reactions.

Infernium-6, being primarily solid oxygen, is the most efficient oxidizing element we have, surpassing pure liquid oxygen due to its compressed crystalline structure. By introducing it into our existing fuel blends we're able to dramatically improve thrust and burn lifetime while preserving original weights and operational profiles.




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Nirur Torir

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2211
« Reply #366 on: June 03, 2017, 09:06:42 pm »

Rather bad wording on my part. I think our turrets will either be at "We can't hit missiles with those." or "We usually hit their missiles with those."

I was under the impression that our missiles "can't necessarily get there" because they have terrible maneuverability, not because they're too short ranged or slow.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2211
« Reply #367 on: June 03, 2017, 10:30:38 pm »

Design: Crane Transport
2, 6+1, 5

The Crane Transport is essentially a flying warehouse.
The ITC was an inefficient cargo ship - it was meant to carry basic supplies and people, not a military. The ship is divided into small compartments making storage of actual bulk goods or larger items impossible. But we had an easy way to remedy this, and we removed the compartments.

There are two primary parts to the Crane Transport, the bridge and crew quarters, and the cargo bay. The cargo bay is a huge compartment spanning most of the ship and is a vast empty space with the occasional support structure dotting the chamber. In order to prevent unfeasible stress on the life support and power systems, the cargo bay isn't pressurized. The lack of pressurization means the transport of Units or anything else requiring an atmosphere is impossible.
When the time comes for unloading, the crew suits up in EVA suits to load the cargo onto a larger variant of the shuttle used in the ITC. The shuttles moving goods between the surface and the ship are the bottleneck here, and the Crane Transport can't move anything above 2 CU between itself and the surface. It can carry things bigger than that without a problem, just not move those things to/from the surface.
The Crane Transport uses a series of chemical thrusters and solar panels. Without the draw from the cargo bay, powering the ship is easily accomplished via solar panels. The chemical thrusters intentionally provide just enough thrust with just enough fuel to reasonably move the ship between planets, but the ship doesn't have a high enough acceleration to be able to retreat or perform evasive maneuvers in combat.

The cargo bay, due to its design, can carry 6 CU worth of cargo. It has no individual weight/size restrictions - as long as all the cargo sums up to less than 6 CU and doesn't need an atmosphere, it can carry it. However, the fact that its crew has to perform the loading and unloading by hand in EVA suits means it takes a long time to load and unload. Loading isn't really a problem as long as its from Moerth, but when unloading it can make the vessel vulnerable to attack while it completes its lengthy unloading procedures.

Yet again, we were unable to incorporate the Buckler PD turret into the design. Our engineers have spent most of their time preoccupied with other issues in the design and thus weren't able to ever realize this design goal. We do know it's possible, but we still don't have anything to show for it.


Despite the large nature of the ship, thanks to some smart design decisions as well as the Yggdrasil SS-01A, we can deploy 4x Crane Transports at once. A very impressive number.


Crane Transport: A large ship capable of holding 6 CU with no individual CU limits. Because of its unpressurized cargo bay, it can't carry Units or anything else that may need an atmosphere to be transported. Small docked shuttles are used to transport cargo between the ship and the surface, but the restrictions of the shuttles mean that the Crane Transport cannot load or unload anything above 2 CU. It can still carry things above 2 CU, it just can't load or unload them. The crew manually unloads and loads cargo using EVA suits in the cargo bay, making loading and unloading a very lengthy process during which the ship is vulnerable. Powered by solar panels, and uses chemical thrusters; the ship is slow and performs poorly in this area in combat, but can move between planets without an issue.
Cargo: 6 CU
Expense: 4x
Resources: Metal, Exotics


It is now the Revision Phase of 2211.
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2211
« Reply #368 on: June 03, 2017, 11:06:54 pm »

Well. Uh. I guess I wanted decoy ships. Or we could just fill one with 6 CU worth of explosives and crash it into A2. Probably want to save 3 in case we roll well for cheap tanks.

...

Mk 4 Firedance Missile
The Firedance is a high maneuverability missile class designed primarily for use against Amaok fightercraft, using the guidance systems from our Missile Pods Mk 3. They should be able to fly circles around an Iliad, finally nullifying our aiming problem. Given their capabilities, they should even be able to shoot down enemy missiles, at least some of the time. The missile should be atmosphere-capable.

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Mk 4 Firedance Missile (1): Nirur Torir
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2211
« Reply #369 on: June 04, 2017, 02:19:38 am »

Hmm. Question: can it carry resources? I'm assuming no, but just to confirm.

Anyway, I'm going to propose something our infantry can use to get a leg up over the enemy. As it stands, if we move 2 units to A1, I'm not sure they would actually beat their two units.

Ouroboros Artillery: This is essentially just a scaled up Jormungandr Bolter; about three times as large, it is transported by a simple wheeled carriage, and set up by deploying stands and planting it in the ground. The missiles, with three times the diameter, naturally have a substantially increased range, easily striking enemy positions at extreme distances, potentially even beyond visual range (which would require spotters to be effective).
The weapon is not expected to be especially accurate, but hopefully the larger payload and extreme range will allow it to still cause reasonable amounts of damage, especially to large targets like enemy encampments.
If we happen to end up with extra time, we can try to improve the missiles accuracy, since we can afford to use more advanced sensors in the larger and less-plentiful ammunition of the Ouroboros than we could in the rapid-firing Jormugandr.

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Mk 4 Firedance Missile (1): Nirur Torir
Ouroboros Artillery: (1) NUKE9.13
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10ebbor10

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2211
« Reply #370 on: June 04, 2017, 03:05:48 am »

Why would it not be able to carry resources?

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As it stands, if we move 2 units to A1, I'm not sure they would actually beat their two units.

Pretty sure they don't have 2 units at A1
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2211
« Reply #371 on: June 04, 2017, 03:09:10 am »

Why would it not be able to carry resources?
Because resources take up 3 CU. The shuttles can only carry 2 CU. It might be able to carry them, if they can be divided over multiple shuttles, which does make sense in a way, but it is also possible that Chief says no, you need bigger shuttles to carry resources.

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Pretty sure they don't have 2 units at A1
Then where have their units gone? They have 1 on C2, B2, and A2. There are two units missing.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2211
« Reply #372 on: June 04, 2017, 03:18:45 am »

Anyway, here's my proposal.

Mk 4 Aetos Missile

The Mk4 Aetos missile is equipped with high density, and fairly energetic propellants. This gives it a far greater delta-v budget, which it can use to increase speed and range. This gives it far greater maneuvering capacities, allowing it to be fired at distant targets without needing to be pointed at it at point-blank.

I dislike Nirur's missile because it doesn't deal with all our missiles flaws, focusing too much on defense.

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Just like last year, the limited firing angles of the Iliad-Class's missiles combined with the ship's lack of mobility severely hurt our combat performance.

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If the Aeneid was equipped with a longer-ranged missile, it could intercept shuttles with the missiles without being forced to attempt to directly intercept the shuttle

We don't need a short ranged point defense missile. Our ships can already tank the hits and destroy the enemy fightercraft without trouble. I think it's better if we improve our capabilities to blow up the enemy at range, and to target their carriers.
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Design Phase 2209
« Reply #373 on: June 04, 2017, 06:56:32 am »

Looking back, I can't actually find Chief saying that maneuverability being our major problem. Huh.

I did find this. We'll want to revise our Iliad sensors next year if we go with the Aetos. That might not really be a problem, since building tanks will take up our last production line slot.
Iliad-Class Destroyer: A vessel a bit larger than the ITC equipped with 4 missile pods (1 missile each) and 48 missiles. The missile pods have a firing angle of 30 degrees in front of the ship. Reinforced hull along with redundant printed electronics radically increase the ship's survivability, guaranteeing the ability to "tank" at least one low-yield missile in a spot, with another partially crippling (or destroying it) if in the same spot, and if a 3rd missile impacts the same site, the ship will be destroyed. Inefficient and buggy chemical thrusters make the Iliad-Class slower than the already-slow ITC. A long-range radio allows for sending and receiving of basic messages to and from Moerth as well as relaying messages to and from ground forces on the orbited planet. A radar suite has only the practical range of human eyesight, but is always-on, reliable, and constantly scanning the entire proximity around the ship.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Planetary Arms Race - Moerth, Revision Phase 2211
« Reply #374 on: June 04, 2017, 07:36:06 am »

You're probably referring to the design description.

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However, the missile retains the same mediocre maneuvering and propulsion systems as its predecessor and thus is still notably inaccurate and has very limited maneuvering, meaning it still must be pointed at the target in order to have a chance of hitting.
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